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monkeychow
 Rep: 634 

Re: Izzy: "Sometimes things don't work out"

monkeychow wrote:
elevendayempire wrote:

Finck and Bucket, much as I love them, cemented this image of post-Slash GN'R as an oddball carnival instead of the rock band they used to be.

Yeah totally....I remember watching Rock in Rio 3 with friends who are casuals. They were interested to watch the video cos they'd been fans of the UYI era a decade earlier, but the whole thing just didn't seem like it was GNR to them.

Another big part of it was Axl's voice that night.

I have a soft spot for the RIR3 show for the atmosphere and the premiere of the new songs....BUT....if you last saw Axl in UYI tour form and you're a casual....the voice change was offputting to say the least...you could maybe recover from that by looking at the familiar faces....but no...they're swapped out for the circus....and then you're shaking your head going thinking WTF about that...when pitman's synth is cranked to insane levels and overrides even the guitars....then most people check out.

Like I say...I kinda like the show anyway....but show a casual YCBM or something from that show and they will tell you about how it isn't GNR.

It's curious that we could see this but no one near Axl dared tell him.

apex-twin
 Rep: 199 

Re: Izzy: "Sometimes things don't work out"

apex-twin wrote:
monkeychow wrote:

It's curious that we could see this but no one near Axl dared tell him.

Working for Axl in the CD era was bit like the Trump White House.

You have money spent on gear, personnel, facilities. It's the genuine article. But, the leading man is hard to reach and hard to argue against. Plus, he fires people (and may also re-hire them the next day). If you keep your mouth shut and are happy to loaf around your working hours in some nights, and endure huge hours at times, this is your gig. The job takes a bite out of anyone because of the constant insecurity and general lack of direction. Things are picked and taped in on a whim. Tours are booked and scuppered. Chaos. Circus. Cash.

But that can all end if you cross the boss at the wrong time.

Re: Izzy: "Sometimes things don't work out"

johndivney wrote:
apex-twin wrote:

Working for Axl in the CD era was bit like the Trump White House.

Harsh.
All men betray, all lose heart.
I see the analogy only so far in that Axl actually, finally, produced many great moments. Madagascar, Sorry, Twat etc. The production of the songs itself a testament to his vision. He did a great job. Yea he could’ve done more but it’s not all negative, y’know?

apex-twin
 Rep: 199 

Re: Izzy: "Sometimes things don't work out"

apex-twin wrote:

Was mainly refering to the workplace environment. The Lebeis et al have been known go into histrionics to reflect the boss. There's been infighting and members bailing off because of the no-communication and amateur hour management.

But sure, Axl's got chops as a singer-songwriter, so he can deliver if the stars align. It's a matter of nerve rather than talent.

mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: Izzy: "Sometimes things don't work out"

mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:

Aren’t we talking about the fundamental difference between music and marketing?

Let’s say someone played the exact same solo or note as Slash...the hypothesis here is all that matters is who is playing it....so slash matters? More than the music...

I would say Ron and the others (well, not early Finck, but he got better) played most of the right notes.  They missed the style a bit, but it's hard to replicate sloppiness.  Music isn't just hitting notes.  There's a feel to it...some non-musicians don't hear it, but most musicians do.  I think it's why some people are more picky on some things than others.

That's true...I guess there is an art to sloppiness.

I guess it just makes me sad that more people than not only care about Axl and Slash...have you ever heard Izzy's guitar work on say...rocket queen? He was extraordinary....

Even Steven played the drums in a way that I prefer over Sorum…

but I'm paying attention to stuff that most people don't even notice. It's no wonder that popular music has regressed into what it is now...

esoterica
 Rep: 69 

Re: Izzy: "Sometimes things don't work out"

esoterica wrote:
johndivney wrote:
apex-twin wrote:

Working for Axl in the CD era was bit like the Trump White House.

Harsh.

It's an apt metaphor.

Trump was disliked from day 1 and then his administration gives off the impression of a leaky ship when they get into office.

Axl was the poster child for the breakup and not particularly liked amongst a vocal minority of fans, media, and his peers.

If anyone in Camp Axl knew anything about PR, business, project management, they could've cleared the way ahead of time. Goldstein, Merck, Leibis Crew. Not a savvy mind any one of em.

For example, "bear down and finish the record" is about as inoffensive of a rebuke from upper management as you'll get. And most of the record company seemed to be supportive. But King Axl was used to having his ass wiped and never bothered to learn the ropes outside of write/sing/show up when I wanna.

Instead the album was finished and tardy by 2000 and a punchline by 2001 and it still took 7 years after that.

Oy vey.

elevendayempire wrote:

Finck and Bucket, much as I love them, cemented this image of post-Slash GN'R as an oddball carnival instead of the rock band they used to be. Obviously it would've been exponentially easier to win fans over if they'd still had Duff, Matt, Gilby etc in the band.

