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Wilco
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Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

Wilco wrote:

Back in the summer of 1996, GN’R had instrumentally completed a song that was meant for a Jackie Chan film. This was confirmed both by an interview with Duff back in 1996, and by Matt in his book.

When HS traded as a bootleg years before its eventual release, it went by the name “Jackie Chan.” Now, its possible someone listened to that Duff interview - but then again, it was a really obscure reference buried in a solo Howard Stern appearance. It’s also possible that Jackie Chan was a working title for another song.

Axl confirmed that Jackie Chan was a working title for a song dubbed “Checkmate” by the fans (he said Checkmate was a fake title). But was this song what we would come to know as HS?

If so, is it perhaps pure coincidence that they were working on a song for a Jackie Chan movie in 96 that stand out to both Duff and Matt AND Axl happened to give (perhaps a later) song a working title of Jackie Chan?

Or does the song in some way branch back to 1996? Fortus did say songs for the “next record” were grown from seeds laid down by Slash, implying they’d worked on material that was initially done while Slash was still in tow

I know there’s obviously no way for anyone here to know “the answer”, but I am curious on YOUR answers

Thx in advance smile

davegnfnr2k
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Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

davegnfnr2k wrote:

I think if it was Axl would have mentioned it before playing it live on tour.   
And even if it was the song would be vastly different musically because the locker room version has BH and Robin written all over it.
Plus I cant see Axl putting anything on any of the albums from the 99-02 band with writing credits from slash or duff.

Someone should ask Duff  though if HS was written in 96.

Also remember that the original track list to CD was a little different and a couple of songs got swapped out bc of the leaks.
I do wonder if Hard School was one of the tracks that were going to make CD and were replaced by one of the leaks.
Wasn't CITR supposed to be on the "3rd album"

Wilco
 Rep: 1 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

Wilco wrote:
davegnfnr2k wrote:

I think if it was Axl would have mentioned it before playing it live on tour.   
And even if it was the song would be vastly different musically because the locker room version has BH and Robin written all over it.
Plus I cant see Axl putting anything on any of the albums from the 99-02 band with writing credits from slash or duff.

Someone should ask Duff  though if HS was written in 96.

Also remember that the original track list to CD was a little different and a couple of songs got swapped out bc of the leaks.
I do wonder if Hard School was one of the tracks that were going to make CD and were replaced by one of the leaks.
Wasn't CITR supposed to be on the "3rd album"

The main structure is very Slash-like, very classic Guns. Only the pre riff intro (which was removed) and verse riffing and the  outro tapping/shredding are Paul/Finck staples. The main structure and riff is very much like a Slash riff, especially if you consider his stuff from 95-2000

Also, HS was credited to Axl, Slash, Duff, Paul, Robin, Tommy. No BH credit on HS.

Per Marc Canter, Axl has indicated back in 2001 that there were 3 songs Axl wanted to have Slash be on on CD, if Slash would publicly apologize and repudiate statements Axl felt were lies. So in 2000-2001 his feelings hadn’t really turned to the visceral hatred for Slash that they did by 2008. Slash’s book, the 2005 visit, and I’m sure other things we don’t know about behind the scenes did a lot to harden his feelings more after 2001. If you go back and read his RS interview from 2000, he sounds more regretful/sad than hateful regarding Slash.

polluxlm
 Rep: 216 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

polluxlm wrote:

I think it was 2002 before the tour when Axl posted a big statement which was all basically about Slash and how he was a cancer.

While in 2006 he said "he had love for him and wish him the best", before the visiting his house thing turned it sour again.

It seems it was meeting the world in 2001 and 2002 that turned up his hatred for Slash. He realized how much him leaving had damaged his own brand. In a sense it was the first time Axl personally felt the damage and it pissed him off. Tour wasn't selling, media was hostile and the record company wanted a reunion.

Wilco
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Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

Wilco wrote:
polluxlm wrote:

I think it was 2002 before the tour when Axl posted a big statement which was all basically about Slash and how he was a cancer.

While in 2006 he said "he had love for him and wish him the best", before the visiting his house thing turned it sour again.

It seems it was meeting the world in 2001 and 2002 that turned up his hatred for Slash. He realized how much him leaving had damaged his own brand. In a sense it was the first time Axl personally felt the damage and it pissed him off. Tour wasn't selling, media was hostile and the record company wanted a reunion.

The cancer statement was in around 2012 or 2013. It was sometime post 2010

This was his 2002 press release, portion regarding Slash

“Originally I intended to do more of an Appetite style recording but with the changes in the band's dynamics and the band's musical influences at the time it didn't appear realistic. So, I opted for what I thought would or should've made the band and especially Slash very happy. Basically I was interested in making a Slash record with some contributions from everybody else. There'd still be some chemistry and some synergy happening and whatever dynamics anyone else could bring in to the project. It seemed to me that anytime we got close to something that would work, it wasn't out of opinion that Slash would go ‘hey it doesn't work', but it was nixed simply because it did work. In other words, ‘Whoa, wait a minute. That actually might be successful, we can't do that.' People like to call me paranoid. It has nothing to do with paranoia; it was to do with reality. If the material were strong enough for me to sink my teeth in then I would still be in a certain public position in regards to Guns, we'd have possibly still held a certain popularity with the public as I have previously been fortunate enough to have had. Slash and his ex-wife Renee and his security guy and closest confidant at the time, Ronnie Stalnacker could not live with that. It's not something Slash could live with. Slash chose not to be here over control issues.

