You are not logged in. Please register or login.

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

polluxlm wrote:
TheMole wrote:

But doesn't it bother you that he says one thing, and then does another? That he preaches 'Americanism', but makes his Trump branded ties in China? Doesn't it bother you that his tax plan, vague as it was, has had to be revised significantly by outsiders to minimize the disastrous costs associated with the original? Doesn't it bother you that his whole 'business accumen' shtick is completely fabricated out of thin air?

No, because I don't see inconsistency, I see strategy. His game is to say something that will cause controversy, but in such a way that he can modify it later. It gets him the publicity he wouldn't have otherwise, and it enables him to take strong positions and make it look like a softening when he starts out so crazy. On taxes I recognize his intention is solid, lowering them. It keeps productivity high and forces government to be more economic with their funds to achieve their goals. I don't worry that they will be too low since there is no set amount a government needs to run, and any actual plans would be worked out by a group of professionals. Of course this government might not be able to continue running, but that's exactly what a voter like me wants. I don't think ones business acumen can be overrated much when you have become a billionaire. He's an intelligent, rich man who raised his kids well. That last part is particularly significant when judging a man's moral character for me. Is he a choir boy? No, but neither is Hillary Clinton. 

But doesn't it bother you that he says one thing, and then does another? That he preaches 'Americanism', but has his buildings built by undocumented Polish immigrant workers? That he's fine with Western immigrants under the current regime? That he fails to recognize that the US has by far the strictest immigration policies and longest, most thorough review system of any Western country in place already? That his minimum wage stance basically changes with the direction of the wind?

You don't survive in business without taking advantage of every opportunity. That's how the market is, you either use immigrants or go under. That doesn't necessarily prevent him from wanting a change. He can do business using Americans as long as his competitors are forced to do the same. He appears to be fine with most types of legal immigrants far as I know. Not just westerners. That might be, but that doesn't stop the US from having a bunch of immigrants, legal and illegal. Too many for sustainable levels.

You might think that the opposition to his presidency is an indication that he is 'the real deal' (proof is too big a word for that, but I'll give you that it could be an 'indicator'), but isn't the simpler explanation that they just fear that a big part of the electorate might actually be dumb enough to vote for him and that's why they fight him so vehemently?

You're right, I'll say evidence instead.

That would be a simpler explanation if it was just some of them, or even most. But it's almost total. Where are all those journalists who I know must be seeing some of the same things I'm seeing? That his policies have the potential for good and that in reality he isn't all that scary? That it's a shot worth taking? Not like he's running for dictator. Can't just go wild.
They don't exist because the media hasn't been about objectivity for quite some time. It's either get with the current paradigm or lose your job. So you see this insane, concerted response when somebody threatens them, like it's a football team, or perhaps rather a cult. One of political correctness and corporate relationships. Finding the truth (on both, on all sides) and covering it is like so yesterday now. Sickening.

Yeah, that has worked well in the past... like the US supporting Saddam Hussein in the 80's simply because he was the enemy of their enemy.

It has. WWII was won that way. It's not a maxim for nothing.

This whole media conspiracy theory is confusing me. The mainstream media in the US is all owned by prominent right wingers, it has a demonstrably right wing bias. Isn't the simpler explanation that they know Trump's behavior is the old-people equivalent of click-bait, and they know putting a negative, faux-outrage spin on Trump stories is going to give them the best ratings? It draws in both the Trump lovers (because they love it when Trump gets airtime), and the Trump haters (because the pundits mock/challenge him).I'm not denying the media has genuine power, but when they truly want to diminish a candidate's chances they just freeze him/her out (see Gary Johnson/Jill Stein and the silly debate threshold thingy they have going on).

Now, to be fair, I'm not saying that I'm not buying your reasoning at all. I do believe Trump is different from the GOP candidates of yore, and I'm sure that does worry the right wing establishment. I'm sure the Kochs' really do feel more aligned with Hillary, and that is genuine cause for concern for the country if she gets elected. But besides being 'not Hillary' there seems to be nothing good about Trump, and a lot of things seem a whole lot worse to me.

Most Trump supporters seem to recognize his 'crazy rhetoric' (to use your words), but brush it off as posturing/campaign tactics. That is insane to me! It basically confirms that they know he's lying and/or exaggerating, but they'll vote for him anyway. They're saying that they'll vote for someone that they recognize is lying to their face!

If you're really that curious to find out what a country run by an insecure, shady, power-hungry business man looks like, have a look at what Italy was like when Berlusconi was in charge. The only difference being that Berlusconi is actually more intelligent than a sack of potatoes.

