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Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
Ali wrote:Mikkamakka wrote:Common sense, Ali. You know, that something other people use. Believe me, nobody on Earth would sign over a million dollar worth property for nothing, just to see Axl smile. Except you, maybe.
I have common sense, but I think the problem is your definition of common sense is tantamount to presumptions that suit your pre-existing notions of how this situation unfolded. You say Axl surely knew that dirty tricks were used by Big FD to get Slash/Duff to sign over the name. Unless there is some recording or paper trail where he gives explicit instructions to try and coerce Slash/Duff into signing over the name, or he was actually in the room when it happened (which we know is not the case), then you have bases to say he SURELY knew. Is it possible he knew? It's possible. Is it a certainty as you claim? Absolutely not. IMO, that is a more reasoned assessment than what you stated.
Ali
I love when people make a conscious effort to sound smarter than they are by using ridiclous vocabulary. Ali we're on a Gn'R message board, not a court room. Seriously drop the act already. You know how I know it's an act? Cause you'd never talk that way in real life to any of us. I've never seen anyone buy into their own online persona like you do. The more people suggesed you act like Gn'R's attourney the more you play it up. It's so fucking weird.
You know what's so asinine about this post? You don't know me. You don't know how smart I am or am not and you don't know how I talk in real life because, again, you don't know me at all. And yet, you're writing about me trying to sound smarter than I am and how I would talk in real life.
Please don't presume to know me because you don't.
Ali
Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
Ali wrote:Mikkamakka wrote:Common sense, Ali. You know, that something other people use. Believe me, nobody on Earth would sign over a million dollar worth property for nothing, just to see Axl smile. Except you, maybe.
I have common sense, but I think the problem is your definition of common sense is tantamount to presumptions that suit your pre-existing notions of how this situation unfolded. You say Axl surely knew that dirty tricks were used by Big FD to get Slash/Duff to sign over the name. Unless there is some recording or paper trail where he gives explicit instructions to try and coerce Slash/Duff into signing over the name, or he was actually in the room when it happened (which we know is not the case), then you have bases to say he SURELY knew. Is it possible he knew? It's possible. Is it a certainty as you claim? Absolutely not. IMO, that is a more reasoned assessment than what you stated.
Ali
Does it matter if he knew? He clearly had no issues invoking the clause.
It doesn't change the ultimate outcome, but when you're talking about what someone did or didn't know, I think there should at least be some basis for that.
Anyway, it's kinda funny to see someone be so emphatic about what happened or how it happened when Duff said this on the Opie & Anthony show after his book came out:
Opie & Anthony: Did he [Axl] really come to you and Slash and wanted you to sign paper before you went on stage.
Duff McKagan: No no no. I hope that part of the book is clear. In that part of our group, I don't think there was any connection between management and the band and all of that stuff. I do think people thought Slash and I were going to die. I think there were some safe guards...the point I was trying to make was our band had gotten so out of our control.
The papers were presented to us [by management].
Opie & Anthony: Do you think it was more of a management thing than from him [Axl] personally?
Duff McKagan: To this day I don't really know.
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/boar … msg1303977
If Duff doesn't even say that Axl was certainly behind how the contract was presented, how can anyone else?
Ali
- Mikkamakka
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Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
buzzsaw wrote:Ali wrote:I have common sense, but I think the problem is your definition of common sense is tantamount to presumptions that suit your pre-existing notions of how this situation unfolded. You say Axl surely knew that dirty tricks were used by Big FD to get Slash/Duff to sign over the name. Unless there is some recording or paper trail where he gives explicit instructions to try and coerce Slash/Duff into signing over the name, or he was actually in the room when it happened (which we know is not the case), then you have bases to say he SURELY knew. Is it possible he knew? It's possible. Is it a certainty as you claim? Absolutely not. IMO, that is a more reasoned assessment than what you stated.
Ali
Does it matter if he knew? He clearly had no issues invoking the clause.
It doesn't change the ultimate outcome, but when you're talking about what someone did or didn't know, I think there should at least be some basis for that.
Anyway, it's kinda funny to see someone be so emphatic about what happened or how it happened when Duff said this on the Opie & Anthony show after his book came out:
Opie & Anthony: Did he [Axl] really come to you and Slash and wanted you to sign paper before you went on stage.
Duff McKagan: No no no. I hope that part of the book is clear. In that part of our group, I don't think there was any connection between management and the band and all of that stuff. I do think people thought Slash and I were going to die. I think there were some safe guards...the point I was trying to make was our band had gotten so out of our control.
The papers were presented to us [by management].
Opie & Anthony: Do you think it was more of a management thing than from him [Axl] personally?
Duff McKagan: To this day I don't really know.
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/boar … msg1303977
If Duff doesn't even say that Axl was certainly behind how the contract was presented, how can anyone else?
Ali
Axl's words are crystal clear.
