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polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: In a perfect world.

polluxlm wrote:
metallex78 wrote:
polluxlm wrote:

I picked them as a good example of what happens when you're successful and pushing 40 or 50. The hunger dies. None of them have put out anything worth remembering for 20-30 years. CD and the odd leaks are miles ahead of any recent efforts from those bands. CD may not be great (though I think it is), but by any measurement it's quite good. Apart from a few songs those other bands don't even achieve that.

Though, no matter how you look at it, for one of the most talented artist in recent decades to only have released a handful of albums is a tragedy in itself. To be regularly mentioned in the same breath as those bands with only 2 acclaimed albums under the belt is an achievement.

Metallica's Death Magnetic was certainly up there with their best stuff (in my opinion) and I thought the Load albums were pretty good too.
But you're forgetting that had any of these bands taken 15 years to release one album like Axl did, they too would probably be up there or better than CD.

I'm not saying that so much as a dig at you, but really, I don't think Axl has any more hunger or ambition than the bands you're comparing him to.

The only thing Axl has going for him in releasing one album in 20 years, is that he didn't have the chance to release below average music by releasing music more regularly, so he kinda gets a free pass with that...

But I'd hardly call ACDC, Metallica and U2 slouches when it came to releasing consistently quality music.
They all have many albums under their belts released within short time frames, that Axl really can't compete with.

Well I can't really argue about your opinion on an album. I just feel it's different. Those bands all have their core members and while I hear a good song here and there it feels far off from their respective hey days. CD still sounds like a man that is really trying to do something, giving us some of his best vocal and lyrical performances of his career. Is there a NEM quality Hammet solo to be found after 91? A Thunderstruck quality riff from Angus Young? Though they're far and between I'll hand it to U2 though, they can still crank out a great song if they want to. But you only get the one or two, never a whole album. I'm probably being very subjective, but that's my thoughts on the matter. Creatively I put Axl in that rare box with Lennon, Prince, Dylan et. al.

And I don't think an album becomes better if you spend 15 years on it. Not even Axl did that. 4-5 years at the max, it just took forever to reach the shelves. They also made more than 15 songs in that time frame. Axl's never really been slow in creating music, he's been slow in putting it out. That's got nothing to do with his creativity.

Yes, all the bands have had their peak when great albums came like pearls on a string. That's the point, there's not many pearls to be found anymore. Axl's bracelet is certainly not as big as those other bands, but it's still mostly made up of pearls. Until he puts out something as bad as St Anger, HTDANB and most of AC/DC's albums since the 70s, I feel I got a point.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: In a perfect world.

Axlin16 wrote:

The problem with all of these theories is you're assuming this music is actually good because Guns N' Roses is associated with it.


The post-work of these guys proves they should their major creative loads by the mid-90's tops. I still think GN'R had that southern rock/grunge-inspired album in them around 1994/95, which would've been a joy, but like Alice In Chains '95, as well as In Utero or Down On The Upside, I believe would've been their swan song, literally around the same time. These guys were fried together regardless.

Alot of Slash fans think he's actually good, but truely listened to with an objective mind, Slash's post-GN'R work is incredibly average. Sure he has some guitar solos that can totally compete with his GN'R stuff, but in reality the songs are just not that good, nor does Slash have the ego to allow smarter, more talented people around him (think Cornell or Axl) on a regular basis. People talk shit about Axl, but Slash doesn't like taking a whole lot of creative orders either.

Axl's Chinese Democracy stuff was great, but was still missing something, over-baked and INfamous for a reason. Going Down, despite the love for Tommy... I hope that's a B-side. If that's the best they've got, Axl's vault has stayed hidden to keep his value UP, not down. Otherwise he's Steven Tyler, burned out alot faster.


Even if you believe in Quantum Physics, and alternate dimensions, I don't think there's any dimension that multiple GN'R albums across the span of 25 years exist, and if they do i'm sure there's a few Just Push Play, St. Anger, and Music From Another Dimension albums on there, which I would've been crushed as a GN'R fan if their catalog would've been soiled like that.

Then again Axl's "live like a red-headed bastard" show that he's doing now, has soiled their name too.


Hopefully Axl let's DJ do his thang (not BBF, not impressed with his work so far with GN'R, including on the leaks), and that Axl eventually has the guts to consult other writers.

Believe or not, as starved as I am for Guns, so much to the point i've walked away from the band completely, even the stuff that's leaked.... "needs more work", even after all these years.

So I don't think this was ever going to happen. hmm

Intercourse
 Rep: 212 

Re: In a perfect world.

Intercourse wrote:

Axlin,
You say that you believe that "nor does Slash have the ego to allow smarter, more talented people around him (think Cornell or Axl) on a regular basis"... Can you show me the material that made you reach this opinion on Slash? I ask because I seem to agree with everything you say about GNR except for this position.

I don't doubt for a second that Slash held fast on material he sent to Axl when they were heading for their split, BUT Slash was fighting for his musical life at that stage and you know what they say about injured and cornered animals...

Below is what Chris & Slash said about working together in the past and present...I just don't see the ego issue you claim probably exists....

(From Classic Rock when "Slash I" came out)...

""I met Slash in 1992 when G&R took Soundgarden on tour. He was extremely gracious and always very supportive. Often when you tour with a band that are that successful, they treat you like shit. Slash was always a very consistent and amiable person and he is now. And I will say this - and I don't mean this as a slight to him, it's actually a compliment - Slash is the most drunk guitarist I have ever seen play well on stage. I was never able to be that trashed and that good at the same time. That's a part of his consistency: he doesn't drink now and he's still great. That dedication to music is what drives his character."

