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Re: US Politics Thread
mitchejw wrote:Let's no forget that he decreed all of this from twitter.
It's quite possible that this has absolutely no substance.
In addition, 2 republican senators have come out against the idea. Next, you'll see the the trumpeters turn on actual heros from their comfy couches.
A hilarious self own on Twitter today, just glorious.
Re: US Politics Thread
misterID wrote:How could the real head cases who want to join the military specifically for sex change surgery make it through the initial process of joining, like the tests, and then make it through boot camp? Not everyone who wants to join actually can. I nearly joined the Army and had several people I know in the Marines try to get me to join and I have a little insight into that, so I just don't see how they could join so nonchalantly. I can assure you, one of my issues in joining had nothing to do with trans people or gays.
If you lose your ding dong and can and still want to perform your duty, I don't have an issue with it at all.
You'd be shocked at who enlists into the military and for what reason. I had soldiers who were homeless before enlisting, soldiers that enlisted to get healthcare for their autistic child, soldiers that wanted the GI Bill, people that wanted to get US citizenship (the Vietnamese guy I went through boot with in 2000 had an 11 year old wife in Vietnam). I never cared why someone joined. Just that they do their damn job.
I agree, joining solely to get reassignment surgery is a hell of a gamble. But if being transgendered isn't a disqualifying condition, it can't be used to screen people out as long as they're otherwise healthy. I don't even know if that would be legal, as people who hid other medical conditions that manifested during training (a previously broken leg that wasn't reported but flares up due to high impact training was incredibly common) and were caught, were quickly discharged and sent home. I'm not concerned with that aspect.
The sole purpose of a Soldier is to deploy, to fight wars. Yea, there is a whole lot of bullshit that soldiers do that has noting to due with the military. I remember one thanksgiving my unit was the last to go home for the holiday because the Sergeant Major literally had Soldiers out picking dark colored rocks from the area in front of the Brigade HQ to make it look nicer. But as I previously said, I had 3 or 4 guys I couldn't take to Iraq because I needed their equipment (and them) in remote areas of northern Iraq where I couldn't say with complete confidence they would have access to electricity 24/7, ergo I couldn't promise their CPAP machines would always work. The Soldier can't say "I don't mind or I'll take the risk." If the soldier has been diagnosed with a medical condition, they need to have constant support according to regulations. I had a Soldier who had been diagnosed with depression, and while severe depression is generally a medical discharge, it's not always. But because my unit wasn't going to be on the of the 4 or 5 major bases in Iraq, we couldn't guarantee routine access to the anti-depressants he needed. He didn't deploy.
People who undergo gender reassignment surgery need constant medication and constant hormone injections. If anti-depressants and electricity aren't guaranteed, how the hell are climate controlled liquids like hormones going to be made available? They're not, and that's why you won't find a single example of a trans Soldier being deployed. Sure, you have a Manning type who are "trans" but keep it hidden and haven't been officially diagnosed or treated. But it's not as if there's this large contingent of "trans" soldiers in the military. Could someone with type 2 diabetes or Asthma serve in the Army, probably. But the military is the most egalitarian system there is, so as a matter of entry, no one is given special consideration. There are waivers, but those are few and far between and generally fall under "moral waivers" meaning someone who had a DUI when they were 18 and are now 25 with years of a solid record trying to join.
This isn't bigotry. This is about recognizing that the military is a lethal fighting force that needs to be able to send all of its members to the worst conditions on the planet to enforce the US' will. Sure, if you get hurt on the job they make exceptions to standards. I fucked my knees up bad in Iraq due to an injury. I couldn't/can't run anymore, so rather than have to run 2 miles in under 16 minutes, I had to walk 2.5 miles in under 34 minutes. But when i was 17 in basic training, I ran the same 2 miles to standard as everyone else.
Sorry to hear that you messed up your knees.
But they changed the requirements for you and your condition. Doesn't that just prove that they are willing to change requirements in some situations?
Lots of the incentives (GI bill, health care...etc) are there to encourage participation right? What's wrong with joining the military to get the bed insurance you can for your child with autism?
People are disqualified from the military for valid reasons relating to health or various other things. If the disqualification is based on these things relating to performance and not just because you are transgender then that's one thing. This just appears to be a move to earn political points with your base.
