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Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Axlin16 wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

Axlin, chill the fuck out. How old are you? 17?  "The gayest", what kind of homophobe uses that word to put down a post in 2014?  I guess you were inspired by your idol from his "one in a million days". Surprised you didn't call me more provacative word. Anyway, most observers would come up with a similar list. Read your posts....  You are very pro Axl and there is NOTHING wrong with that at all!  His name is in your handle as well. Don't deny your Axl love. And don't give us some BS about D having to pull you back from the ledge in regards to some Axl bashing you did. So you lean Axl's way, who fucking cares!!!!  But don't sit here and act like you don't. Save those lies for HTGTH or MyGNRforum.



Again, a completely fraudulent and untrue statement.


The only person re-writing my history here is you. I can certainly say I did NOT miss this shit. The fact is you can't say ANYTHING pro-Axl in this argument without being labeled as sucking Axl's dick, and "man love" and so on and so on.


"Nobody fucking cares that you side with Axl"


Apparently they do, because if I do or anyone else does in the slightest, they suddenly want to take it up the ass from him, and can't possibly have objectivity. That's not my words, you guys set those parameters...


And i'm the 17-year old... roll

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Axlin16 wrote:
misterID wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

I pulled it in 2 threads because Axlin said it in two different threads in 2 minutes. I lean Slash, but I love Axl. I support the new band as well or I wouldn't be here. Saw them at the famous gig Slash wasn't let in, I was there. Also saw them in ATL back in 2011 or 12. Can't remember and in 2002 in Detroit. So step back from that jump to conclusions mat you were about to step on. I don't care if Axlin uses the word "gay" or not. I really don't. I found it funny for a guy that acts so intelligent to resort to that kind of talk however. I have never seen anyone run from their Axl love. He should claim being an Axlite and wear with a badge of honor!  If he isn't one, what is he?  Not a Slash fan, and not a mere casual fan. I don't look at Axlite or Slashite as a negative at all. Oh well. I really was just busting balls. Don't be so serious. We are on a fucking message board. Relax.

Why should he claim anything? We both know he doesn't fit in either category,he's given Axl a lot of shit... where have you been, dude? And what does it matter?

I'm not jumping to conclusions, SG. These arguments are ridiculous. I'm glad you went to the shows and I hope you enjoyed them, it doesn't change the arguments we have all the time and your posts in those arguments...


This is the whole point of my existence from 2008 on this board summed up. From everyone who has ever hated my guts, I flamed them, they flamed me, added in with MASSIVE doses of me enjoying playing somewhat of a campy character on this board, still.... this post sums it all up.



I DON'T WANT TO FIT INTO EITHER CATEGORY

I have done everything since 2008 to try to reflect that, as closely to my personal opinions as I possibly can.

Not fitting into a category... To me that is the salvation of the GN'R fanbase, politics in general, and maybe the fucking universe as a whole. We are CONSTANTLY warred off against each other. Pitted against each other. Me vs. you. Axl vs. Slash. Axl vs. James. Axl vs. Kurt. Axl vs. Vince. GN'R vs. Metallica. GN'R vs. Nirvana. Republican vs. Democrat. Conservative vs. Liberal. Pro-Gay vs. Anti-Gay. Pro-Choice vs. Pro-Life. Pro-Syrian War vs. Anti-Syrian War (remember that one?)

And it literally goes on into infinity.


Those wars keep us distracted from the real truth--of literally anything. So "hey man, be an Axlite, wear it proud"... why shouldn't I? Because I ain't a fucking Axlite. It would be a dishonest, disservice to the good people on this board for me to take a position as such. It would be equally lame (or gay) of me to take such a hardline pro-Slash stance like so many on here, because again... it would be fake of me and a total dishonest act. I do not see the truth I want, but the truth I think is the truth. If i'm wrong i'm wrong, but I would rather ME be wrong, than for I to be wrong because I didn't choose the right team or the right side of a war. The right side of history.

In my world, Intercourse is stretching the truth. In his world I am. In reality it's just two differing opinions reading the same exact interview and coming away with two different ideas of what the person is saying. That is all.

