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misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

misterID wrote:

Intercourse, I would look at it like this:

We talk about Axl's tantrums, isolation and ego... I would talk about the other members drug abuse and their own self destructive, irresponsible attitudes, that had much more to do with the disintegration and disillusionment. One thing that's overlooked of what Axl has said was that he had a real fear that one or several of the band members were going to die, which was a REAL possibility, leading to real legal chaos, ie: Nirvana. Like you said, millions of $$ at stake here. And he had a vested interest in this band.

There's always seemed to be real resentment that the other guys left Axl to be the adult in the room when it came to business aspects, that he had to be the one to "carry the briefcase", that he had to learn the business and the legalities, while they were getting blasted. Let's talk about Alan Niven having an big impact with his paranoia, as Axl has said, where there was a real threat of management trying to oust Axl from the band for his soaking up the business and not liking what he was finding with the people who were supposed to be representing the band. And it seems they were glad to have Axl fill this role for them and at the end of the day, he laid out his reasons for wanting the name. They agreed. They signed the papers. They could have said no. They could have sued (something they are not afraid to do). They didn't. It's that simple. They can't even get their stories straight on how it happened.

I'm not saying Axl is an angel, and didn't have a hand in it, I just have a hard time believing it was all on Axl and that he didn't have a legit reason for what he did. As more time passes I'm giving him more the benefit of the doubt.

A Slash GN'R wouldn't have happened for a simple reason: Slash saw himself as his own commodity and brand. I think Sash would've made like one GN'R album and moved on to being Slash, because he's Slash. VR seemed to be a fuck you to Axl and that they could make it without him... I never got the feeling Slash's heart was ever in VR, tbh.  Axl made it clear that he didn't separate himself from Guns N' Roses, and I remember a story Slash told that Axl refused to do a solo project because Guns was his solo project, and he understood it, and to me, that's how much that band meant to him. We might not like how he operates, but it's who he is and always has been. From Picasso to Axl, artists aren't easy to understand.

I think too much romanticism of the old days is clouding this debate. Hey, I'm from the American south, I know all about trying to romanticize shit that's not as pretty as you'd like to think. And it comes down to guys not getting along and no longer wanting to work together. That's what it comes down to. And one guy who wanted that name more than the others.

Intercourse
 Rep: 212 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Intercourse wrote:

First of all, thanks guys for the kind words, it meant alot and put me in great form yesterday!

Second, I empathise with Slash and the others alot becuase I had (and lost) a record deal because the most talented guy in the band (and my oldest and closest friend too), became a very similar character to Axl in alot of ways. When you are trying to realise a dream and you are exhausted trying to manage somebody who seems happy to upend the whole thing for a million different illogical reasons, and yet he's too good at what he does musically to fire, you soon find yourself high and drunk all day because it takes the knot out of your stomach and lets you sleep and stops you beating the shit out of him.


ID just to reply to your mail and continue exploring this topic (for the millionth time I know but sure what the hell...)

I would talk about the other members drug abuse and their own self destructive, irresponsible attitudes, that had much more to do with the disintegration and disillusionment. One thing that's overlooked of what Axl has said was that he had a real fear that one or several of the band members were going to die, which was a REAL possibility

Sure, Duff and Slash had real issues with substances but I remember Gilby talking about the band drinking coctails to try to stay calm as the booing started in the arena because Axl was late and not even on site.
That kind of brinksmanship takes a massive toll on people. Axl has never even acknowledged the anger Izzy & Slash had with him sabotaging gigs and cauising riots. Has he ever apologised for those who got hurt back then? That's not a rhetorical question by the way, I just don't recall ever hearing an apology from the man to his bandmates or his fans for the consequences of him abusing his position as the key stone of the whole fucking tour's operation.

Anyway, if he was so worried why didin't he offer to stop coming on late and storming off in return for a more measured use of drugs and alcohol by the band?  The guys all stated their frustrations about Axl's issues in measured tones in the press but only once backing the Rolling Stones do I recall Axl calling out his band for their behaviour.

Lets say both sides were wrong... a strong and fair manager would have sorted this with a few size tens up each ass, a slap, a hug and some therapy. Instead Axl had a yes man installed who wanted GNR for Axl and himself so it never happened.

