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Stepvhen
 Rep: 58 

Re: Wiki Leaks

Stepvhen wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

The fact that there is one person on one side of the issue and he brings nothing to the table other than insults takes a lot away from the vibe. It could be an interesting discussion if the guy starting the thread was interested in a discussion, but he's not.

WikiLeaks has revealed the National Socialist Movement's neo-nazi internal workings.

Source:
http://boingboing.net/2009/08/21/wikile … hes-1.html


WikiLeaks exposed Scientology, a religion that scams its followers into a delusional set of beliefs in exchange for their money.

Source:
http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/03/11/2348242


WikiLeaks showed how the U.S. tried to thwart Spanish probes into Gitmo torture and CIA 'extraordinary rendition' cases.

Source:
http://www.democracynow.org/2010/12/1/w … s_tried_to


WikiLeaks revealed how the CIA kidnapped an innocent German and tortured him for months, then attempting to stop Germany from arresting its operatives.

http://www.boingboing.net/2010/12/01/wi … he-el.html



WikiLeaks has revealed how U.S. soldiers used Iraqi civilians as human bomb detectors.

http://www.iraqwarlogs.com/2010/10/23/h … detectors/


WikiLeaks revealed the previously unreported deaths of four Canadian soldiers at the hands of U.S. friendly fire in Afghanistan.

Source:
http://www.cbc.ca/canada/story/2010/07/ … ation.html


WikiLeaks uncovered the truth behind Iceland's 2009 financial crisis, bringing many corrupt managers to justice.

Source:
http://icelandweatherreport.com/2009/08 … t-ruv.html

WikiLeaks exposed 217 cases of UN peace-keepers being accused of sexually abusing and impregnating girls in eastern Congo.

Source:http://mirror.wikileaks.info/wiki/UN_finds_217_sex_abuse_claims_against_blue_helmets/index.html

WikiLeaks revealed more than 15,000 civilian deaths in Iraq that had previously been concealed by the U.S. government.

Source:
http://www.iraqwarlogs.com/2010/10/23/iraqs-bloodbath/



WikiLeaks has revealed how scientists manipulated global warming research data in order to make it seem more consequential.

Source:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/enviro … -data.html



WikiLeaks revealed covert Australian Internet censorship

Source:
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/03/ … 61100.html

We can start with shutting down the Post and Times, cause nobody knew or gave a fuck about wikileaks until the biggest newspapers in the world started republishing them. Assange is a terrorist but Bill Keller is not?

Well I am just astounded pulloxulm. wow.

And in return Europe has to function as Americas backyard buffer to Russia, and having all kinds of unbenefitial demands shoved down their throats, like missile shields, unrestricted access to "terrorists" (citizens) and fighter duty in third world country bomb target of the week. You think Europeans leaders like having to always balance between their citizens demands and your government?

It's just politics. Britan and France are bitter because they're no longer top dog, Germany are angry and confrontational because they never were but thinks they should be, and the rest just tries to suck as much ass as they can without looking weak, cause they know that they are.

Wikileaks isn't about some petty US-EU dick measuring, it's about lighting up the increasingly dim government corridors and refresh peoples memory about what western civilization was built on. It isn't that long ago since Woodward and Bernstein were considered heroes. Memory is expedient I guess.

I'm regretting never having taken you seriously. You put that way better than me.

Stepvhen
 Rep: 58 

Re: Wiki Leaks

Stepvhen wrote:
James Lofton wrote:

BECAUSE your military cannot take down a single site.
This is where my participation in the debate stops as you clearly have zero knowledge on US cyber tactics and aren't even willing to read about it. For you to claim I have no idea what I'm talking about when you could have did a 2 second google search to lead you to some areas that would discuss these things showing I am right is laughable.

You're just one of those people aboard the wikileaks bandwagon since its a hot issue and are now an armchair expert even though you lack basic knowledge on issues you attempt to offer a rebuttal to. Its why you have to run to the insult well so often during the course of the debate.

I post quotes from Gates showing his position on Wikileaks, I'm labeled a coward.

I show you that the US has the capabilities to take wikileaks down if it decides to and even tell you where to look for such information, I'm told I don't know how the internet works.

This could have been an interesting debate but its simply not worth the effort of posting when me(or anyone) simply get insulted for posting facts that you don't agree with.

WikiLeaks nearly immune to takedown, says researcher
After DDOS attacks and the loss of its domain name, the WikiLeaks whistleblower site is as potent as ever

source:
http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/ … onomyId=17



Humble pie much?

