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misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

misterID wrote:

I'm actually glad CD II never materialized after Bucket left. Now we won't have Ron shitting all over these songs, especially Perhaps. RTB, imo, helped elevate a lot of these songs. The worst thing to happen to Chinese Democracy was Ron and that's exactly where the "denseness" comes from.

James
 Rep: 628 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

James wrote:

The 'denseness' started long before Ron walked in. We are listening to the proof. No offense to bucket but he was basically Ron before Ron. Other than his writing credits, he's simply adding on to already finished tracks.



I love all of Tommy's interviews post album release. Wish he could've been that candid much earlier.

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

misterID wrote:

Bucket was way more organic to the songs. I can't even listen to TWAT or IRS without it sounding incomplete.

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

Sky Dog wrote:

Denseness comes from Richard Ron and Bucket. Bucket was needed for solos only....those solos were very badly needed though! bucket

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

AtariLegend wrote:

Buckethead made the material better, though it was fine as it was.

Bumblefoot made the material worse. Yes, he was fantastic for the community. However not for for songs.

I think it's acceptable if they wait till 2002, only because Buckethead and perhaps whatever Beltrami added. However these tracks still should have been released in 2000.

I really hope we hear that This I Love that was rejected for What Dreams May Come in 98 one day.

James
 Rep: 628 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

James wrote:
misterID wrote:

Bucket was way more organic to the songs. I can't even listen to TWAT or IRS without it sounding incomplete.

When listening to the title track I keep expecting bucket to come in right after Finck but it doesn't. Yes to our ears after hearing these songs for 20 years  different forms they sound incomplete to an extent. On the other hand, listen as if you were hearing it in 2000. The title track is locked and loaded and ready to roll.   9   IRS stomps ass with Bucket but the song is good as is and had it been released then, the bucket version never exists.

The whole thing is ready.  Just because a layer of Bucket on various tracks improves them doesn't change this fact.

Stinson was right. Listen to the recent leaks and then listen to the 2007-08 leaks and the album. The songs were turned into something they weren't. Hell, entire songs are buried under songs. A lot was lost in translation from point A to point Z.

IMO these songs vindicate Finck and Tobias. It is not a bad combo and barely got any attention.

One more thing... Tommy's bass tone on the title track is sweet.


I'd also like to hear that lineup's version of TIL. A stripped down version of that song would be great.

harmon420
 Rep: 18 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

harmon420 wrote:
James wrote:
misterID wrote:

Bucket was way more organic to the songs. I can't even listen to TWAT or IRS without it sounding incomplete.

When listening to the title track I keep expecting bucket to come in right after Finck but it doesn't. Yes to our ears after hearing these songs for 20 years  different forms they sound incomplete to an extent. On the other hand, listen as if you were hearing it in 2000. The title track is locked and loaded and ready to roll.   9   IRS stomps ass with Bucket but the song is good as is and had it been released then, the bucket version never exists.

The whole thing is ready.  Just because a layer of Bucket on various tracks improves them doesn't change this fact.

Stinson was right. Listen to the recent leaks and then listen to the 2007-08 leaks and the album. The songs were turned into something they weren't. Hell, entire songs are buried under songs. A lot was lost in translation from point A to point Z.

IMO these songs vindicate Finck and Tobias. It is not a bad combo and barely got any attention.

One more thing... Tommy's bass tone on the title track is sweet.


I'd also like to hear that lineup's version of TIL. A stripped down version of that song would be great.

This. I love bucket and his contributions to the album, but these songs were great and ready as they stood. It's a tragedy that this wasn't released in 2000. Hearing some of these "stripped" down versions really makes me think this band could have had an Audioslave like run.

James
 Rep: 628 

Re: Better, As it Began instrumentals

James wrote:
jimmythegent wrote:

I I think Ezrin was bang on. Sure an album could have been delivered but I think he was more commenting on it being up to the legacy of prior Guns albums

That is probably what he meant...and I'll pull a Bill Clinton and agree and disagree with that sentiment.



AFD is untouchable. Period.

Lies is damn good but won't make any greatest albums ever lists.

Clearly they started losing the plot with the UYI saga

TSI has some damn good covers and monster production but let's be real...it's TSI.

An amazing band with an unstable lineup and one untouchable record.

I don't think the 97-00 lineup(s) deserved to be held to an unrealistic standard.

IMO the songs we've heard blow at least half of the illusions out of the water. It didn't deserve to be thrown back in his face.

I never had much of an issue concerning the use of the name but it does seem as if the name was an albatross on the project.

You're dead on about the hype. It was out of control right from the get go. Hype certainly helped fuel the Illusions but as we now know, this was a different ballgame.

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