There's always seemed to be real resentment that the other guys left Axl to be the adult in the room when it came to business aspects, that he had to be the one to "carry the briefcase", that he had to learn the business and the legalities, while they were getting blasted

This is just not true, read the Rolling Stones interviews with Axl from the UYI tour, Slash was and remainded core to all business dealings with Axl, until things started to fall apart at the end where Doug & Axl pushed Slash to the side. In fact, in the early days it was Slash who did all the business stuff, Axl was reclusive and left that shit alone, only getting an interest when real success came. Most of Axl's lawsuits at the time were to do with him personally and not the band.

Niven having an big impact with his paranoia, as Axl has said, where there was a real threat of management trying to oust Axl from the band

I always point to the fact that Izzy stayed with Niven after GNR; Izzy was sober, measured, critical of all sides (Slash & Axl) and one of the creators of GNR so I consider him the only true impartial from that time.  Him staying with Niven endorses Niven to me. I choose to believe Niven had "GNR" as his vested interest not Axl. As a good manager, he saw one guy fucking it up for for the many and he explored the idea of getting rid of the one to save the rest. That's just good analytical business thinking nothing more. Of course, it would have spelt a disasterous end for GNR as Axl was the nuclear bomb of talent in the band but Niven's arms length thinking was spot on. A good manager  always ensures that each band ego understands that Nobody is bigger than the band. Of course Axl disagreed and his actions, and after '93 he proved he actually did believe he was bigger than the band. Niven can be neither lauded or despised for his role because we were not there but look where GNR went after he got sacked..20 years in the wilderness.

They signed the papers. They could have said no. They could have sued (something they are not afraid to do). They didn't. It's that simple. They can't even get their stories straight on how it happened.

Have you ever been so beaten down by someone that you have just given up and walked away, to hell with the consequences? I have, I'm sure many here have. 
Fans should consider that these were still very young men, addicted to drugs, probably very tired from touring, isolated and sick of living with each other, sepearted by hangers on, managers and other low lifes, filling their heads with lies, struggling to stay on the monster that GNR became. All of them got it wrong here, BADLY wrong, but when you consider the circumstances they were in mentally and physically its hardly surprising.
Airline Pilots have killed hundreds of people when they are tired, flying planes in ways their trainers could never understand. Imagine trying to read legal documents in twice as bad a condition?

I'm not saying Axl is an angel, and didn't have a hand in it, I just have a hard time believing it was all on Axl and that he didn't have a legit reason for what he did. As more time passes I'm giving him more the benefit of the doubt.

[I'm not saying Axl was a devil either but lets be scientific, EVERY band member talked about his dictatorial attitude. A sober Izzy and a sober Duff and a sober Matt referenced it many times. Niven mentioned it. The evidence is there from credible sources. I think the "worried they'd die" stuff is crass to say the least. Where were the interventions? Duff went after a dealer with a gun to try to stop him selling dope to Steven, these guys used to help each other. Not this time...not one word.

A Slash GN'R wouldn't have happened for a simple reason: Slash saw himself as his own commodity and brand. I think Sash would've made like one GN'R album and moved on to being Slash, because he's Slash

Pure speculation.  Slash loves the band dynamic, he's stated it countless times in interviews. He stated that the solo thing only became a driver after his fall out with Scott, he'd had enough of the lead singer drama. Sure he has his image and brand, so does James Hetfield, that's quite a seperate thing from being solo. If Axl had stayed, Slash would have too. I don't think Slash ever stopped appreciating what Axl brought to the table musically and in terms of his massive persona.
Slash did what, 7 years in GNR and 7 in VR? His record speaks for itself. What Slash wanted of GNR was AC/DC II / Rolling Stones career trajectory, not a solo gig.

Slash told that Axl refused to do a solo project because Guns was his solo project

That was the beginning of the end. Watch old interviews with Axl, he is ferocious in his defence of GNR. It was "his" band back then too, but every guy was an integral part, loved and defended to the last. Suddenly Axl had the world at his feet, and all options became open to him as an artist - very exciting for sure. I am speculating here but his fascination with NIN and Trent obviously led him to look at how Trent ran his creative and business affairs. I think Axl figured he'd have a bit of that for GNR. And here we are.