I never really understood this because rock n' roll is a circus and GNR looked like glam queens when they first came out. But I suppose the image of male model Axl and tough guy Slash is more enduring.

But I think it comes down to Finck and Axl. Their images were merely the scapegoats for their performances. One couldn't play guitar, the other couldn't sing.

Buckethead proved his chops on tour and was a Guitar Hero by 2005 and well on his way to household name before it. Wasted opportunity.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 426 

Re: Izzy: "Sometimes things don't work out"

buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:

Aren’t we talking about the fundamental difference between music and marketing?

Let’s say someone played the exact same solo or note as Slash...the hypothesis here is all that matters is who is playing it....so slash matters? More than the music...

I would say Ron and the others (well, not early Finck, but he got better) played most of the right notes.  They missed the style a bit, but it's hard to replicate sloppiness.  Music isn't just hitting notes.  There's a feel to it...some non-musicians don't hear it, but most musicians do.  I think it's why some people are more picky on some things than others.

That's true...I guess there is an art to sloppiness.

I guess it just makes me sad that more people than not only care about Axl and Slash...have you ever heard Izzy's guitar work on say...rocket queen? He was extraordinary....

Even Steven played the drums in a way that I prefer over Sorum…

but I'm paying attention to stuff that most people don't even notice. It's no wonder that popular music has regressed into what it is now...

I prefer UYI over AFD so I may not be the best person to answer your post.  What attracted me to them initially was the interplay between Slash and Izzy.  Slash replicates some of it on songs like locomotive but it goes away for the most part in anything post 1992.  I prefer Matt to Steven, but I do get why people love him.

mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: Izzy: "Sometimes things don't work out"

mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

I would say Ron and the others (well, not early Finck, but he got better) played most of the right notes.  They missed the style a bit, but it's hard to replicate sloppiness.  Music isn't just hitting notes.  There's a feel to it...some non-musicians don't hear it, but most musicians do.  I think it's why some people are more picky on some things than others.

That's true...I guess there is an art to sloppiness.

I guess it just makes me sad that more people than not only care about Axl and Slash...have you ever heard Izzy's guitar work on say...rocket queen? He was extraordinary....

Even Steven played the drums in a way that I prefer over Sorum…

but I'm paying attention to stuff that most people don't even notice. It's no wonder that popular music has regressed into what it is now...

I prefer UYI over AFD so I may not be the best person to answer your post.  What attracted me to them initially was the interplay between Slash and Izzy.  Slash replicates some of it on songs like locomotive but it goes away for the most part in anything post 1992.  I prefer Matt to Steven, but I do get why people love him.

Sorum has his moments...his work on You Could BE Mine was top notch. Don’t think Steven would’ve played it that way.

There are some YouTube videos that isolate Izzy’s track on some song...you should check it out. I was blown away.

Axlrose14
 Rep: 0 

Re: Izzy: "Sometimes things don't work out"

Axlrose14 wrote:
dalethirsty wrote:

the whole situation with izzy is a bummer.

the writing was on the well when he did a song about money with matt sorum of all people.

Izzy, FP Money wrote:

They can fight about it, money, some bag of gold.
They can fight about it, money, the big wheels roll.
And I’m taking the long way home today.
Really got no worries either way.
Cuttin’ deals, shakin’ hands,
hopin’ it feels, open plans.
They can fight about it, money, it’s just a bag of gold.
They can fight about it, money, feel the big wheels roll.
And I’m taking the long way home today.
Really in no hurry either way.

as much as i love him, the truth is izzy never would have worked as a full-time member of this massive touring machine.

he's much more suited for a one-off appearance at a big show. if we saw it with adler, it's possible we see it with izzy, but i'm not holding my breath.

If Izzy didn't want to tour full time, he wouldn't have asked for an equal cut of the loot. I would have given him a chance, If Axl Rose is being held legally liable to show up on time with his checkered past, they could have worked izzy in

Axlrose14
 Rep: 0 

Re: Izzy: "Sometimes things don't work out"

Axlrose14 wrote:
zombux wrote:
mitchejw wrote:

Izzy’s job, amongst other things...was to had layers to the songs but also make slash sound even more killer than he already was...you have to see a little humility in that. In a band full of huge egos, he may have had the smallest of huge egos.

IF he joined the NITL circus, I think he would still be in tandem with Fortus. there was no need to sack Fortus and it seems everyone is happy with him in the band - so it would remain 3 guitar thing, probably.

I was always under the impression from my source at Livenation 2-3 years back that this was the original plan. The plan for the reunion was the band to be Axl, Slash, Izzy, Duff, Steven and Dizzy. But to compromise with Axl then Fortus, Frank and Pitman (eventually Melissa instead) would be kept around to fill out sound and be like a backup quarterback situation incase Izzy spooked and bailed or Steven fell off the wagon. Shame. All over Axl's ego

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