Intercourse gets a total pass here, as does ID and myself... we've proven ourselves time and again. But Smoking Guns & Mikka both have proven beyond a reasonable doubt that they are firmly in Slash's camp, regardless of if they are Axl fans. That doesn't mean I don't take your opinions seriously, that just means no different than Rachel Maddow on MSNBC or Bill O'Reilly on Fox News, that you are coming from a certain agenda and a certain side of the argument, and you are arguing that base.

And I take those people as not objective. Am I wrong with this opinion?


Because if I am, then not only am I wrong, but i've failed to prove the type of poster I am since 2008 here. No different than the usage of the word "gay". YOU made it offensive. Not me. You see that? I used the word in a non-homophobic way, but that verbage has been classified as apart of divisionary tactics. So if I use "word A", I must be "word B", and I must be classified "word C", and I must be punished using "word D". But what did the word mean? What did I mean in its usage?

By playing both sides of it, it loses its power and keeps its objectivity. Gay is never defined on a broad, socialist-style terminology, but defined from an individual standpoint.

I keep coming back to this style of writing over and over on this board, and I soon as someone pushes me into a label, I do something radically different, but still almost spot on to my personal opinion on the subject. It doesn't mean i'm a flip-flopper, and it doesn't mean "I don't stand for anything".

It means that classification and labels are chains n' shackles, and you must break them as soon as they're thrown on you. If you fall into that pit, you almost never get out. It becomes your public and digital persona, and that's the reason I take such offense at the Axlite/Axlism claims, because A) they're not true, and B) they bother me for a totally different reason than the one you think, and C) yes you can label me as an Axlite, that doesn't both me, but the point and usage of it from my posts apparently failed.

Because for some reason, my posts are almost like musical lyrics to the people that post on here. I write, and I have a meaning. But when people read them, they take from them a totally different meaning that is entirely personal to them, and has nothing to do with my original writing or forethought into writing it.

That is something that in 2014 is a complete mindfuck for me to try and convey still on this board. All I can say is I tried my best to break the prison of meaning, but in the end maybe it's a war no one has ever won in history.

hmm

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

polluxlm wrote:
Mikkamakka wrote:
Sky Dog wrote:

I'll say my story....fact is Axl, Izzy and Duff are still friends......fact is a fact...where is the other guy in the discussion?

Just like Slash, Duff and Izzy. So...?

BTW the Axl-izzy and Axl-Duff friendship are reborn/rebuilt friendships. We all know those heated interviews and lawsuits. In these cases they were able to forgive what happened (and what Axl thought that had happened). We also know that Slash would have made peace with Axl (remember the dropped lawsuit and the visit at his house)...but the answer was a bitter psycho's answer.

His point is Slash is the only one Axl can't make peace with. Whatever happened between them is something else than the typical dictator/fun was gone/drugs messed it up angle we hear from the rest of the band. If Axl being a dick was the major issue, why do everybody pretty much get along except for Axl and Slash? And even there it's not about what Axl did to Slash. Slash has shown he's more than willing to reunite and be back in the band. It's Axl who has a problem with him.

And that's why this whole quoting Izzy and Duff from 20 years ago is poor evidence for Axl being a destructive force in the band. Back then they would cite all kinds of whodunnits for why they "had to leave the band", but now we know the real reasons. Steven got canned because he couldn't keep it together, Izzy left because he discovered he'd rather chill on a farm in the desert than travel with a rock n roll circus in a jumbo jet, Slash left because he regretted one of his many weak willed decisions when he signed over the rights to the band. So he made Axl an offer he couldn't refuse. Axl refused. Then Matt was dumb enough to think his absence would be that extra straw which would make Axl cave. Duff left because the others had left, and/or because keeping clean required a change of lifestyle. 4 junkies and an angry redneck was why it all fell apart, not any one mans megalomania.

Nobody ever left the band because they had a problem with Axl Rose. He's just an easy target because so often he was the personality standing in the way of imposing their own will on what the band should be. It became a battle, he "won" and they all became bitter. But as time goes on Slash has come back crawling, Duff has no problem doing some gigs, Izzy is fine with being a contractual employee as long as he's paid and gets to keep his own schedule, Matt would mow Axl's lawn if he was let back in the band. Steven? He'd probably quite literally give him a blow job just for a one off gig.

Axl Rose living life like a Chinese Emperor may be part of the reason the band fell apart in the first place, but Slash and whatever happened there, is the only reason a reunion is out of the question today.