VR seemed to be a fuck you to Axl and that they could make it without him... I never got the feeling Slash's heart was ever in VR, tbh

I'm sure after 15 years, these grown up family men probably did VR for more than a school yard revenge move...$$$$ probably figured more heavily! BUT I'm sure they enjoyed the fact that the old band showed Axl that in two short years they ciuld remerge and show the world they still had the chops to reinvent themselves as a hugely successful modern rock act. I think Slash's heart was in it initially but personally I get the feeling he never liked Scott or his work so he stayed to enjoy the success and kudos, but you're right I didn't see the right chemistry. Great band in their day live though...hold shit!!

I think too much romanticism of the old days is clouding this debate. Hey, I'm from the American south, I know all about trying to romanticize shit that's not as pretty as you'd like to think. And it comes down to guys not getting along and no longer wanting to work together. That's what it comes down to. And one guy who wanted that name more than the others

You know, that's probably the sanest and most measured summary of the whole affair. I don't believe anything was romantic per say but when you look back at that old band in interviews and live on stage (I'm talking AFD days) that was the nearest thing to rock n roll perfection I have ever seen in my 44 years. I miss that band and those times every day.

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

misterID wrote:

Dude, that whole post was speculation on your part to build up Slash... at least you admitted it, I give you that. But Axl not giving them an intervention... hmm, well, let's ignore the fact we don't know that, that Duff RAN from his own intervention from his family, Axl told the band to STOP TAKING DRUGS in the middle of a show. How much more plain can you get? Slash said on Behind The Music that it was that moment he started hating Axl. Not the late shows, behavior or dictatorship, but the ultimatum. And they STILL did not listen.

Axl put himself in the position he is in today on all fronts. That's the truth, but I understand who he is. It's who he has always been. I don't have to try and make him seem to be someone he isn't. He is the most frustrating artist to follow, just like other bands are to their fans. But I'm here because I am a fan and I know what I'm getting into. I don't have to gloss the story for whatever reason, or that I'm on "team Axl" over "team Slash." I can still like Slash and know he's a habitual liar, a scumbag at heart, and not the nicest person in the world. I don't need to paint him as perfect, or a victim. He's a flawed human being, just like Axl. And their personalities don't fit inside the same band... even though with the ogre Axl is, a lot of you guys STILL want them back in the same band. You still want a reunion.

That's ironic considering what you're trying to tear Axl apart over is what people brag as "The Most Dangerous Band in The World." And it's pretty annoying that the other guys are CONSTANTLY portrayed as victims, just going along with the bully. They were willing participants. That gave them their "dangerous" persona that Slash isn't afraid to talk about today. That post is just a lot of excuses for Slash to be the victim and the good guy and pretending they didn't have dirt on their hands. Watch those riot videos, the band was on his side during the whole thing. They endorsed it. When Axl threatened to walk off stage in Brazil, Slash was laughing in the BG. Everyone thought it was cool when it was with "their" line up. And there was an understanding that's what made him who he is, it's rock n roll, blah blah blah and all that bullshit... suddenly it's not cool... but it would still be cool if Slash was there. At least, it would be tolerated. Axl isn't going to apologize... I've always given him shit over the bullshit, not just when it's convenient for me.

No one was victimized. And blaming the drug and alcohol abuse on Axl's tardiness is fucking lame. FUCKING lamest of the lame. They were junkies before that and they were junkies afterwards.And the tardiness didn't make it worse or better. they were junkies.

Yes, VR was a big FU to Axl, and I'm sure they'd admit it.  And if you can jump to conclusions about motivations, so can I.

Slash went solo while he was in GN'R. Slash went solo when he was in VR and they were still looking for a new singer. James Hetfield NEVER went solo. The guys in Ac/Dc never went solo. Slash likes being Slash... there's nothing wrong with that. At all. It's who he is. No need to try and twist this into him being a "band guy" when he's much more prolific and happy, it seems, as a solo artist and captain of the ship. Slash was offering music Axl didn't like, on top of the personality issues. The guys, all of them, had a much different relationship in poverty than they did in wealth, as Axl said. It was inevitable. Plain and simple.