Meanwhile in an interview with MusicRadar.com, Slash gives his own view of the song and on working with Chris.

'Chris was great. "Promise" was probably the most unorthodox piece of music that I'™d written, it was very different. It was one of those things, I don'™t know why I thought of him for that song more than any of the others, but I sent it to him and within 48 hours he sent me this great lyric and we were off and running. It was as simple as that. Everybody seems to like this one."

Sounds like all was rosy in the garden between both men, back in the day and now.
I think Slash has a huge myth of guarded egomania built around him by certain fans who took sides after the original GNR split, but for the life of me I simply cannot find one interview from anyone except Axl that states he became impossible to work with collaborativelty because of this.
The Corey issue may be just waht you're referring to but I think that's more to do with personal taste than ego issues.
Happy to be proved wrong!

monkeychow
 Rep: 634 

Re: In a perfect world.

monkeychow wrote:

We could go back and forth all day with the "are the solo works crapper than GNR" and so on.

But the end problem always boils down to the one thing: GNR is not an artistically functional band.

I mean what do you do in a band? Write Songs, Release Them and Tour Them. That's what it means to be a band.

The bottom line is that every one of GNR's peers went on to record several albums since back in the day. Metallica, U2, Bon Jovi - these kinds of acts have had the time to come in and out of form even...good albums, bad albums, changes of style...but in all this time GNR's come up with 15 songs that it deemed worthy to share.

There are more ENTRIE ALBUMS created without AXl from the gnr alumni than there SONGS that have been completed inside GNR.

No one wants them to rush out stuff and put out shit, but then you can also let a quest never to do anything substandard paralyse you entirely.

To put it in context, Avenged Sevenfold a band formed in 1999, just released their SIXTH album. The songs were written in August 2012, the recording took place from january, and boom...in August 2013 it hit stores.

Now i'm sure opinions differ if A7X is a good or a shit band - but let's not pretend the character of that band is really going to change if instead of recording 6 albums they'd made one - or if the writing process took 10 years  not 3 months.

Now not everyone is the same, I'm not saying Axl must come up with a song every X months or whatever.

But at some point...when the band can't get into a studio together...in the 7 years BBF's been in the band....when there's records unfinished from lineups that don't even exist anymore....more than a decade and a half old and still no sign of life....

I don't think we need a perfect world. I think we just need a world where Axl gets some help for whatever has crippled him creatively. He is afterall historically one of the greatest songwriters on the planet.

PaSnow
 Rep: 199 

Re: In a perfect world.

PaSnow wrote:
polluxlm wrote:

CD and the odd leaks are miles ahead of any recent efforts from those bands.

Now I realized why I stop coming to these boards... You could come up with a Metallica GH album post-Black Album, or a U2 GH album post-Achtung Baby, and it would be muuuuuch better than CD.  At best to any listener there's only about 3 good songs on it, if that.  Personally I don't even have the album anymore, I think it was left in my car when I sold it. No need to download it, it was just pretty bad.

Intercourse
 Rep: 212 

Re: In a perfect world.

Intercourse wrote:

Nobody has the last word on taste. But what PAS is saying is true. Other bands are releasing tunes on a par with anything on CD, each of us just might not personally agree.

Even in GNR land you could take every tune of CD and stack it against an older GNR tune that runs in the same vein and argue that CD tunes are always weaker..

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: In a perfect world.

polluxlm wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

At best to any listener there's only about 3 good songs on it, if that.  Personally I don't even have the album anymore, I think it was left in my car when I sold it. No need to download it, it was just pretty bad.

Fight hyperbole with hyperbole?

And there are not many of us who support CD to my degree, mostly people land somewhere in your camp, so I don't see how that's a reason for not hanging out here. From where I'm standing you're all brothers in arms!

RaZor
 Rep: 32 

Re: In a perfect world.

RaZor wrote:
PaSnow wrote:
polluxlm wrote:

CD and the odd leaks are miles ahead of any recent efforts from those bands.

Now I realized why I stop coming to these boards... You could come up with a Metallica GH album post-Black Album, or a U2 GH album post-Achtung Baby, and it would be muuuuuch better than CD.  At best to any listener there's only about 3 good songs on it, if that.  Personally I don't even have the album anymore, I think it was left in my car when I sold it. No need to download it, it was just pretty bad.

Intercourse wrote:

Nobody has the last word on taste. But what PAS is saying is true. Other bands are releasing tunes on a par with anything on CD, each of us just might not personally agree.

Even in GNR land you could take every tune of CD and stack it against an older GNR tune that runs in the same vein and argue that CD tunes are always weaker..

I strongly disagree with both of you. I think CD is on par or better than any other GNR record, AFD excluded. I like it better than Lies, UYI 1, and TSI.  Love UTI 1 and all, but I like CD better.

Re: In a perfect world.

Lomax wrote:
RaZor wrote:

I strongly disagree with both of you. I think CD is on par or better than any other GNR record, AFD excluded. I like it better than Lies, UYI 1, and TSI.  Love UTI 1 and all, but I like CD better.

I'm with you.  AFD, CD, UYI2, UYI,1 LIES

Me_Wise_Magic
 Rep: 70 

Re: In a perfect world.

Lomax wrote:
RaZor wrote:

I strongly disagree with both of you. I think CD is on par or better than any other GNR record, AFD excluded. I like it better than Lies, UYI 1, and TSI.  Love UTI 1 and all, but I like CD better.

I'm with you.  AFD, CD, UYI2, UYI,1 LIES

Yeah I'm in this boat as well. Even though I like UY1 a little more than 2 sometimes; but I can go either way with this order personally. 5   The songs are great and I keep going back to CD more often than the Illusions nowadays.

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