"Now people can say ‘Well Axl, you're after control of the band too.' You're damn skippy. That's right. I am the one held responsible since day one. When it comes to Guns n' Roses, I may not always get everything right but I do have a good idea about getting things from point A to point B and knowing what the job is that we have to do. Within those parameters, I give everyone as much freedom to do what they want something Slash has verified in several interviews. Had Slash stepped up and written what we captured glimpses of, it would have created an environment that was beyond Slash's ability to control. He did not want to do that or put himself through the rigors of taking the band to that level even if he was capable of writing it. Was he capable of doing it? Absolutely 100%. I think that some of the riffs that were coming out of him were the meanest, most contemporary, bluesiest, rocking thing since Aerosmith's Rocks. The 2000 version of Aerosmith Rocks or the 1996 Aerosmith Rocks by the time we would have put it out. I don't know if I would have wanted to even do a world tour at the time but I wanted to put that record together and could we have done it? Yes. It's not something I would want to approach (without Slash) because at the time there was only one person that I knew who could do certain riffs that way. We still needed the collaboration of the band as a whole to write the best songs.

"Since none of that happened, that's the reason why that material got scrapped. If one were to say well then why not do it now there are several reasons.1) My band, too much time, too much effort and hardship. Confidence in our material. Excitement in watching this grow and being a part of the whole experience. 2) Money. You get what you play for and nothing's free. Can you cover the cost of this venture and its financial potential that I am just supposed to walk away from and for what? To where? I do not believe in any true effort or potential regarding most of my past relationship from the other party or parties, creatively or emotionally. Without that the money from a reunion doesn't mean much and though I'm sure the alumni is up for it for me it would be as or more lacking than it was during our attempts to work together previously. As a friend and former friend of Slash said to me in regards to working with Slash, "you can only do so many pull ups." This is my shot and you can root for me to fail all you want, but there is simply way too much put into this to cater to someone else's selfish needs and destroy peoples dreams I truly care about including my own. Not too mention that though I've fought what feels like the heart of the nature of this entire industry, my own people would probably eat me alive if I opted for a lesser course. 3) Slash has lied about nearly everything and anything to nearly everyone and anyone. It's who he is. It's what he does. Duff's support for the man though understandable in one sense in regard to his circumstances, is inexcusable, and furthers my distance from the two of them. For me Matt doesn't figure into the equation and for as much as I was a friend to him he was incapable of reciprocating and life is much better without such an obvious albatross. Don't get me wrong, I'm not taking anything away from the alumni in regard to their prior performances on record or touring to support the albums. I know how I was treated and more importantly I know how they treated others during both of these things, it's not a way anyone should be forced or even asked to work. And for the record I'm referring to Slash and Matt in regards to their actions and behavior, Duff played more of a supporting role (for reasons I've never understood). For the fans to attempt to condemn me to relationships even only professional with any of these men is a prison sentence and something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy. I'd say my parole is nearly over. I'm practically a free man and if you don't like it you'll have plenty of time to get used to the idea."

Wilco
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Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

Wilco wrote:

In November 1999, Axl said this regarding Slash

Slash’s name pops up repeatedly, invoked in a way that suggests a shellshocked husband speaking of an ex-wife after a particularly horrific divorce. “It is a divorce,” Rose says with a sad stare. In retrospect, Rose sees the band’s massive success as part of its undoing. “The poverty is what kept us together,” he says. “That was how we became Guns n’ Roses. Once that changed …” He turns momentarily quiet. “Guns n’ Roses was like the old Stones or whatever,” he says. “Not necessarily the friendliest bunch of guys.”

''I never said that I was bitter,'' Rose explains, characteristically concerned with making fine distinctions. ''Hurt, yeah. Disappointed. I mean, with Slash, I remember crying about all kinds of things in my life, but I had never felt hot, burning tears...hot, burning tears of anger. Basically, to me, it was because I am watching this guy and I don't understand it. Playing with everyone from Space Ghost to Michael Jackson. I don't get it. I wanted the world to love and respect him. I just watched him throw it away.''

ClaudeF
 Rep: 13 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

ClaudeF wrote:

“Playing with everyone from Space Ghost to Michael Jackson.”

As opposed to singing for Scooby …

I wouldn’t mind it if the man also allowed us to hear and buy actual GNR material.

Vale
 Rep: 3 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

Vale wrote:

Axl introduced Hard Skool in Sevilla this summer with "Here’s a new song I wrote about 20 years ago!". If it was written with Slash/Duff he would have said "we"...

Also they would have deleted the credits of Robin/Tommy/Paul if they weren't the real writers - just like they did with Pitman on Silkworms

misterID
 Rep: 473 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

misterID wrote:

I think it was a Robin/Tommy/Freese song. Duff and Slash probably got credit for restructuring the song

polluxlm
 Rep: 216 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

polluxlm wrote:

The connection to Checkmate and Jackie Chan needs to be explained. That can't be a mere coincidence.

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