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monkeychow
 Rep: 650 

Re: How big of a deal was Steven being fired when it happened?

monkeychow wrote:

Everyone in classic GNR adds their flavour that makes the sound.

But I think to the casual listener who isn't a deep music fan the most obvious aspects are Axl's raspy tone and Slash's unique guitar sound.

Which isn't to discount the other members, swapping them out makes a difference, but it's much more subtle.

To non-musicians and casual-fans you can replace stuff like rhythm guitar and drums and it doesn't matter.

I think that's what tricked Axl into thinking he'd get away with replacing the whole band for a while. But it turns out Slash was not someone you can swap out so easily.

James
 Rep: 652 

Re: How big of a deal was Steven being fired when it happened?

James wrote:

To non-musicians and casual-fans you can replace stuff like rhythm guitar and drums and it doesn't matter

But that wasn't really the problem here.

The biggest issue after he walked out the door was losing your songwriter.

Rhythm guitar players are a dime a dozen....Grade A songwriters are priceless and irreplaceable.

It's 2022 and he still hasn't been replaced.


I think that's what tricked Axl into thinking he'd get away with replacing the whole band for a while. But it turns out Slash was not someone you can swap out so easily

Neither was Izzy.

Link31
 Rep: 0 

Re: How big of a deal was Steven being fired when it happened?

Link31 wrote:

Thought I would chime in. In 1990 the fans, the radio, magazines & MTV wanted anything and everything to do with GN'R. KOHD came out as a single but no video, so MTV released the Ritz '88 version as an MTV Exclusive. It even said this on the bumpers to the video. As soon as Civil war was released on that compilation the radio played it too. MTV would have GN'R Saturdays where they would play 90% GN'R videos, which included The Ritz and the GN'R Rockumentary. It was Glorious. I was a teenager and was obsessed with the band, so I remember it all clearly.

James
 Rep: 652 

Re: How big of a deal was Steven being fired when it happened?

James wrote:
Link31 wrote:

Thought I would chime in. In 1990 the fans, the radio, magazines & MTV wanted anything and everything to do with GN'R. KOHD came out as a single but no video, so MTV released the Ritz '88 version as an MTV Exclusive. It even said this on the bumpers to the video. As soon as Civil war was released on that compilation the radio played it too. MTV would have GN'R Saturdays where they would play 90% GN'R videos, which included The Ritz and the GN'R Rockumentary. It was Glorious. I was a teenager and was obsessed with the band, so I remember it all clearly.

Yeah...this is my recollection as well.

Fans wanted videos and due to no KOHD video, they had to whip one up out of the Ritz show.

I'll never forget that wacky MTV contest where you could win Axl's condo since he had to get away from his neighbor from hell.

It got a lot of attention...and while it's not an album highlight, kinda surprising in hindsight that they didn't do some kind of MTV promotion with Right Next Door to Hell when it was finally released.

Wilco
 Rep: 1 

Re: How big of a deal was Steven being fired when it happened?

Wilco wrote:
James wrote:

To non-musicians and casual-fans you can replace stuff like rhythm guitar and drums and it doesn't matter

But that wasn't really the problem here.

The biggest issue after he walked out the door was losing your songwriter.

Rhythm guitar players are a dime a dozen....Grade A songwriters are priceless and irreplaceable.

It's 2022 and he still hasn't been replaced.


I think that's what tricked Axl into thinking he'd get away with replacing the whole band for a while. But it turns out Slash was not someone you can swap out so easily

Neither was Izzy.

Izzy was I would say ten times more irreplaceable than Slash. Imagine say, Buckethead’s guitar playing but backed by Izzy’s songwriting. That would’ve been something amazing to hear, I wager.

Slash is proven to not exactly be a terrific songwriter. Izzy was not only an amazing songwriter for Guns but arguably what tethered Axl’s ego to earth.

Wilco
 Rep: 1 

Re: How big of a deal was Steven being fired when it happened?

Wilco wrote:
James wrote:
Link31 wrote:

Thought I would chime in. In 1990 the fans, the radio, magazines & MTV wanted anything and everything to do with GN'R. KOHD came out as a single but no video, so MTV released the Ritz '88 version as an MTV Exclusive. It even said this on the bumpers to the video. As soon as Civil war was released on that compilation the radio played it too. MTV would have GN'R Saturdays where they would play 90% GN'R videos, which included The Ritz and the GN'R Rockumentary. It was Glorious. I was a teenager and was obsessed with the band, so I remember it all clearly.

Yeah...this is my recollection as well.

Fans wanted videos and due to no KOHD video, they had to whip one up out of the Ritz show.

I'll never forget that wacky MTV contest where you could win Axl's condo since he had to get away from his neighbor from hell.

It got a lot of attention...and while it's not an album highlight, kinda surprising in hindsight that they didn't do some kind of MTV promotion with Right Next Door to Hell when it was finally released.

Im kinda surprised RNDTH (say in an edited version omitting the “fuck you”) was never considered for a single. I mean, they released Garden of Eden as a single. Would argue Next Door was more radio friendly than Garden of Eden.