Alan Niven is a lying piece of shit, who will hold on to anything of GN'R that he can possibly get. Since 1989 Axl was talking about having to take more responsibility in the business. And it was Aerosmith who was advising Axl what the management was doing... and not doing. I'm sure people will love Niven because he paints Axl as the bad guy and everything they want to believe... Too bad it's been proved wrong by his relationships with Izzy and Duff today, and his blatant revisionist writings of the forming of GNR, which had Izzy being the sole mastermind and genius and Axl the bystander. Yeah,... Too bad we all know the history of how that band formed.

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 328 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Smoking Guns wrote:

Slash led GNR!!!!!  Just like Axlin said, a stonesy rock band!

-D-
 Rep: 231 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

-D- wrote:

Id imagine they never considered the possible ramifications of signing over the name. They prob never dreamed Axl would do what he did with it.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Axlin16 wrote:
Intercourse wrote:

This is just not true, read the Rolling Stones interviews with Axl from the UYI tour, Slash was and remainded core to all business dealings with Axl, until things started to fall apart at the end where Doug & Axl pushed Slash to the side. In fact, in the early days it was Slash who did all the business stuff, Axl was reclusive and left that shit alone, only getting an interest when real success came. Most of Axl's lawsuits at the time were to do with him personally and not the band.


I think you are looking at this an Axl's motives the wrong way. You are coming at ALL of your opinion from a perspective of a power grab, and nothing else. But like ID stated, Axl himself stated, he had other motives for making a play than just "i'm an egomanical dick" which at the base core of your opinion is pretty much what you're saying in a nice fancy way.

And that's not saying your opinion doesn't have merit, but it's entirely one-sided as well. We have to assume for you to be right, that Axl is a full-blown heel here and that Slash is an innocent babyface, which is far from the truth if not closer to being the opposite.

Yes you are correct in that Slash was involved in business dealings, such as picking bandmembers early on, but Axl has stated before what his intention was during this period, and the plain simple fact is that Axl gave the band simple stuff to do, because it was in their wheelhouse, and it's better for the band to choose who they want to play with than the vocalist.

Axl didn't TAKE OVER business when it got successful, in the sense you are presenting. Axl and the GN'R machine was EASY when Slash was more involved. Slash also wasn't near as advanced in his substance abuse, per his own auto-bio. When Slash really got neck-deep in heroin abuse and started having random OD's, around the 1988-89 period was when Axl started making more of a play. Axl also had a TON of people in his ear, telling him to replace Slash or make other arrangements, because Slash could be dead tomorrow, no different than Slash had Alan Niven in his ear telling him to fire Axl and get someone more reliable before it takes off. The problem was by 1988-89, had EITHER of them been shown the door, the band would've been effectively over, or possibly would've never even got off the ground. Even to this day when people say GN'R they usually mean "Axl & Slash", no different than "Mick & Keith" or "Steven & Joe" or "Roger & Pete".

Axl made it clear in numerous interviews that Slash & Duff were more involved early on before all the major success came, because it was simpler. They were a young, hungry band, with a small time manager and low priorities, other than making sure they kept themselves in drugs (even Axl), pussy, booze, and probably not that order. It was fun, and those were their bonding days, such as the infamous Seattle trip. But by 1988 when they took off like a rocket, suddenly lawyers were getting involved, the band were doing more and more drugs to cope with numerous things from success, to road lag, addiction, and suddenly going from a fledgling band sharing biscuits n' gravy and their cokes with each other at Denny's, to having a big enough check in the mail to buy anything they want and to finally get off the streets and their mother's couch. That was enough of a big pill to swallow, but suddenly ALL of them were in over their heads. The business was no longer about hanging out with Marc Canter, writing a tune, and simply 'talking about' WHEN they make it. They were now made guys. No different than the Jersey mafia. And once you're made guys, no different than on The Sopranos, there are bigger and more important responsibilites, other than booking dates (Slash) and picking out a drummer (Slash). Axl was then thrust into a world that Slash & Duff wanted nothing to do with, dealing with the stuff that bores EVERY FUCKING ONE. I took Business Law, and have a continuing background in law, and even I HATE the Contract Law section. It's the most boring aspect of Law. Yet it's the most important financially. It can make or break you. Literally. Slash & Duff were too fucked up to get that (otherwise they wouldn't have willingly signed over their bandname to Axl). And Izzy was a fucking gypsy. No way he was going to be involved.

