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monkeychow
 Rep: 634 

Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs

monkeychow wrote:

To me the article kind of lost credibility with the "Axl still has buckethead on speed dial" bit.

Buckethead has been gone for 12 years.

He has never expressed an interest in returning. In fact he shuns talk of GNR, most probably he was bullied the same way Ron was when he joined the band. Axl also bagged the crap out of Bucket when he left...doesn't sound like he'd be on speed dial.

Bucket is a great player, and it was "fun" to the general public that Slash was replaced by someone who wears a bucket over his head - sort of adds to the mythology of laughing at GNR.

But people who talk that way seem to think it's 2002 - and they didn't pay attention in 2006, 2009, or onwards with the newer line ups.

Also this amounts to "it's not cool cos Izzy says it's not" - but Izzy didn't even play in VR and that was kinda cool.

Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs

AtariLegend wrote:

Considering Axl's more recent comments in past several years about Buckethead and the show where he wore a Buckethead hat during a show that some fan threw on stage during a song... I think Axl definitely would have taken Buckethead back prior to this.

Bucketheads the one who dissociated himself with the band afterwards unfortunately.

monkeychow
 Rep: 634 

Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs

monkeychow wrote:

yeah I guess I don't mean to be saying Axl hates him or anything - I mean hell if slash can come back anyone can come back....

I just think there's been nothing about him coming back for real since 2004 - it's just fan speculation and wishes.

Didn't someone say in the other thread the rumoured plan was to replace Bumble with Orianthi?

Anyway, I do feel they'd be better to record than tour (although I can also see that a first 'safe step' for everyone is to tour) so i agree with the article in that sense that it's never going to be 1988 but it also feels to me like this article is a little negative for the hell of it. It's possible for older bands to still put on good shows.

Also - some of the 'magic' of the old days is good to be under the bridge. Like when I was a teen it was fun to watch Axl live out his marriage breakdown live in front of a 100k strong audience. These days I'd like to hear Slash play on TWAT, or Axl sing Anastasia. I don't really want the old school 1990s drama - I just want these guys to go back to making great music.

tejastech08
 Rep: 193 

Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs

tejastech08 wrote:

You can call it negative I guess, but the guy did say Appetite is the best rock album ever. I don't blame him for taking a cynical approach.

James
 Rep: 615 

Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs

James wrote:

To me the article kind of lost credibility with the "Axl still has buckethead on speed dial" bit.
Buckethead has been gone for 12 years.
He has never expressed an interest in returning. In fact he shuns talk of GNR, most probably he was bullied the same way Ron was when he joined the band. Axl also bagged the crap out of Bucket when he left...doesn't sound like he'd be on speed dial.

That's the point!

21st century was so bland, faceless, and irrelevant from a pop culture standpoint that they used Bucket as an example of who would be on speed dial.

Other than Tommy, Bucket was the only person in the band post 93 that the general public has any interest in. If anyone looks back on the CD era, those are the two names they'll think of,  but NIN fans will of course know Finck.

I just think there's been nothing about him coming back for real since 2004 - it's just fan speculation and wishes.

Of course he was never coming back. There was no reason to. Smartest guy involved in the whole saga. Saw what it was turning into long before anyone else.

monkeychow
 Rep: 634 

Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs

monkeychow wrote:

I guess at this stage it's reasonable to be a bit skeptical - especially in the absence of chat from the band.

Like if Axl did some interview about how he realised Slash's tone was irreplaceable and it inspired him to write again or something it would seem more organic than this tour so far which seems to be more secret-squiril stuff and it seems like Slash is just scared to comment less he break it again.

I suppose my problem with the article is this:

First of all, no Izzy, no deal. Slash liked Deep Purple when this band got together. Axl was some Midwestern podunk zero. Duff was a directionless punk rocker. Izzy’s unwavering dedication to rock’n’roll’s slithery underbelly is what shaped GN’R’s sound. He was the chief architect in this psycho circus and when he pulled out, it was over. If he’s not coming back, we shouldn’t even be discussing a reunion.

I know Izzy has some strong fans here and I do respect him, but I also feel these type of statements always undermine the importance of other aspects.

