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polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

polluxlm wrote:

His main selling points policy vice for me are foreign, economic and immigration.

Since I'm not American but live in a country dancing to America's tune, I like his isolationist tendencies. If he can force my country to become more independent, great. If he can stop us doing hit missions for NATO, great. He's the only candidate offering this.

On economics he takes the anti globalist stance. Like Bernie he offers more than empty phrases about creating more jobs. He points out the problem, industry moving abroad for the cheap labor. In contrast to Bernie he doesn't blame it all on "the rich".  I despise this polarization between rich and poor. It's not all or nothing.

On immigration he points out what I consider an obvious truth, the mass importation of low skilled labor is devastating to the working and middle class. The west have spent centuries building up a relatively fair labor market, and now people come here to work a third world job earning a third world wage. It's not sustainable and it's not moral.

The reason I don't care at all about his crazy rhetoric is the uniform opposition to him from the establishment. One hand I recognize he has to do it that way to get publicity, see Ron and Rand Paul for what happens if you just stick to intelligent, sensible phrases (they ignore you into oblivion), on the other the opposition proves he is the real deal. That trumps any lack of consistency and intelligent plans, because what good are those if you'll never follow through?

Do I trust him? No, don't know him personally. Do I think he can get all this shit done? Maybe not. But it's a shot, with Hillary or any other regular candidate, I know 100% what I'm going to get. It's why I have never voted in my life. It's pointless. With Trump however I have regained faith, because they fear him. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

People like Johnson can't win, nor do they have the benefit of a defiant media giving me faith they are the real deal. That last part will sell me on any candidate. So far only Trump and the Paul's meet those criteria.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 426 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

buzzsaw wrote:

Hillary's commercial on how she's going to create millions of good jobs is laughable at best. Her policies are just as bad as trumps, yet I see none of her supporters calling out her unrealistic plans. It's mind-numbing reading some of the one sided posts here. We get it...Trump sucks. We also get that Hillary sucks too, yetc I don't hear any of you admitting that for some reason. Trump this. Trump that. Clean up your own house first because it's a disaster.

TheMole
 Rep: 74 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

TheMole wrote:
polluxlm wrote:

On economics he takes the anti globalist stance. Like Bernie he offers more than empty phrases about creating more jobs. He points out the problem, industry moving abroad for the cheap labor. In contrast to Bernie he doesn't blame it all on "the rich".  I despise this polarization between rich and poor. It's not all or nothing.

But doesn't it bother you that he says one thing, and then does another? That he preaches 'Americanism', but makes his Trump branded ties in China? Doesn't it bother you that his tax plan, vague as it was, has had to be revised significantly by outsiders to minimize the disastrous costs associated with the original? Doesn't it bother you that his whole 'business accumen' shtick is completely fabricated out of thin air?

polluxlm wrote:

On immigration he points out what I consider an obvious truth, the mass importation of low skilled labor is devastating to the working and middle class. The west have spent centuries building up a relatively fair labor market, and now people come here to work a third world job earning a third world wage. It's not sustainable and it's not moral.

But doesn't it bother you that he says one thing, and then does another? That he preaches 'Americanism', but has his buildings built by undocumented Polish immigrant workers? That he's fine with Western immigrants under the current regime? That he fails to recognize that the US has by far the strictest immigration policies and longest, most thorough review system of any Western country in place already? That his minimum wage stance basically changes with the direction of the wind?

polluxlm wrote:

The reason I don't care at all about his crazy rhetoric is the uniform opposition to him from the establishment. One hand I recognize he has to do it that way to get publicity, see Ron and Rand Paul for what happens if you just stick to intelligent, sensible phrases (they ignore you into oblivion), on the other the opposition proves he is the real deal. That trumps any lack of consistency and intelligent plans, because what good are those if you'll never follow through?

You might think that the opposition to his presidency is an indication that he is 'the real deal' (proof is too big a word for that, but I'll give you that it could be an 'indicator'), but isn't the simpler explanation that they just fear that a big part of the electorate might actually be dumb enough to vote for him and that's why they fight him so vehemently?

polluxlm wrote:

Do I trust him? No, don't know him personally. Do I think he can get all this shit done? Maybe not. But it's a shot, with Hillary or any other regular candidate, I know 100% what I'm going to get. It's why I have never voted in my life. It's pointless. With Trump however I have regained faith, because they fear him. The enemy of my enemy is my friend.