In other words when everything got really technical and boring and hard on the business side... they disappeared. But Axl picked up the ball. His work. His win. Even steven imo.

The others then wanted everything to revert back to the way it was by the time they were touring in 1991, but so much had changed by then. The band about fell apart in 1989, because NO ONE was talking to each other and no one knew where the other was. Izzy & Steven were in horrible shape in their addiction, and Slash wasn't far behind. I didn't read Duff's book, so I don't know much about him during this period, and the interviews Axl was doing in that 1989-90 period, you could hear in Axl's words the doubt that he was casting over the future of the band even then.

Thus his big play when the re-negotiation in 1990 doesn't shock me based on his interviews of the time. In Axl's world, I don't think he even felt Slash would be in the band in the next 5 years, even if Slash was alive. Steven was already fired, and I think Axl still felt he could lean on Izzy & Duff (like now), even then, and of course Izzy decided to quit and leave him, and Duff cozied up to Slash, because as we know now they were BOTH hardcore alcoholics & junkies at the time, which just re-inforced Axl even more to gain control.

Even if Axl back in the day makes it clear his intention to take over, I think Axl's motivations were far more of a serious concern over his vision of Guns N' Roses and what it's future would be. Now even by the UYI recording sessions in 1990 when Axl basically decided to just record seperately, I cannot judge what his feelings were during this time, whether he chose isolaton from the band because of A) he prefers to record that way, or B) Axl looked at the band as the band and himself seperately as the true brain child behind the band -- who knows?

Regardless... I FLAT disagree you that Axl did this as a simple power play because he was a dick that wanted to take his band's band. Bullshit. They were fuck offs, enjoyed being fuck offs, and their behavior even drove away one of their bandmates as a scapegoat (Steven). Axl did what he did to protect GN'R, it's future, and his own business interests and percentages in that franchise and what it would become. Business is business. This isn't a Gene & Paul situation, where I truely believe Gene Simmons & Paul Stanley colluded with each other to steal KISS from Ace Frehley & Peter Criss.

Intercourse wrote:

I always point to the fact that Izzy stayed with Niven after GNR; Izzy was sober, measured, critical of all sides (Slash & Axl) and one of the creators of GNR so I consider him the only true impartial from that time.  Him staying with Niven endorses Niven to me. I choose to believe Niven had "GNR" as his vested interest not Axl. As a good manager, he saw one guy fucking it up for for the many and he explored the idea of getting rid of the one to save the rest. That's just good analytical business thinking nothing more. Of course, it would have spelt a disasterous end for GNR as Axl was the nuclear bomb of talent in the band but Niven's arms length thinking was spot on. A good manager  always ensures that each band ego understands that Nobody is bigger than the band. Of course Axl disagreed and his actions, and after '93 he proved he actually did believe he was bigger than the band. Niven can be neither lauded or despised for his role because we were not there but look where GNR went after he got sacked..20 years in the wilderness.

Yeah, but again I come back to you understanding Axl's motivations. Get inside his head. Axl is not crazy in the traditional sense, but in the un-traditional sense, and thus imo -- the right sense. Regardless of anyone's opinions about Axl, Axl saw the business from David Geffen all the way down to Alan Niven as different versions of blood sharks all swimming in the kiddie pool that had exploded into the Pacific Ocean that is GN'R. You as an artist yourself know that the bigger you get, the more people want to take your creation from you. I know I would have a HUGE problem splitting hardly anything that comes from my musical art, unless it's just cutting percentages of the take with the band themselves. Outside of that, you get scale. Obviously the business doesn't work that way.

