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otto
 Rep: 81 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

otto wrote:
AtariLegend wrote:

Finck plays alot of the best parts of these tracks that everyone seems to credit Bucket for.

Not just the credit but Robin was really unique in playing style and, I've said this many times over the years, was Axl's gateway to MOVE FORWARD.
Once Axl, the record company or Yoda wanted to be nostalgia, Robin was not happy...

PaSnow
 Rep: 203 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

PaSnow wrote:
otto wrote:
AtariLegend wrote:

Finck plays alot of the best parts of these tracks that everyone seems to credit Bucket for.

Not just the credit but Robin was really unique in playing style and, I've said this many times over the years, was Axl's gateway to MOVE FORWARD.
Once Axl, the record company or Yoda wanted to be nostalgia, Robin was not happy...

I feel Axl kinda botched it tho. Even those first tours (08?), for years it was mostly AFD/UYI with 3 myb 4 CD songs mixed in. I mean, everyone raved about BH's Nighttrain solo's over & over again. Was The Blues played live? I recall Better & CD being the main ones, and Maddy myb. Anyway, Axl did a pretty poor job of not excaping the past ever & going full steam into Nu-GnR.

If he could redo it, a better way would be release CD in 2002, a followup in 2006, tours for each, by 06 play mostly newer sets. Myb 50/50 but have a less predictable setlist, just do SCOM, WTTJ, & PC and mix in 2 or 3 others randomly.

otto
 Rep: 81 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

otto wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

Axl did a pretty poor job of not excaping the past ever & going full steam into Nu-GnR.

Completely agree. I think Axl thought that just putting the new guys on would be a bold enough move - given his confidence (or lack thereof) at the time.
It wasn't bold enough.

sp1at
 Rep: 34 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

sp1at wrote:

It's interesting to read Axl's comment on previous leaks.

“Having someone jeopardize your efforts so cavalierly is pretty much a nightmare,”

“I don't know that it hurt us though, at least as one might think. Hard to say.

“That's not to imply leaks don't hurt artists, but that they were earlier roughs and the level of sound quality is much higher with the finals.”

“That said, you have those who become emotionally attached to how the leaks sound, which, for better or worse, usually isn't so great to contend with.

“And it seems that those who often do so and complain publicly, oddly and coincidentally, have a history of basically being detractors as well even if they're somehow considered part of a ‘fan’ base.”

It implies he will be reading what people are saying about the songs, but I think on the whole, the feedback has been positive

It's interesting.

sp1at
 Rep: 34 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

sp1at wrote:

Interview with Bob Ezrin

I’ve read that at some point during the Guns N' Roses lengthy “Chinese Democracy” recordings, Axl Rose called you to evaluate what he had already done. What really happened?

Hm.. Well.. (ed:pause) I’m not sure!! (laughs)

I’ve read that you told him he had about 2 ½ songs or 3 ½ songs. Something like that.