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 328 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Smoking Guns wrote:

I missed it, but did Axlin just self proclaim himself as a troll?  Makes perfect sense now. Nice cast there Axlin, moving along...

Mikkamakka
 Rep: 217 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Mikkamakka wrote:
polluxlm wrote:
Mikkamakka wrote:
Sky Dog wrote:

I'll say my story....fact is Axl, Izzy and Duff are still friends......fact is a fact...where is the other guy in the discussion?

Just like Slash, Duff and Izzy. So...?

BTW the Axl-izzy and Axl-Duff friendship are reborn/rebuilt friendships. We all know those heated interviews and lawsuits. In these cases they were able to forgive what happened (and what Axl thought that had happened). We also know that Slash would have made peace with Axl (remember the dropped lawsuit and the visit at his house)...but the answer was a bitter psycho's answer.

His point is Slash is the only one Axl can't make peace with. Whatever happened between them is something else than the typical dictator/fun was gone/drugs messed it up angle we hear from the rest of the band. If Axl being a dick was the major issue, why do everybody pretty much get along except for Axl and Slash? And even there it's not about what Axl did to Slash. Slash has shown he's more than willing to reunite and be back in the band. It's Axl who has a problem with him.

And that's why this whole quoting Izzy and Duff from 20 years ago is poor evidence for Axl being a destructive force in the band. Back then they would cite all kinds of whodunnits for why they "had to leave the band", but now we know the real reasons. Steven got canned because he couldn't keep it together, Izzy left because he discovered he'd rather chill on a farm in the desert than travel with a rock n roll circus in a jumbo jet, Slash left because he regretted one of his many weak willed decisions when he signed over the rights to the band. So he made Axl an offer he couldn't refuse. Axl refused. Then Matt was dumb enough to think his absence would be that extra straw which would make Axl cave. Duff left because the others had left, and/or because keeping clean required a change of lifestyle. 4 junkies and an angry redneck was why it all fell apart, not any one mans megalomania.

Nobody ever left the band because they had a problem with Axl Rose. He's just an easy target because so often he was the personality standing in the way of imposing their own will on what the band should be. It became a battle, he "won" and they all became bitter. But as time goes on Slash has come back crawling, Duff has no problem doing some gigs, Izzy is fine with being a contractual employee as long as he's paid and gets to keep his own schedule, Matt would mow Axl's lawn if he was let back in the band. Steven? He'd probably quite literally give him a blow job just for a one off gig.

Axl Rose living life like a Chinese Emperor may be part of the reason the band fell apart in the first place, but Slash and whatever happened there, is the only reason a reunion is out of the question today.

I've just learnt that the board has only biased Slash fans and objective GN'R fans with well-balanced opinion, so yours is an unbiased post surely.

But as a dark Slashite, I believe Axl played a major factor in their leaving. It's typical revisionism to say that old interviews don't matter, cause they are now friends (to a degree, lol, just read how Axl trashes Izzy's payment needs). Hell no. Without Axl's crazy antics and dictatorship they'd probably still be together with like a dozen amazing albums released. Just because Duff and Izzy (and even Gilby and Matt) was able to forgive and forget Axl what happened then to spend an hour or even two weeks together (cause they managed to grow up), it doesn't mean that the Axl shit wasn't unbearable back then. It's not a coincidence that everybody left (was fired). It was one of the biggest bands of all time, you just don't leave it for shit and giggles. Truth is that ONLY those old interviews matter, not their diplomatic bullshit these days.

On the other hand. Axlin has this theory that Axl must be right, cause his story wasn't told in the past 20 years. Sorry, but you need to be very keen on conspiracy theories to think this. I believe that if you had 20 years to tell your side of the story and all you gave was vague and cryptic comments, then your story is BULLSHIT (if it even exists). He can man up and start a riot anywhere in the world, but can't come up with the big "why Slash is the Devil" debunk. Please.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Axlin16 wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

I missed it, but did Axlin just self proclaim himself as a troll?  Makes perfect sense now. Nice cast there Axlin, moving along...



Bwhahahaha. Perfect... perfect. 16

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Axlin16 wrote:
Mikkamakka wrote:
polluxlm wrote:
Mikkamakka wrote:

Just like Slash, Duff and Izzy. So...?