But understand Axl's point of view. Axl trusted NO ONE then, MORE than he does now. This was an abused, paranoid kid from the midwest who saw everyone as Out Ta Get Him... 'cause they were. The cops, his step dad, his mom, a truck driver that wanted some teen ass, and now Axl's new villians were suits n' ties and drove Mercedes in far nicer offices and homes with hotter wives and daughters than the world Axl comes from.

How did Axl react? He put up self-defense walls like he had since he was a kid. It was trust no one, and if anyone questions you--kick their ass.

All this motivation went into how Axl saw management. Just a bunch of thieves. So he trusted no one, yet with an outfit that big, he had to trust someone and a passive, runt like Goldstein was the one for the job. The last thing Axl wanted was a head strong, old school manager type who wanted more control of the band, like Niven.

But no different than Niven's comments, even today, history has FULLY vindicated Axl on Alan Niven. Alan Niven is a doucheturd that has remixed timelines, and now just makes stuff up out of thin air to continue obsessing over Axl. Not the band. Not the period. Not the firing. AXL. Axl foresaw it, for all the right reasons for Axl, and all the wrong reasons for the band, and he cut the cancer out before it spread. If my manager was trying to get me fired, i'd flex my muscles too.

Good for Axl as far as i'm concerned. Niven just wanted a huge slice of that GN'R Pie, and Axl threw him a donut and a smile, and I would've probably did the same.

Izzy stuck with Niven, because Niven was jobless and familiar. Nothing more.

Intercourse wrote:

[I'm not saying Axl was a devil either but lets be scientific, EVERY band member talked about his dictatorial attitude. A sober Izzy and a sober Duff and a sober Matt referenced it many times. Niven mentioned it. The evidence is there from credible sources. I think the "worried they'd die" stuff is crass to say the least. Where were the interventions? Duff went after a dealer with a gun to try to stop him selling dope to Steven, these guys used to help each other. Not this time...not one word.

So he was a dicator? So what? Again, I haven't seen one other natural born leader in the band... other than Axl. Not one. Regardless of who owns the name.  Slash said Axl didn't like Steven back in the day, because Steven would get in his face and tell him to knock his bullshit off. Yet Axl was the last one to vote Steven out of the band for firing. If Axl was such a dictator, wanting to strategically and systematically get rid of strong-headed figures in the band, why not take the moment to give Fred Coury the perminate job, or someone else? Didn't happen.

Matt claiming Axl was a dictator again is inconsistent. Matt claimed like years after his time in GN'R ended that Axl was a dictator, and that it was Axl that basically told him "him or me". Axl said Matt came in looking to get fired, picked a fight, and Axl fired him. Later Matt basically admitted... yeah that's what happened.

Yet if you go back to the 1990-91/92 period, Matt talks about how Axl basically let Matt do whatever Matt wanted to do or he felt was best on the drums, and how cool Matt thought Axl was because of that. And that the only song Axl came to him, as well as the band, and basically said "do this, don't do that" and basically orchestrated the whole things was... not a shock... Estranged.

WOW... what a dictator!

I have never bought ANY of Matt's stories about Axl, that were elaborated elsewhere. I think Matt was particularly close to Slash & Duff and took their lead. Period. And that's pretty much what Matt has done since 1990 when he was hired. Matt Sorum is Slash & Duff's to Axl's "Dizzy Reed". Not sure how much credibility is there, because we know they know whatever their boy knows, and not much more.

Hell if Slash's stories about Matt wanting to kick Axl's ass for the late shows are any true, if I were Axl I would've fired him on the spot. No way a fucking replacement player in MY band is gonna tell me like 8 months into the job that he's gonna kick my ass because of X & Y. Fuck him. I'm shocked Matt was there as long as he was. And now Matt has basically said he wants back into the band, without saying it. I couldn't ever see Axl being interested, unless it was a reunion tour, because Steven is too unreliable.

As for the other stories of Axl being a dictator, i'm sure they were true. Again it comes back to when you have no leader, and someone as alpha as Axl... someone has to play the part. Nobody looked terribly focused at the time, other than him.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Axlin16 wrote:

In Regard to Velvet Revolver, I think you're both wrong.