Re: US Politics Thread
misterID wrote:How could the real head cases who want to join the military specifically for sex change surgery make it through the initial process of joining, like the tests, and then make it through boot camp? Not everyone who wants to join actually can. I nearly joined the Army and had several people I know in the Marines try to get me to join and I have a little insight into that, so I just don't see how they could join so nonchalantly. I can assure you, one of my issues in joining had nothing to do with trans people or gays.
If you lose your ding dong and can and still want to perform your duty, I don't have an issue with it at all.
You'd be shocked at who enlists into the military and for what reason. I had soldiers who were homeless before enlisting, soldiers that enlisted to get healthcare for their autistic child, soldiers that wanted the GI Bill, people that wanted to get US citizenship (the Vietnamese guy I went through boot with in 2000 had an 11 year old wife in Vietnam). I never cared why someone joined. Just that they do their damn job.
I agree, joining solely to get reassignment surgery is a hell of a gamble. But if being transgendered isn't a disqualifying condition, it can't be used to screen people out as long as they're otherwise healthy. I don't even know if that would be legal, as people who hid other medical conditions that manifested during training (a previously broken leg that wasn't reported but flares up due to high impact training was incredibly common) and were caught, were quickly discharged and sent home. I'm not concerned with that aspect.
The sole purpose of a Soldier is to deploy, to fight wars. Yea, there is a whole lot of bullshit that soldiers do that has noting to due with the military. I remember one thanksgiving my unit was the last to go home for the holiday because the Sergeant Major literally had Soldiers out picking dark colored rocks from the area in front of the Brigade HQ to make it look nicer. But as I previously said, I had 3 or 4 guys I couldn't take to Iraq because I needed their equipment (and them) in remote areas of northern Iraq where I couldn't say with complete confidence they would have access to electricity 24/7, ergo I couldn't promise their CPAP machines would always work. The Soldier can't say "I don't mind or I'll take the risk." If the soldier has been diagnosed with a medical condition, they need to have constant support according to regulations. I had a Soldier who had been diagnosed with depression, and while severe depression is generally a medical discharge, it's not always. But because my unit wasn't going to be on the of the 4 or 5 major bases in Iraq, we couldn't guarantee routine access to the anti-depressants he needed. He didn't deploy.
People who undergo gender reassignment surgery need constant medication and constant hormone injections. If anti-depressants and electricity aren't guaranteed, how the hell are climate controlled liquids like hormones going to be made available? They're not, and that's why you won't find a single example of a trans Soldier being deployed. Sure, you have a Manning type who are "trans" but keep it hidden and haven't been officially diagnosed or treated. But it's not as if there's this large contingent of "trans" soldiers in the military. Could someone with type 2 diabetes or Asthma serve in the Army, probably. But the military is the most egalitarian system there is, so as a matter of entry, no one is given special consideration. There are waivers, but those are few and far between and generally fall under "moral waivers" meaning someone who had a DUI when they were 18 and are now 25 with years of a solid record trying to join.
This isn't bigotry. This is about recognizing that the military is a lethal fighting force that needs to be able to send all of its members to the worst conditions on the planet to enforce the US' will. Sure, if you get hurt on the job they make exceptions to standards. I fucked my knees up bad in Iraq due to an injury. I couldn't/can't run anymore, so rather than have to run 2 miles in under 16 minutes, I had to walk 2.5 miles in under 34 minutes. But when i was 17 in basic training, I ran the same 2 miles to standard as everyone else.
Good post, didn't think about sleep apnea and the regulations getting the soldiers their meds, etc.
Re: US Politics Thread
mitchejw wrote:mitchejw wrote:Let's no forget that he decreed all of this from twitter.
It's quite possible that this has absolutely no substance.
In addition, 2 republican senators have come out against the idea. Next, you'll see the the trumpeters turn on actual heros from their comfy couches.
A hilarious self own on Twitter today, just glorious.
LMAO hilarious. Maybe it's dawning on him why those gay ads have been following him around.
Re: US Politics Thread
mitchejw wrote:mitchejw wrote:Let's no forget that he decreed all of this from twitter.
It's quite possible that this has absolutely no substance.
In addition, 2 republican senators have come out against the idea. Next, you'll see the the trumpeters turn on actual heros from their comfy couches.