BTW the Axl-izzy and Axl-Duff friendship are reborn/rebuilt friendships. We all know those heated interviews and lawsuits. In these cases they were able to forgive what happened (and what Axl thought that had happened). We also know that Slash would have made peace with Axl (remember the dropped lawsuit and the visit at his house)...but the answer was a bitter psycho's answer.

His point is Slash is the only one Axl can't make peace with. Whatever happened between them is something else than the typical dictator/fun was gone/drugs messed it up angle we hear from the rest of the band. If Axl being a dick was the major issue, why do everybody pretty much get along except for Axl and Slash? And even there it's not about what Axl did to Slash. Slash has shown he's more than willing to reunite and be back in the band. It's Axl who has a problem with him.

And that's why this whole quoting Izzy and Duff from 20 years ago is poor evidence for Axl being a destructive force in the band. Back then they would cite all kinds of whodunnits for why they "had to leave the band", but now we know the real reasons. Steven got canned because he couldn't keep it together, Izzy left because he discovered he'd rather chill on a farm in the desert than travel with a rock n roll circus in a jumbo jet, Slash left because he regretted one of his many weak willed decisions when he signed over the rights to the band. So he made Axl an offer he couldn't refuse. Axl refused. Then Matt was dumb enough to think his absence would be that extra straw which would make Axl cave. Duff left because the others had left, and/or because keeping clean required a change of lifestyle. 4 junkies and an angry redneck was why it all fell apart, not any one mans megalomania.

Nobody ever left the band because they had a problem with Axl Rose. He's just an easy target because so often he was the personality standing in the way of imposing their own will on what the band should be. It became a battle, he "won" and they all became bitter. But as time goes on Slash has come back crawling, Duff has no problem doing some gigs, Izzy is fine with being a contractual employee as long as he's paid and gets to keep his own schedule, Matt would mow Axl's lawn if he was let back in the band. Steven? He'd probably quite literally give him a blow job just for a one off gig.

Axl Rose living life like a Chinese Emperor may be part of the reason the band fell apart in the first place, but Slash and whatever happened there, is the only reason a reunion is out of the question today.

I've just learnt that the board has only biased Slash fans and objective GN'R fans with well-balanced opinion, so yours is an unbiased post surely.

But as a dark Slashite, I believe Axl played a major factor in their leaving. It's typical revisionism to say that old interviews don't matter, cause they are now friends (to a degree, lol, just read how Axl trashes Izzy's payment needs). Hell no. Without Axl's crazy antics and dictatorship they'd probably still be together with like a dozen amazing albums released. Just because Duff and Izzy (and even Gilby and Matt) was able to forgive and forget Axl what happened then to spend an hour or even two weeks together (cause they managed to grow up), it doesn't mean that the Axl shit wasn't unbearable back then. It's not a coincidence that everybody left (was fired). It was one of the biggest bands of all time, you just don't leave it for shit and giggles. Truth is that ONLY those old interviews matter, not their diplomatic bullshit these days.

On the other hand. Axlin has this theory that Axl must be right, cause his story wasn't told in the past 20 years. Sorry, but you need to be very keen on conspiracy theories to think this. I believe that if you had 20 years to tell your side of the story and all you gave was vague and cryptic comments, then your story is BULLSHIT (if it even exists). He can man up and start a riot anywhere in the world, but can't come up with the big "why Slash is the Devil" debunk. Please.


See Mikka, I really don't think that is as much of a conspiracy theory as you think, but I do see your point there. The reason I originally used that analogy (and got a negative karma for it, from someone 10 ) was I truely believe that Axl stays in constant defense mode for a reason.

For example, I have know people in my life which came from bad families, with very similar circumstances as Axl. Alot of abuse from all sides, verbal, physical, mental, emotional, etc. And when you have a voice in that abuse that gets quieted and quieted and stuffed down and your opinion doesn't matter, from the abuse of his step-father, to the abuse of his mother, to getting stuffed into lockers and no pussy (to quote Izzy, because apparently he knows), and so on. That person becomes bottled up with anger issues, and self-defense mechanisms, so much to the point it controls the flow of information in them to a T. They do what I call "Hyper-Process" ALL information. This is why Axl can fucking quote Izzy from a 1982 conversation at Pizza Hut in 2001, and Izzy looks like a deer in the headlights, and looks at Axl as crazy. Axl DID NOT (i'd put a HUGE sum of money on this), become that way because he was a dictator, or dictative in the traditional sense. Axl did this to protect himself from a world he felt "that owed him something" (to quote MANY people who knew him from that era), and he felt owed him because he had been SO silenced for SO many years, and he felt fully that everyone was "Out Ta Get Him".