Yeah, I probably did. It started off when Jimmy Iovine (ed: producer, chairman of Interscope/ Geffen) asked me for a big favour.
They were stuck, they were stuck in a studio in North Hollywood for years with Roy Thomas Baker (ed: Queen’s producer), and nothing was happening. They were paying enormous rental bills and they were paying people to sit around the studio waiting for Axl to show up and it was just a disaster.
I agreed to go there immediately and listen to a bunch of stuff. What I heard was – I don’t know how to say this without be insulting, I don’t want to be insulting because he worked very hard on it – but what I heard was something that he had painted over too many times. So, by the time I heard it, the original content was lost and it was just a highly produced piece of something…
Anyway, I agreed to help out if Axl would agree to work with me, which he did. He had the idea that the only person who could finish the album with him was me, based on what I don’t know. I came, I listened, I said to him I will listen and will give you notes we will see together. I spent a lot of time listening. I went to see Jimmy Iovine and I gave him my perception of the situation, including the fact that they had to get out of Rumbo Studios immediately – not because Rumbo is a bad studio, it’s a wonderful studio – but because they needed to be closer to the scrutiny of the record company and Jimmy’s team, so there could be at least some measure of control. And I recommended we move them to the Village Recorder in West Hollywood. So, they did that, and moved everybody there.
I had to wait to talk to Axl because he avoided me. He was nervous about hearing what I had to say. We finally met, on a night when my wife – who was then my girlfriend – came down from Toronto to visit me and we were having a dinner with friends at my house. She was cooking when I got a phone call from Jimmy Iovine saying that I needed to come meet Axl and I said “I can’t tonight. I’m booked”. And Jimmy replied saying “ok” (laughs). No he didn’t. When he wants something, he really knows how to get it. Anyway, he basically guilt-tripped me and I told him “Ok, I will be there at 8pm and I will leave there at 8.30, whether Axl shows up or not”, because that was Axl. Because last time we had an appointment at 10pm and Axl showed up at 2 in the morning. “So tell Axl that’s it”.
I went to the restaurant at 8 and a team of Axl supporters and hangers-on showed up and joined me at the table – and no Axl. Axl finally came about 8:25 (laughs). Anyway, I told him basically what you’ve heard. I didn’t tell him “you have 2 ½ songs” and when he sat down, he started saying me that he has finished the record. And I said “Axl, we are not ready to mix this record. This record isn’t ready to be mixed”.
I said “there are two great songs on it and I know that you’re capable of more, that’s the reason why I’m here. You’re such a great talent and I would do you a disservice if I didn’t tell you the truth, which is that most of the songs aren’t great. But I‘m very happy to help you get there and I believe that it’s possible, if you would like to continue to work on the record, to make it better”.
He said “I don’t agree with that. We are ready to mix”. And I told him “you have my number, if you change your mind let me know, but I have a dinner party at home now and I had to go”.
I left and I haven’t heard from him since. It was years later when it came out.

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

misterID wrote:

Fuck Bob Ezrin.

He wants writing credit, that's what it all comes down to, those residuals. Look at nearly every album he's produced and look at the songwriting credits. These leaks confirm he was completely full of shit. The songs were/are fantastic.

sp1at
 Rep: 34 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

sp1at wrote:
misterID wrote:

Fuck Bob Ezrin.

He wants writing credit, that's what it all comes down to, those residuals. Look at nearly every album he's produced and look at the songwriting credits. These leaks confirm he was completely full of shit. The songs were/are fantastic.

Completely agree

I posted it for reference as we can now hear what he heard at the time

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

AtariLegend wrote:

Definitely siding with Axl.

The music was ready to be mixed and that was back when albums still sold well (Napster era, but nothing like today). It'd have sold several million copies by default, then everyone could have moved on.

Perhaps a reunion would have happened quicker or maybe Axl would have released more albums.

Better might not have been ready, but it was clear at least Atlas/Perhaps/Chinese Democracy/I.R.S./The Blues/Madagascar/Catcher/Ryiad/Prostitute/Hardschool/Silkworms/State of Grace were ready to mixed/mastered. You can argue that There Was A Time was heighted by Buckethead, but it could have been finished too nevermind other tracks their might be vocals on. Erzin was wrong.

Side note; Erzin is credited for track sequncing on the Fragile (Nine Inch Nails double album from 1999). If you've never heard it, State of Grace musically sounds heavily like it's from the same album.

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

Sky Dog wrote:

Don’t need State of Grace or Silkworms for that album.

PaSnow
 Rep: 203 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

PaSnow wrote:

2-3 is a stretch.

You've got:
The Blues
CITR
TIL
Prostitute
Better &/or CD

Which, for all intents & purposes, one would likely say are pretty impressive upon first listen of GnR again. If anything, maybe it was 'ballad-heavy', and aside from them lacked a certain style or genre. When you add in Sorry, which I could see someone not believing too much in the rough cut, it coulda been too much of a ballad album, "Where's the rock?"

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