A hilarious self own on Twitter today, just glorious.
Lmfao...the comments are hilarious.
Re: US Politics Thread
heh heh...
Annual military spending on
Viagra: 41.6 million
Cialis: 22.8 million
Trans medical care estimated: 2.4-8.4 million
The military spends five times as much on Viagra as it would on transgender troops’ medical care
On Twitter this morning, President Trump announced a ban on transgender people serving in the military, citing “medical costs” as the primary driver of the decision.
“Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail,” the president wrote.
While Trump didn't offer any numbers to support this claim, a Defense Department-commissioned study published last year by the Rand Corp. provides exhaustive estimates of transgender servicemembers' potential medical costs.
Considering the prevalence of transgender servicemembers among the active duty military and the typical health-care costs for gender-transition-related medical treatment, the Rand study estimated that these treatments would cost the military between $2.4 million and $8.4 million annually.
The study didn't include estimates of these costs for reservists, because of their “highly limited military health care eligibility.” It also didn't include estimates for retirees or military family members, because many of those individuals may also have “limited eligibility” for care via military treatment facilities.
“The implication is that even in the most extreme scenario that we were able to identify … we expect only a 0.13-percent ($8.4 million out of $6.2 billion) increase in health care spending,” Rand's authors concluded.
By contrast, total military spending on erectile dysfunction medicines amounts to $84 million annually, according to an analysis by the Military Times — 10 times the cost of annual transition-related medical care for active duty transgender servicemembers.
The military spends $41.6 million annually on Viagra alone, according to the Military Times analysis — roughly five times the estimated spending on transition-related medical care for transgender troops.
Looked at another way, the upper estimate for annual transgender medical costs in the military amounts to less than a tenth of the price of a new F-35 fighter jet. Or a thousandth of 1 percent of the Defense Department's annual budget.
The cost of providing medical care to transgender servicemembers, in other words, is negligible, and hardly “tremendous,” as the president put it.
Re: US Politics Thread
heh heh...
Annual military spending on
Viagra: 41.6 million
Cialis: 22.8 million
Trans medical care estimated: 2.4-8.4 millionThe military spends five times as much on Viagra as it would on transgender troops’ medical care
On Twitter this morning, President Trump announced a ban on transgender people serving in the military, citing “medical costs” as the primary driver of the decision.
“Our military must be focused on decisive and overwhelming victory and cannot be burdened with the tremendous medical costs and disruption that transgender in the military would entail,” the president wrote.
While Trump didn't offer any numbers to support this claim, a Defense Department-commissioned study published last year by the Rand Corp. provides exhaustive estimates of transgender servicemembers' potential medical costs.
Considering the prevalence of transgender servicemembers among the active duty military and the typical health-care costs for gender-transition-related medical treatment, the Rand study estimated that these treatments would cost the military between $2.4 million and $8.4 million annually.
The study didn't include estimates of these costs for reservists, because of their “highly limited military health care eligibility.” It also didn't include estimates for retirees or military family members, because many of those individuals may also have “limited eligibility” for care via military treatment facilities.
“The implication is that even in the most extreme scenario that we were able to identify … we expect only a 0.13-percent ($8.4 million out of $6.2 billion) increase in health care spending,” Rand's authors concluded.
By contrast, total military spending on erectile dysfunction medicines amounts to $84 million annually, according to an analysis by the Military Times — 10 times the cost of annual transition-related medical care for active duty transgender servicemembers.
The military spends $41.6 million annually on Viagra alone, according to the Military Times analysis — roughly five times the estimated spending on transition-related medical care for transgender troops.
Looked at another way, the upper estimate for annual transgender medical costs in the military amounts to less than a tenth of the price of a new F-35 fighter jet. Or a thousandth of 1 percent of the Defense Department's annual budget.
The cost of providing medical care to transgender servicemembers, in other words, is negligible, and hardly “tremendous,” as the president put it.
That's aggregious...and further proof this ain't about cost.
Good job reading slc!!!
Re: US Politics Thread
I also know the VA spends millions on boner pills for their vets as well. Let's not say this is about costs...
It's red meat for the evangelicals, a feather in the cap for Trump and another distraction method.
So here we are again...picking and choosing who in our society gets to participate in society.
Standard Republican mantra.