I think Izzy wasn't far off on Axl's methods, but what I was trying to disagree with Intercourse on WAS THE REASON. "Izzy was there, he knows"... not necessarily. Izzy himself admits to mis-remembering the past, and also not even re-calling some of the same information that Axl did, and Axl threw at him.

I think Izzy has his perspective, and I DO AGREE that Axl took on some very authorative methods in Guns the more power he was able to secure. But when Axl stays defensive and stays in a mode of "fuck that guy, because he knows the truth" stuff, I think it's because of a two-pronged reason. 1) Axl doesn't believe people want the truth/his truth, and 2) Axl is absolutely/manically pissed off about it. And I think Axl stayed that way for many, many years. I recent years however, I think Axl has lightened up on it, but not for 'forgiveness' reasons. I think Axl just simply has given up on it. He himself admitted to the "damned if you do, damned if you don't" scenario, and I think Axl's case with Slash today is far closer to Indifference, than it is Anger. And that's actually worse for himself and fans. If Axl is indifferent to Slash, he simply could care less if Slash is on fire and dying. He just doesn't care anymore. Sure he knows, but he doesn't care.

Even when Axl made the "cancer" statement (a dick move, yes, but....); Axl was absolutely raped by critics and fans alike as "Axl the nazi" as always. Fuck you Axl, etc.

Now pretend your Axl, with an open mind.

Hypothetically

Axl: "I just gave my opinion, and again I get slammed unmercifully for it. Everyone thinks Slash is this great guy, but... whatever. Nobody cares what I think I guess"

That's the kind of stuff i'm talking about. He didn't say that, and YES I am putting words in his mouth, but it is HIS SILENCE that speaks volumes. If Axl says "I loved, or love the guy", BOOM REUNION STARTS NOW, and if he's honest about the past, and calls him not a team player or a cancer, suddenly he's a fucking dick, and NOTHING he says is objective or true.

Finally the guy just doesn't fucking talk about it. And at one point around 2008-09 (I think), it seemed like every interview Axl did, was somehow about Slash, or correlated to Slash. Obviously he wanted to talk about it. But you can see him, if ever, when he talks about it now, he's much more guarded and watches what he says, so much to the point, why talk about it?


Axl Rose is entitled to his opinion and perspective on the past. But there's ALOT of Gunners and fans that don't seem to think he is, and if Axl doesn't say EXACTLY what they want to hear in regards to the past, they gut him like a Steer.

That mainly is why I defend Axl sometimes. I don't think Axl is all that cool, or is all that nice. The lateness thing is full dickish. But when I see a man that NO ONE wants to defend, with an intelligent argument, I just look at the guy as he needs someone on his side, trying to see it from his pespective.

Fast forward to the present from that 1982 Axl personality. Axl is STILL in the same place he was, and has pretty much been his whole life (from his perspective). Axl now is no longer silenced--AT ALL. Axl can make a press release, write a book, post on an internet forum, do an interview, whatever he likes... but... again his words are manipulated and spun. By critics, by fans like us, by Team Brazil themselves, by lawyers, by bandmates, everyone. So now he can say whatever he wants about the past, but he's again climbing up hill because people in-general want him to say something that appeals to THEIR IDEA of HIS persona or their representation of the past.

When Axl fails to do that, which is EVERYTIME, all hell breaks loose. And at this stage, Axl has just shrugged his arms, looked to the sky with a smile and said "I can't do anything right... so why try?"