Wilco
 Rep: 1 

Re: How big of a deal was Steven being fired when it happened?

Wilco wrote:
James wrote:

I'll never forget that wacky MTV contest where you could win Axl's condo since he had to get away from his neighbor from hell.

August 27th, 1991

AKRON, Ohio-“I thought it was a one in a million chance,” said a Ohio college student who is grand prize winner of MTV’s Evict Axl Rose Contest.

The grand prize: rock star Axl Rose’s lavish condominium in Los Angeles.

Actually, her chances of winning were 1 in 400,000.

Erika Alden, 21, a University of Akron senior, sent in only one postcard for a chance at the condo.

MTV officials would not say how much Alden’s prize is worth, but a report from the Los Angeles Board of Realtors listed the average price for homes sold in the Hollywood Hills West neighborhood in the past three months at $426,229. The price could be more or less, depending on space, location and amenities.

Alden and a guest — she’s taking boyfriend Carmen Carcelli — will fly to Los Angeles in September to attend the Axl Rose eviction party, where the Guns N’ Roses leader will personally hand over the deed.

Alden said she was in shock when MTV officials telephoned her. “I was so excited, but I was so calm. I didn’t want to make a fool of myself.”

Two days after the phone call, she received paper work. “That’s when I think it really hit me.”


https://www.a-4-d.com/t3684-1991-08-27- … r-axl-rose

James
 Rep: 652 

Re: How big of a deal was Steven being fired when it happened?

James wrote:
Wilco wrote:
James wrote:
Link31 wrote:

Thought I would chime in. In 1990 the fans, the radio, magazines & MTV wanted anything and everything to do with GN'R. KOHD came out as a single but no video, so MTV released the Ritz '88 version as an MTV Exclusive. It even said this on the bumpers to the video. As soon as Civil war was released on that compilation the radio played it too. MTV would have GN'R Saturdays where they would play 90% GN'R videos, which included The Ritz and the GN'R Rockumentary. It was Glorious. I was a teenager and was obsessed with the band, so I remember it all clearly.

Yeah...this is my recollection as well.

Fans wanted videos and due to no KOHD video, they had to whip one up out of the Ritz show.

I'll never forget that wacky MTV contest where you could win Axl's condo since he had to get away from his neighbor from hell.

It got a lot of attention...and while it's not an album highlight, kinda surprising in hindsight that they didn't do some kind of MTV promotion with Right Next Door to Hell when it was finally released.

Im kinda surprised RNDTH (say in an edited version omitting the “fuck you”) was never considered for a single. I mean, they released Garden of Eden as a single. Would argue Next Door was more radio friendly than Garden of Eden.


The single selection 91-93 definitely left much to be desired.

A lot of things probably influenced the decisions....

Izzy leaving ruined any potential of Dust N Bones, 14 Years, or Double Talking Jive as singles/videos

I always had a feeling DNB would've been a single...sandwiched between Don't Cry and Live and Let Die.

The grunge explosion had to have influenced things on some level...even if just from a label standpoint.

That tour was never ending and this would impact when songs might get the video treatment and more importantly.... when... example...

The Garden deserved to be a single much earlier than it was. By the time it was, nobody cared.

Too much focus/attention on the epic bloated video trilogy (DC, NR, Estranged).

Those had massive budgets.

I'll say it til my dying day...

DTJ.shouldve been a single... even if they have to go in and record with Axl on lead and release it as a double A side with a UYI track. It was the only UYI deep cut treated like a hit on the three year tour.

There had to be plans for it at some point.

polluxlm
 Rep: 216 

Re: How big of a deal was Steven being fired when it happened?

polluxlm wrote:

I think Izzy's departure is overstated and Steven the opposite.

Izzy was incredibly important in the 80s. His writing is all over Appetite and Lies, including some of their biggest hits. The band isn't completely helpless without him though, composing Jungle, It's So Easy and Rocket Queen. Also Paradise City and SCOM are not mainly Izzy songs.

On UYI he is still very prominent but he's not so much writing the big guns anymore. Don't Cry and YCBM yes, but those were written in the 80s. Clean Izzy brings 14 Years, Dust N Bones, DTJ, Bad Obsession, You Ain't the First, Perfect Crime and Pretty Tied Up to the table. Good songs, a few of them great, but these are Axl and Slash's albums. Most of the big songs are written by them alone or mostly alone.

Adler's drumming was imo more important to the sound of the band than Izzy. His writing also appear to have been of a lesser quality once he got off the drugs.

I think the name was the cause of all the trouble. Axl should never have exercised his legal right to usurp the band. He was secure either way. All it did was leaving Slash resentful and going for a power play that ruined their relationship. Writing wise I think they would have been more than fine to create a kick ass album in the mid 90s. Axl, Slash and Duff have always been the real core of the band, by virtue of being the only ones willing to commit to it.

Neemo
 Rep: 484 

Re: How big of a deal was Steven being fired when it happened?

Neemo wrote:

I don't remember either departure being a big deal in the media...slash and duff basically fluffed them both off

From what i remember Gilby and Matt seemed to be immediate replacements

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