Also don't forget that Duff's book came out when they were trying to ease the situation between Axl and Slash to help the RRHOF reunion, and Duff was kinda the negotiator, so he had to be very diplomatic. It's easier to blame the ex-manager for all that went bad, especially since Doug lost Axl's confidence, too. However it's insane to think that Axl never knew about how he got the name that worths a fortune.
Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
Ali wrote:buzzsaw wrote:Does it matter if he knew? He clearly had no issues invoking the clause.
It doesn't change the ultimate outcome, but when you're talking about what someone did or didn't know, I think there should at least be some basis for that.
Anyway, it's kinda funny to see someone be so emphatic about what happened or how it happened when Duff said this on the Opie & Anthony show after his book came out:
Opie & Anthony: Did he [Axl] really come to you and Slash and wanted you to sign paper before you went on stage.
Duff McKagan: No no no. I hope that part of the book is clear. In that part of our group, I don't think there was any connection between management and the band and all of that stuff. I do think people thought Slash and I were going to die. I think there were some safe guards...the point I was trying to make was our band had gotten so out of our control.
The papers were presented to us [by management].
Opie & Anthony: Do you think it was more of a management thing than from him [Axl] personally?
Duff McKagan: To this day I don't really know.
http://www.heretodaygonetohell.com/boar … msg1303977
If Duff doesn't even say that Axl was certainly behind how the contract was presented, how can anyone else?
Ali
Axl's words are crystal clear.
Also don't forget that Duff's book came out when they were trying to ease the situation between Axl and Slash to help the RRHOF reunion, and Duff was kinda the negotiator, so he had to be very diplomatic. It's easier to blame the ex-manager for all that went bad, especially since Doug lost Axl's confidence, too. However it's insane to think that Axl never knew about how he got the name that worths a fortune.
I'm not sure what you're trying to imply here. There's a difference between diplomacy and dishonesty. But, I'll say this: Duff's words are crystal clear. He isn't certain about how things went down and obviously does not pin the blame on Axl for how that situation unfolded. He was there. He was a participant. But, you as an outsider are claiming to know for certain what a participant in the situation isn't even sure of "to this day"? That's....interesting, to say the least.
Ali
Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
Bono wrote:Ali wrote:I have common sense, but I think the problem is your definition of common sense is tantamount to presumptions that suit your pre-existing notions of how this situation unfolded. You say Axl surely knew that dirty tricks were used by Big FD to get Slash/Duff to sign over the name. Unless there is some recording or paper trail where he gives explicit instructions to try and coerce Slash/Duff into signing over the name, or he was actually in the room when it happened (which we know is not the case), then you have bases to say he SURELY knew. Is it possible he knew? It's possible. Is it a certainty as you claim? Absolutely not. IMO, that is a more reasoned assessment than what you stated.
Ali
I love when people make a conscious effort to sound smarter than they are by using ridiclous vocabulary. Ali we're on a Gn'R message board, not a court room. Seriously drop the act already. You know how I know it's an act? Cause you'd never talk that way in real life to any of us. I've never seen anyone buy into their own online persona like you do. The more people suggesed you act like Gn'R's attourney the more you play it up. It's so fucking weird.
You know what's so asinine about this post? You don't know me. You don't know how smart I am or am not and you don't know how I talk in real life because, again, you don't know me at all. And yet, you're writing about me trying to sound smarter than I am and how I would talk in real life.
Please don't presume to know me because you don't.
Ali
No Ali I don't know you but I know a full blown act when I see one. I know you don't speak like than when sitting around having a beer with the guys. And FYI super smart guy I wasn't trying to sound smarter than you, I was simply pointing out how ridiculous it is that you play up this "attorney" character you have going.
Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
Outside the fanbase, even Izzy is dismissed. To the average Joe, only Axl and Slash matter, as in many other bands: Jagger/Richards, Bono/Edge (I cannot even name U2's bass player without google), Page/Plant, etc...
Your comment about not knowing U2's bass player reminded me of this as well as Riad's comment about Guitar Hero. This is pretty funny but #9 and #7 especially considering the comments here
Re: Doug Goldstein Letter to Axl
that letter made my skin crawl...
I ALWAYS felt that way myself. This was always an embarassing letter, both for Doug, as well as Axl.
It came across as the most humiliating, pandering way or "I want my job back. Please? Purity please? Purity pretty please with sugar on top? I promise I won't screw up again, I love you"
There's nothing wrong with ONE desperate "I love you" letter to try to save the whole deal... but the difference is it's a letter coming from passion. Whether love or hatred. That person has the emotion of passion. They love to hate you, or they just love you. That's what they want. YOUR love. There's something admirable about that, even if it's desperate.
But doing it, disguising it as this, and all for money. Nothing but money. Axl wasn't fooled, and neither would I. Epic douche of the universe Award Nominee moment.
Fuck Doug. He broke up the band. He's one of the guys that if I could send a Terminator back in time to keep him from ever being born to save GN'R -- he'd be first on the list.