The man has an opinion and a view that he still feels as yet to be given any validation. At all. I kinda feel bad for the guy. And until he gets that validation, you will see the same Axl as always. Axl on the defense... ALL THE TIME. Axl in someways is drowning in business-created learned helplessness.

war
 Rep: 108 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

war wrote:

i think axl is, what we all seem to agree on as, a person confined and restricted by emotional wounds caused by his wicked past.
i think it causes him to be defensive and paranoid and incapable of meeting others half way.

i think slash is restricted by his need to come of as the good guy.
i think it causes him to be passive agressive and feel the need to shift all of the blame onto axl at all times when the right questions are asked.

i believe the feud between the two of them has been blown out of proportion and a lot of their negative comments about each other to the media are half hearted or less.

the bottom line to me is that they both do things much differently and want more control than the other is willing to allow. otherwise they'd be making a ton more money.

They dont hate each other they are both just happier as things are now and probably better off.

Intercourse
 Rep: 212 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Intercourse wrote:
polluxlm wrote:

And that's why this whole quoting Izzy and Duff from 20 years ago is poor evidence for Axl being a destructive force in the band. Back then they would cite all kinds of whodunnits for why they "had to leave the band", but now we know the real reasons.

Really? Whose real reasons are you using?

Steven got canned because he couldn't keep it together,

TRUE

Izzy left because he discovered he'd rather chill on a farm in the desert than travel with a rock n roll circus in a jumbo jet

FANTASY
I published the quotes from Izzy taken over several years that clearly show this statement to be wrong.

, Slash left because he regretted one of his many weak willed decisions when he signed over the rights to the band.

FANTASY
Slash left for the same Axl based reasons as Izzy and Duff with some serious brusied ego stuff included because nobody liked his Southern Rock songs.

Then Matt was dumb enough to think his absence would be that extra straw which would make Axl cave.

HALF TRUE. The part about Matt think Axl would "cave" is entirtely your own opinion.

Duff left because the others had left,

FANTASY

"After you finished the tour, the media started to talk about line-up problems in Guns N’ Roses. Was this the beginning of the band’s downfall?

D : Everything started when Slash turned his back and said : « This is shit. » [referring to their musical differences.] He and Axl didn’t talk to each other anymore. It had become quite irrational.

HF : The communication between them?

D : Yes. I was always in the middle, the one both came to see, and I got the impression I arbitrated little kids’ quarrels. Matt was never a full member of the band, he was on an ejector seat and Axl said : « I’m gonna fire him. » I answered that this decision required more than one person to be taken since we were a band, that he alone didn’t own the majority. All of this because Matt told him he was wrong. The truth is, Matt was right, and Axl wrong indeed.

HF : Wrong about what?

About schedules and the way Axl was late for the next album. Susan, my girlfriend, was pregnant. We were going to have a baby, but this band was becoming a dictatorship, everything had to get done in Axl’s way or it wouldn’t get done at all. It wasn’t like that when we started out. At one point, we were offered a huge sum of money to play a concert in Germany. I thought : « I never played for money and I’m not gonna start now! ». I’ve got a house, I’m secure financially. Post-Neurotic was the worst moment of my career in Guns. I went out for dinner with Axl and I told him : « Enough is enough. This band is a dictatorship and I don’t see myself playing in those conditions. Find someone else. »

Duff - Hard Force Magazine 1992.


The fact is that some people here prefer their OWN opinions of what happened to GNR over the accounts given in the press by actual fucking band members.
That's nuts.

I am a MASSIVE Axl fan but I view him as a band leader who could have tried to actually lead his band but chose to look after himself instead. If he had just TRIED to be a team player after AFD then he'd have my vote, even if he failed.

I always think of that story about him being on the phone to the studio going nuts that the drum sound for CD didn't sound like Nirvana. My mind was screaming "Get down to the fucking studio and sort it out yourself then, this is your band now, this shit is down to you!!!"

He wanted to do live his life like he did in the UYI days but have the whole thing to himself.
Its my deep and enduring admiration of his talent, voice and stage craft makes me so angry at all of the WASTE that followed after the rest of the old band were gone.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Matt Sorum open to Playing with Current GNR Line-up

Axlin16 wrote:

Intercourse the date on those quotes has got to be wrong. The timeline doesn't even match up. I'm assuming that's supposed to say 2002, and not 1992.


And again, your whole opinion that you won't let go of about "everything you guys say is opinion and I am posting quotes from THE BAND MEMBERS WHO WERE THERE" is again, stretched.