No excuse to wriggle your way out now James, get back in here

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Wiki Leaks

Axlin16 wrote:

None of that above is jaw-dropping.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 426 

Re: Wiki Leaks

buzzsaw wrote:

wikileaks exposed scientology?  Really?  I stopped reading there considering anybody with a brain knew exactly what scientology was and why it targeted the people it did.  Even if the rest of what you said has any credibility, you probably lost most readers on your second point.

IRISH OS1R1S
 Rep: 45 

Re: Wiki Leaks

IRISH OS1R1S wrote:

The fact that none of this is jaw-dropping to alot of people is why the world is the way it is. People say, but its always been like this or well everyone knows this stuff happens, That does not make it acceptable.

If I smoke weed I may be fined or even jailed but if a government tortures, jails or even murders an innocent man its ok  18

I really do not understand some peoples logic.
I have had these debates with many people over the years and I always felt like I was banging my head against a wall. The fact is it will never change as long as the majority think its ok.

Anyway carry on people, these are just the opinions of mine and who am I eh?

buzzsaw
 Rep: 426 

Re: Wiki Leaks

buzzsaw wrote:

I don't have a problem with wikileaks to be honest. The information isn't earthshattering, but if the govt would put as much effort into protecting the real important stuff as they are into chasing their tail, something good can come from it.

We should see this as an opportunity to learn rather than an opportunity to get someone. This is the same crap tsa is doing. Quit being reactive and start being proactive.

Stepvhen
 Rep: 58 

Re: Wiki Leaks

Stepvhen wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

wikileaks exposed scientology?  Really?  I stopped reading there considering anybody with a brain knew exactly what scientology was and why it targeted the people it did.  Even if the rest of what you said has any credibility, you probably lost most readers on your second point.

They released the files on upper OT levels PROVING everything that had been held as speculation about Scientology beforehand.

Without wikileaks anything negative people said about Scientology was just speculation.

Wikileaks outed scientologists back in 2008 prior to that any hunch you may have had was unproved. So yeah... It's a big deal

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/03/12 … documents/


As Osiris says, that is precisely the problem with modern society

</p><div class="quotebox"><cite>Axlin08 … ></div><p>

As Osiris said, that is precisely the problem. The apathy of the worlds citizens, is it laziness, fear or both?


We should see this as an opportunity to learn rather than an opportunity to get someone. This is the same crap tsa is doing. Quit being reactive and start being proactive.

Of course. But what of justice?

buzzsaw
 Rep: 426 

Re: Wiki Leaks

buzzsaw wrote:

I don't need someone to call a spade a spade before I believe it.  If you've figured out anything about me, it should be that I call things as I see them. 

Justice is a relative term. What is just isn't the same to everybody. In utopia, you're right, but this isn't utopia.

IRISH OS1R1S
 Rep: 45 

Re: Wiki Leaks

IRISH OS1R1S wrote:

@buzz

I really agree with most of what you say, I like the way you say it as you see it, I respect that.

In saying that, the law is the law and should be upheld no matter who the perpetrators are. The law is not a relative term, the law is the rules set out that we all must abide by regardless of what the individual thinks is justice.

I also agree this isn't utopia but its not about utopia its about civilized people making sure we uphold and make sure the laws layed out for us are upheld at all times, otherwise we are no better than savages.

I am not really that educated on the whole wikileaks thing, Im just talking in general terms. I think the road we have been on the last few decades is disgusting and just wish more people could see it and be willing to say they've had enough.

Anywho like I said already "brick wall" 19

Communist China
 Rep: 130 

Re: Wiki Leaks

I just have a major problem with the implication that things today are somehow worse than they've been previously. At least for the US, while I do find the strength of the national government in relation to the states disturbing, I really think it's obvious that we're more free (and healthier and wealthier) today than we were 50 years ago, 100 years ago, etc. back to our founding.

I'm somewhat ignorant (well, more than somewhat) of how things are in the rest of the world but I'm tempted to assume most places have been better off since the Cold War ended.

Transparency is nice, when it's appropriate and oftentimes with what WikiLeaks does it's not, but it creates these feelings that our leaders are the epitome of evil. Just as I think it's harmful for the country to treat people of differing ideologies as enemies (be it Islam or the conservative/liberal culture war), I think it's dangerous to think that the whole system is coordinated to carry out atrocities for selfish gains. Yes, there are perverse institutional incentives for irresponsible governing, but I think the system is much more pluralistic and built on compromise.

WikiLeaks has it's moments as I've said from the start, but it'd be a mistake to make a villain out of an official or military serviceman because you caught them doing something that looks abhorrent. WikiLeaks lacks context and I think that makes its ultimate effect, however well-intentioned and built on small truths, to skew the real picture of how the world works. It's pieces to the puzzle, but without some very important ones you can't see what's going on, and in those cases it might be better to just look at the picture on the box.

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