ID imo is wrong in regards to the FU thing. I don't think they really cared, other than purposedly wanting to find someone very far away from Axl, and thus Weiland got the job, and not Baz. To me, if they TRUELY wanted to show a big FU to Axl, they would've found the Adam Lambert of Axl Rose (someone who sounds almost dead like him, but better and younger) and they would've called Izzy, if just in the studio not live, and just hammered out GN'R songs, sans Axl, and then released them via "The Hulk" and had them be BIG hits.

THAT would've been the FU play, had they cared.


Intercourse is right about money being the big motivation, because SO many were throwing them ridiculous numbers like $100-150 million to do a world tour with a reunited GN'R with Axl, and that got them wanting a taste, because Axl was still on his fuck Slash/pro-Chinese Democracy trip then. Intercourse is wrong about the end game to it tho.

I think everyone involved during that period's specific purpose back then was to restore their marketability in the business back. Izzy (who ultimately declined) was yesterday's news and had lost his record deal because of poor sales, Duff's Loaded was a flop and Duff was out of options musically other than crawling back to Axl, Matt was probably in the best position as he had returned to The Cult briefly, Dave Kushner (who?)... and then there's Slash. Snakepit was fucking dead, and pretty much Ain't Life Grand was DOA. Slash had been reduced to being a session vocalist and suing Axl. That was it.

All of them needed something to put them back on the map, and pumped some steroid-level juice back in their careers. So they pitched a "Supergroup" concept, and VR was born... and it worked. Duff has gotten involved in all kinds of different artistic bands since, including a revival with Axl & GN'R, Matt added more royalties to his coffers, the world was introduced to Dave Kushner, and Slash had his solo career completely restored, bigger than it's ever been.


THAT was the purpose of VR from the day they conceptualized it, and in fairness to them... it worked beautifully. That's the biggest reason I think Slash himself has NO interest in reviving it as long as his solo career keeps going, and even still I wonder if he would even care. Matt is replaceable, as is Dave, and like Axl & Duff, you could easily throw Duff on Slash's Conspirators stuff and no one would know the difference.

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 328 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Smoking Guns wrote:

Axlin, you tie your story up with a nice bow, but you have no real claim to your version having more merit than intercourse's.  Intercourse at least has quotes and some facts. You seem to be the one that over states the negatives of Slash and Duff to justify all of Axl's actions.  I posted here yesterday what Marc Canter said just two days ago.  If a guy like Axl can be influenced by someone like fucking Beta and Fernando, what do you think it was like when GNR was getting huge by his lawyers and yes men?  They were telling him what you are saying almost convincing him that Slash and Duff are going to die, etc. control now so when it melts you have a band. While all this is going on, Axl is in never ending lawsuits, a rocky relationship with Seymour, seeing therapists, finding himself, etc... You are going to tell me his unstable bi polar ass all of the fucking sudden decides he is going to take charge for all pure and noble reasons?  None of this has to do with him being influenced and going for an opportunity to control the money train?  Axl is NOT a good businessman. He is a great artist.  Understand that.  He doesn't promote shit. He cost the band Millions with riots, bloated videos and lawsuits.  The band gave him a big leash though so they can't really bitch.  Slash was a fuck up, yes, BUT NEVER MISSED A SHOW DUE TO HIS HABITS.  AND USUALLY PLAYED REALLY FUCKING WELL.  So not a real liability.  Also, who ran the UYI sessions?  Who??? SLASH!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Slash ran all that shit with the band.  He was the damn conductor and Axl layed his vocals and piano etc.  Or worked on the synth like November Rain. But Slash is the one that set up sessions.  Lined up shit in Mobile, AL or Chicago, IL to get the band to different places to record and get away, etc.  So even in Slash's fucked up state, he really kept things under control in the studio and hammered all those songs out, etc.  Not Axl.  If it were up to Axl we would still be waiting on UYI....  So you say a lot of good shit, and a lot of bull shit at the same time.

tejastech08
 Rep: 193 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

tejastech08 wrote:

All these long posts are making it more complicated than it is. Bottom line is all 5 of the original members had serious character flaws and it was a ticking time bomb the moment they hooked up. I'm just glad we got 4 great albums out of them.

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

misterID wrote:

What Tej said. Perfectly.

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