Yeah, that has worked well in the past... like the US supporting Saddam Hussein in the 80's simply because he was the enemy of their enemy.

polluxlm wrote:

People like Johnson can't win, nor do they have the benefit of a defiant media giving me faith they are the real deal. That last part will sell me on any candidate. So far only Trump and the Paul's meet those criteria.

This whole media conspiracy theory is confusing me. The mainstream media in the US is all owned by prominent right wingers, it has a demonstrably right wing bias. Isn't the simpler explanation that they know Trump's behavior is the old-people equivalent of click-bait, and they know putting a negative, faux-outrage spin on Trump stories is going to give them the best ratings? It draws in both the Trump lovers (because they love it when Trump gets airtime), and the Trump haters (because the pundits mock/challenge him).I'm not denying the media has genuine power, but when they truly want to diminish a candidate's chances they just freeze him/her out (see Gary Johnson/Jill Stein and the silly debate threshold thingy they have going on).

Now, to be fair, I'm not saying that I'm not buying your reasoning at all. I do believe Trump is different from the GOP candidates of yore, and I'm sure that does worry the right wing establishment. I'm sure the Kochs' really do feel more aligned with Hillary, and that is genuine cause for concern for the country if she gets elected. But besides being 'not Hillary' there seems to be nothing good about Trump, and a lot of things seem a whole lot worse to me.

Most Trump supporters seem to recognize his 'crazy rhetoric' (to use your words), but brush it off as posturing/campaign tactics. That is insane to me! It basically confirms that they know he's lying and/or exaggerating, but they'll vote for him anyway. They're saying that they'll vote for someone that they recognize is lying to their face!

If you're really that curious to find out what a country run by an insecure, shady, power-hungry business man looks like, have a look at what Italy was like when Berlusconi was in charge. The only difference being that Berlusconi is actually more intelligent than a sack of potatoes.

bigbri
 Rep: 329 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

bigbri wrote:

GARY JOHNSON ON 11 KEY ISSUES

Voters are so disenchanted with major-party presidential candidates that many are taking a serious look at Libertarian Party candidate Gary Johnson.

Johnson, 63, was twice elected governor of New Mexico as a Republican, serving from 1995 to 2003. He boasts that he cut taxes 14 times, balanced the state's budget and left office with a billion-dollar surplus. The Libertarian Cato Institute gave him a fiscal policy grade of "B" in 2002.

Johnson ran for president in 2012 as a Republican with a libertarian-flavored platform focused on limited government, non-interventionist foreign policy, tax reform and opposition to the war on drugs. After being "marginalized in a Republican primary that seeks rigidity and ideological purity,'' Johnson jumped to the Libertarian Party. He and running mate James P. Gray received 1.27 million votes, about 1 percent of votes cast.

In 2016, Johnson's running mate is William Weld, 71, the former two-term Republican governor of Massachusetts.

Libertarians believe in liberty, enterprise and personal responsibility. "Each individual has the right to control his or her own body, action, speech, and property. Government's only role is to help individuals defend themselves from force and fraud,'' the party's website says.

Johnson calls the Democrats and Republicans "slightly different flavors of the status quo."

Here's where he and Weld stand on 11 key issues:

TAXES
Johnson would eliminate loopholes and deductions for special interests; get rid of "double taxation'' on small businesses; and, eventually, replace taxes on income with a tax on consumption. The Libertarian Party platform calls for the abolishment of the Internal Revenue Service.

JOBS/ECONOMY
Johnson and Weld both tout their economic records as governors. They would cut over-regulation that they say is stifling entrepreneurs and small businesses.

CIVIL LIBERTIES
Johnson opposes government surveillance of private communications and financial transactions and favors an unregulated internet. He was an early supporter of gay marriage. Johnson also supports a woman's right to have an abortion. He opposes restricting gun ownership, except with respect to the mentally ill, and thinks Americans would be safer if more people carried guns. "Responsible adults should be free to marry whom they want, arm themselves if they want, and lead their personal lives as they see fit — as long as they aren't harming anyone else in doing so," his website says.