Yes, Izzy provided some song structures that turned into the band's best work. Yes, Izzy provides a stonesish classic rock vibe that perfect sits as a foil for the others. Yes, Izzy was great.

However I don't think it should be underplayed that Slash is THE player of his GENERATION - he's one of the all time great guitarists in terms of identifiable tone and iconic contributions to songs and presence on stage.

Meanwhile Axl is CONSISTENTLY voted amongst the best front men of all time, both for his stage presence, but also his (at least at his peak) FREAKISH vocal range and IMMEDIATELY identifiable unique vocal sound and texture.

Putting one of the best front men of all time with one of the best guitarists of all time holds a fair bit of significance. It just does.

While Izzy may be a secret ingredient appreciated by fans that adds enormous value, the idea held by some fans and by this article that he's the real architect of the whole thing and that everything without him was worthless just doesn't hold water to me.

Personally I enjoy Axl's songwriting on CD, Slash's guitar work on his solo albums and other things Izzy has not been part of...and there's no doubt that Axl and Slash bring their A-games to this event it could be amazing whether or not Izzy is a part of it.

otto
 Rep: 79 

Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs

otto wrote:

I guess it also shouldn't be underplayed that without Izzy, Axl and Slash could not merge their styles.

Izzy was the bonding agent. He was the cool factor between two unstable, explosive albeit phenomenal elements.

Izzy was what kept Axl real. Izzy was what provided Slash with a solid foundation to lay great riffage on.

Don't forget that once Izzy was out of the picture, Axl and Slash could not find a way to work together creatively and Axl kept going back to Iz for songs. Later on, Slash and Duff also, for VR.

Even they recognize Izzy's abilities but part of the fan base thinks it's just Axl and Slash.

Edit:
To me it's all part of the magic. Izzy has the ability to come up with great melodies and song structures, a canvas for lack of better word.
Axl comes with lyrics and further melodies that take it to the next level.
Slash comes with riffs that envelope it as Guns N Roses.

To me it's pretty clear when I listen to the solo albums. Izzys have great songs that always miss that fire. Slashs miss great vocal melodies and great song writing. Chinese Democracy lacks the riffs from Slash that is so characteristic of GNR , although the Izzy factor is not that much missed because the style is much more closer to Axls materials in UYI.

James
 Rep: 615 

Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs

James wrote:

While Izzy may be a secret ingredient appreciated by fans that adds enormous value, the idea held by some fans and by this article that he's the real architect of the whole thing and that everything without him was worthless just doesn't hold water to me.

maybe not "worthless without him" but take a peak at that post 1991 GNR discography for an example of his value to the band.

tejastech08
 Rep: 193 

Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs

tejastech08 wrote:

It's not GN'R without Izzy. That is not an attempt to downplay the other members. It isn't GN'R without them either. The band was a great mix of different sub-genres in rock and roll. Each of them brought something important to the table, even Adler.

monkeychow
 Rep: 634 

Re: Just say no to corporate cash grabs

monkeychow wrote:
James Lofton wrote:

maybe not "worthless without him" but take a peak at that post 1991 GNR discography for an example of his value to the band.

Hehe...but that's it...I'll take otto's point that without Izzy they can't agree to do anything....but when it comes to the songwriting...I feel like the only reason most of the Izzy based GNR numbers are so insanely good is because Axl and Slash added great stuff to them.

Maybe it's just my particular tastes. I know you guys will loathe me for this....but....

Like what would "Dust and Bones" be without Slash? What would 14 years be without Axl's chorus and Slash's solo? Sweet Child of Mine without Axl and Slash would be a very basic basic song.

Imo if you could get slash to play on most of the CD songs they would be better than a lot of UYI numbers....likewise something like Anastasia if it had Axl would be better than the same things.....

You guys all think Izzy is the glue that made it happen, but I'm not entirely sure, I think Izzy bailed cos Axl had taken control and he didn't like it. The same reasons that made Izzy leave caused disputes that made Axl end up not working on Snakepit and Slash give up on trying to get along for Chinese Democracy....but it's more about the power structure than Izzy's songwriting being essential for anything to work as GNR.

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