Conspiracies is out of style man. It's all about the natural law now. 16

Right/Left doesn't matter. Those terms are just two sides of the same coin. What they all are is establishment, and beyond anything they want to stay that way. They got a good game going, everybody profiting, and they don't want that to end. That's the common interest. Once you allow money and media to mix you will start to get those relationships. Once you allow politics and money to mix you'll get them. It's not a conspiracy, it's just good old corruption and decadence. Nothing new, and we all know where it will end if something doesn't change.

Freezing out opponents is their go to strategy and it is usually successful. Ron Paul was marginalized in that way, the independent candidates suffer it every 4 years. You'd think if the media was dominated by intelligence and objectivity these type of candidates would get a little bit of traction, but that simply isn't the case. What you get is John McCain teaming up with Sarah Palin. The honest journalist still exist, but he's fringe and has no real impact.

But I digress. With Trump that played out differently. His statements were both controversial and "simple" at the same time. Easy click bait. They had to cover him. The chance to discredit him while at the same time making profits is a tough opportunity to pass up. This had the unexpected effect of turning Trump into the front runner because a lot of people actually agreed what the media figured were kill shots. It reminds me a little of when Alexander invaded Persia, and he found growing food stuffs to feed his army for as long as the eye could see. Because the governors in the region wouldn't risk their bottom lines by burning them down. Defeating his paltry army would be easy they said. So now they're sending army after army after him, one bigger than the last.

I figure the main difference between us is that my cynicism towards the establishment is greater and my knee jerk reactions to it more ingrained. Seeing somebody like Trump defying them is like watching that Tiananmen Square picture with the guy standing in the way of a tank. That overrides any other issue I might have at the time. With Trump it has enabled me to warm up to the man. In the beginning I just liked the chaos he created, now I'm starting to come around on his policies.

If he turns out to be just another Berlusconi it would still be better than having Hillary Clinton in there. At least we could have a laugh.

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

johndivney wrote:
polluxlm wrote:

Seeing somebody like Trump defying them is like watching that Tiananmen Square picture with the guy standing in the way of a tank.

What

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

polluxlm wrote:

tia_2232234b.jpg

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

johndivney wrote:

Yea.. You've lost your mind, mate.
You've got no sense of perspective.
Or no sense for that matter.

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

polluxlm wrote:

Lost? 14

Neemo
 Rep: 480 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

Neemo wrote:

I still say if Trump becomes president then we are all well and truly fucked...the race itself has had amusing parts, sure, but...if he is elected to office i really doubt that there will be much laughing

Running his own businesses repeatedly into bankruptcy, conning people out of money time and time again to buy into his shitty products/services, the repeated lies and deceptions over his entire career and his shameless exploitation of virtually anything to make a buck should be making anyone shiver at the shear possibility of this man controlling the most powerful country/military/economies on the planet

American society is far too infatuated with celebrities...just cuz the guy is famous doesn't mean he can even lead a dog to water ... let alone lead the United States ...

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 112 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

Neemo wrote:

I still say if Trump becomes president then we are all well and truly fucked...the race itself has had amusing parts, sure, but...if he is elected to office i really doubt that there will be much laughing

Running his own businesses repeatedly into bankruptcy, conning people out of money time and time again to buy into his shitty products/services, the repeated lies and deceptions over his entire career and his shameless exploitation of virtually anything to make a buck should be making anyone shiver at the shear possibility of this man controlling the most powerful country/military/economies on the planet

American society is far too infatuated with celebrities...just cuz the guy is famous doesn't mean he can even lead a dog to water ... let alone lead the United States ...

Ignoring the false claim he repeatedly ran his businesses into the ground (how many business failed out of his total population and what is the average failure rate for someone in his position - I don't know the answer to these, but as someone who works in the WHQ for a Fortune 100, trial and error is the name of the game), everything you said applies to Clinton as well.

Lies, deceit, fraud and stretching the law to its breaking point. If you don't see that or acknowledge this (as virtually all the Clinton fanboys on this site fail to grasp) you're not an objective or informed person, just a cheerleader.

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

polluxlm wrote:

Ending up with people like Hillary as candidate for President is why you have the Trump show right now. Silliness prevails because all credibility is already lost. It truly is fitting for the way society has evolved.

slcpunk
 Rep: 156 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

slcpunk wrote:

trump.png

slcpunk
 Rep: 156 

Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread

slcpunk wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

Lies, deceit, fraud and stretching the law to its breaking point. If you don't see that or acknowledge this (as virtually all the Clinton fanboys on this site fail to grasp) you're not an objective or informed person, just a cheerleader.

I think you'll find that most aren't "Clinton fanboys" but find the prospect of a lunatic like Trump to be disastrous at best.

Board footer

Powered by FluxBB