FOREIGN POLICY/MILITARY
The role of the military and foreign policy in a Johnson administration would be to "protect Americans from harm and allow us to exercise our freedoms.'' Johnson would stop using the military for "nation building'' and "policing the world," which he says has created new enemies and kept the country in a state of "perpetual war.''

IMMIGRATION
Johnson says his background as the former governor of a border state informs his understanding of immigration policy. He is critical of Trump's plan to build a wall. Johnson would make it easier for immigrants, after a background check, to get a work visa and a Social Security card so they could pay taxes.

CRIMINAL JUSTICE
Johnson believes "tough on crime'' laws have criminalized aspects of our personal lives that should not be the concern of the state. He cites the war on drugs as an example, and calls it a failure. Johnson also is critical of mandatory minimum sentences that prevent judges from using their discretion.

MARIJUANA LEGALIZATION
As president, Johnson would take marijuana off the federal government's list of controlled substances, allowing states to legalize its recreational and medicinal use. He favors taxing and regulating the marijuana business. "We need to treat drug abuse as a health issue, not a crime,'' he says.

EDUCATION
Johnson would abolish the federal Department of Education and eliminate the Common Core curriculum. He favors school choice and competition to foster innovation.

ENVIRONMENT
The Libertarian candidates would focus the Environmental Protection Agency on its core mission of protecting the environment. He and Weld say the climate "probably'' is changing and that humans "probably'' have something to do with it, but they question whether government's efforts to combat it are working, or worth the expense.

DEFICIT/BUDGET
Johnson says he would balance the federal budget by cutting military spending and reforming entitlement programs. He hasn't provided specifics on what he would cut; the National Review estimates he would have to cut the budget by 43 percent to balance it.

HEALTH CARE
Johnson says he supports a free-market health care system that lowers cost through competition. Johnson opposes the Affordable Care Act. When asked at the June 22, 2016 town hall on CNN whether he would replace Obamacare or modify it, he was noncommittal. "I'm going to assume that Republican proposals accomplish that. If the proposals don't accomplish that, then I'm not on board,'' he said.

http://www.syracuse.com/politics/index. … _stan.html

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 327 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

Smoking Guns wrote:

Gary Johnson is a little goofy too. Imagine if he had a different presentation than that of a former pot head he probably would even get more support.

PaSnow
 Rep: 200 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

PaSnow wrote:

Why'd he select 71 year old William Weld as his running mate?  WTH. Should have tried to nab Rand Paul, although he's probably hoping for a 2020 run.  Still, should've looked for some young upstart, with motivation. Not some old fuddy duddy.  Maybe he was hoping people would mistake him for Bernie Sanders.

bigbri
 Rep: 329 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

bigbri wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

Gary Johnson is a little goofy too. Imagine if he had a different presentation than that of a former pot head he probably would even get more support.

He is a bit goofy, but I don't see a lot wrong with his positions. I don't really think we need more guns, I don't think we need to start over on health care, I think he's too denial-ist on climate change, but otherwise I like what I see and hear.

So what if he's a pothead? It's gonna be legal soon anyhow.

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

polluxlm wrote:

Trump keeps gaining, now 1% off, significant spike in black support (14,1%).

http://graphics.latimes.com/usc-preside … dashboard/

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 327 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

Smoking Guns wrote:
bigbri wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

Gary Johnson is a little goofy too. Imagine if he had a different presentation than that of a former pot head he probably would even get more support.

He is a bit goofy, but I don't see a lot wrong with his positions. I don't really think we need more guns, I don't think we need to start over on health care, I think he's too denial-ist on climate change, but otherwise I like what I see and hear.

So what if he's a pothead? It's gonna be legal soon anyhow.

I don't mind the pot but he may have taken a few too many tokes. Sometimes he sounds really silly. I like him too over all. He isn't perfect but he is pretty good. I worry how he would be with our enemies. Is he a "strong" leader. That I don't know yet.

mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

mitchejw wrote:

Gary Johnson was very articulate on Bill Maher was even impressed.

Even still, libertarian policies typically do not involve themselves in social issues. This scares me....I feel as though public education would eventually disappear. In general, good guy, but the ramifications of allowing the private sector to run wild and work shit out for themselves is scary.

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