1) You completely ignore Axl's existence as a band member
2) No weight was ever given in any of your posts towards Axl's side
3) Izzy & Duff's statements have changed over time
4) Most of my time was based on Slash's own statements over the history of GN'R
5) Where's Steven? Oh that's right his opinion doesn't count because he was fucked up... as was Slash, Izzy & Duff, but somehow Steven is different
6) How is it that Izzy & Duff can't remember the entire tours (according numerous statements), but all these interview quotes exist... selective, or drugs?

Just pointing that out...



Izzy leaving the band for chilling is not an entire fantasy--at all. Numerous band members have agreed with Axl's statements on that, including ones that didn't like him like Slash. Izzy was incredibly uncomfortable with the fame that GN'R had by late 1991, and when Izzy left, he stated as much. He didn't spit in Axl's face and call him a dictator, he waited to be a man and do it a thousand miles away in a fucking magazine. Izzy actually left the band for the exact reason that was stated. Just because a magazine quote says otherwise, doesn't mean we don't acknowledge what and how he filed his quitting papers.

Slash leaving again is not an entire fantasy. But it's not everything either. Slash, according to his book, left for a variety of different reasons, and his quitting in 1996 was a culmination of that. From the late starts throughout the UYI tour, the fact that Slash had never forgiven Axl for calling him out at the Stones show in 1989, Axl's statement to him in 1992 when he OD'ed and Axl told him "you scared me. I thought I was going to have to replace MY guitarist", which Slash said shocked him back to life and was a statement he never forgot, feeling as it defined how Axl looked at him as just another guitarist (yet according to Duff, he still signed over the rights to the name in 1993, after this incident). Plus coupled with the fact that Slash said that he could never communicate with Axl without having to go through Doug Goldstein, Beta, or numerous lawyers, whoever, and the fact that Axl basically didn't want anything to do with working his Snakepit album into the next GN'R album, plus the dissolution of the Uzi Suicide band agreement and "taking the band name with me".... Slash quit. Alot of reasons were involved, including the one above you called fantasy.

Matt got fired, because Matt was looking to get fired. He couldn't communicate with anyone, Axl didn't talk to him, and because he was on the outs of the clique (in a nutshell), pretty much was the reason he wanted out. Of course Matt has stated NUMEROUS DIFFERENT reasons over the years that don't line up as the reason he quit... so take anything Matt says with alot of bullshit detector. Matt says whatever gets him an interview.

Duff, although I haven't read his book, has wavered in the past on the reasons behind his quitting. I have heard just as many comments about Slash, "my brother wasn't there anymore", as the reasons behind him quitting. I've also heard Duff say he quit Guns because he had gotten sober, and Axl's lack of working was causing issues with his sobriety, as well as Slash's. I've also heard Duff say he quit GN'R, so he could focus on his education, rather than recording songs with Axl which Duff wasn't a big fan of (i'm assuming the infancy of Chinese, which later after trashing Axl's musical taste, both gave thumbs up to, despite Axl's lack of fanship of their post-Guns work, or at least Slash's). I've heard Duff say alot of things, and yes I heard the dictatorship comment too. But again, I didn't hear Duff or Slash start throwing that dictator thing around, until Izzy did.


But the end part is spot on. I couldn't agree more. Axl's lack of leadership, and the fact he no longer had Slash or Duff to lean on for getting "the little things" (like studio shit, producers, session musicians, drum sound, etc.) done anymore was glaring. And instead of Axl taking that ball, he decided to let Mother Goose do it. Pitman told a story that it was he who set up an entire studio at Axl's house, and showed him how to use it. This was one of their early meetings. And then Tommy said that basically when the band wrote their instrumental parts to Chinese, Axl again--wasn't present. Axl basically contracted a band, of Robin, Paul, Tommy, Josh, Dizzy & Chris, and it was up to them. Now I have no clue how much Axl handed to them, but still....


Then again, Axl self-admittedly as well as the people around him said Axl was completely fucked mentally during this period. I think he agreed to a new album in 1998/99, somewhere around there? And then immediately regretted it, the soul searching with Yoda, all kinds of crazy Michael Jackson rumors surrounding him, coupled with him playing all of the mystical shit up being locked in his house late at night, almost no public appearences, etc.

I don't know how committed to the project Axl was anyways. But once those papers are signed, they are signed. Even Axl said as much, and it took until 2008, and even still Azoff basically blackmailed him to get it.

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