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buzzsaw
 Rep: 426 

Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*

buzzsaw wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

Lol at the haters.  Saw it this morning, IT WAS AMAZING!!!

Seriously one of the best movies ive seen in my life.  I can agree with a few of ur alls points myb but i cant even get thru all the posts on the last couple pages. The movies tremendous, everyones a critic.


Agreed.  I don't let all the details ruin a movie for me; I just enjoy it for what it is.  Stars was EU got too big anyway with conflicting books/storylines.  This movie stands on it's own to me even if you didn't fully understand the previous movies.

Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*

AtariLegend wrote:

For the record I didn't say I hated it, I thought it was very good. Just didn't think it was a classic.

Communist China
 Rep: 130 

Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*

I saw it last night and really enjoyed it. I can see why some fans would be put off by it, it's definitely a by-the-numbers mix of Star Wars tropes we've seen before. I thought there were just enough new elements there -

Hidden Text:

Finn's arc as a reformed stormtrooper, Kylo Ren having not fully embraced the Dark Side

- to give you something to think about besides dwelling on the heavy similarities, but where they go from here will probably affect how much the familiarity of this one bothers me. Overall, it's a lot like Abrams' Star Trek movies and Marvel's movies - fast paced, lots of action, a dose of comedy, some fan service, and stakes so high they're inevitably kind of ridiculous. They can feel a little generic and produced but they hit the right beats. In other words, it's pop. If you have Radiohead expectations for a Taylor Swift production you're going to be disappointed but that doesn't make it a bad product.

Maybe I'll feel differently in the future - I liked Sith when I first saw it but became a critic over the years. But for now I was thoroughly entertained and I'm excited for the next one.

PaSnow
 Rep: 197 

Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*

PaSnow wrote:

I look at it like this, if jj abrams couldve he would make 250 million different movies to satisfy everyones tastes, ideas, and expectations.  And theyd all be satisfied. However theres not enough money or time in the universe, so he couldnt.  So of course he cannot meet every imdb nitwits ideas.  This thread itsellf has  become an example, some of us are saying it copied the original too much, then another post said kylo renn should have had a nasty scar or deformity when he took his helmet off, directly copying darth vader.


Lets look at some of the thinfs i felt jj abrams did great.  BB8, runaway stormtrooper was ballsy, female protagonist to carry the film,,  raz (?) The wise character at the cantina, making leia a general not just a silly, dated era princess, doing away with the cell phone technology liam neeson used (i thought that was a cheesy makeup call for not forseeing that in the originals....   theres more, so lets admit he did alot, alot great. I thought c3po having the red arm was a cool, unique idea. Just a small thing.

I do agree tho i want the storyline arc copying to stop in the next one. Obviously i dont want that to parallel empire so it needs to be completely original.

Also, can we stop doing the spoiler tags soon. Myb new years day or something.  If u havent seen the movie by then u could just not come into the thread.  Not sure why u would if u hadnt seen it anyway, unless its not open overseas yet or something?

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*

polluxlm wrote:
Communist China wrote:

If you have Radiohead expectations for a Taylor Swift production you're going to be disappointed but that doesn't make it a bad product.

And if Radiohead released a Taylor Swift album?

What I want to know is, if familiar characters, CGI and lightsabers are enough to make a great Star Wars movie, then why is the PT so disliked? Whatever it was it certainly had all of those elements.
Is it the few lines of cringe dialogue and acting tipping the scale?

Communist China
 Rep: 130 

Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*

polluxlm wrote:

What I want to know is, if familiar characters, CGI and lightsabers are enough to make a great Star Wars movie, then why is the PT so disliked? Whatever it was it certainly had all of those elements.
Is it the few lines of cringe dialogue and acting tipping the scale?

There's more to the formula than CGI and lightsabre battles and Han Solo, but yeah, dialogue and acting are big problems in the PT. It spoils the moments that could be great. When the Vader mask is put on and we hear that classic breathing sound for the first time, it's awesome. But then a minute later he's yelling "NOOOOOOOO!" and I'm laughing. There's tension when Anakin and Obi-Wan confront each other, then Anakin says "Either you're with me, or you're my enemy" and I'm laughing because it sounds so awkward. Same when Anakin confesses his love to Padme on Naboo or when he tells her about killing the sand people. These should be big moments and none of them land for me. In particular, those two are so not in love it's jarring. I could've gotten into their non-chemistry if they led us to think that Padme was only with him to keep an eye on him, but they didn't really go that direction, at least not clearly enough for me to pick up on.

So yeah, the dialogue in the PT is cringe-worthy in key moments and the acting is often bad. I'd say the acting in Force Awakens is strong throughout.

But also I just didn't find the characters of the PT very likable or their motivations easy to understand. Like I said, Padme's love for Anakin never makes sense. And what was the point of Darth Maul or Qui-Gon Jinn? And am I supposed to hate Anakin or sympathize with him? (At times it seems he's pulled to the Dark Side because he's impatient with his place with the Jedi, other times he really seems to think it's the only way to save the woman he loves). Maybe the acting was bad because the characters were confusing.

Force Awakens very quickly shows you who these people are and why you should care about them. Even with Ren, they introduce the nuances of his character by first giving us clear signals about what he is, then violating our expectations about him. I thought it was well done.

But that's just my opinion. I forgive a cheesy plot easier than I forgive bad characters or dialogue, so VII was more my cup of tea than I-II-III.

EDIT: Sorry this turned out so long.

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*

polluxlm wrote:
Communist China wrote:
polluxlm wrote:

What I want to know is, if familiar characters, CGI and lightsabers are enough to make a great Star Wars movie, then why is the PT so disliked? Whatever it was it certainly had all of those elements.
Is it the few lines of cringe dialogue and acting tipping the scale?

There's more to the formula than CGI and lightsabre battles and Han Solo, but yeah, dialogue and acting are big problems in the PT. It spoils the moments that could be great. When the Vader mask is put on and we hear that classic breathing sound for the first time, it's awesome. But then a minute later he's yelling "NOOOOOOOO!" and I'm laughing. There's tension when Anakin and Obi-Wan confront each other, then Anakin says "Either you're with me, or you're my enemy" and I'm laughing because it sounds so awkward. Same when Anakin confesses his love to Padme on Naboo or when he tells her about killing the sand people. These should be big moments and none of them land for me. In particular, those two are so not in love it's jarring. I could've gotten into their non-chemistry if they led us to think that Padme was only with him to keep an eye on him, but they didn't really go that direction, at least not clearly enough for me to pick up on.

So yeah, the dialogue in the PT is cringe-worthy in key moments and the acting is often bad. I'd say the acting in Force Awakens is strong throughout.

But also I just didn't find the characters of the PT very likable or their motivations easy to understand. Like I said, Padme's love for Anakin never makes sense. And what was the point of Darth Maul or Qui-Gon Jinn? And am I supposed to hate Anakin or sympathize with him? (At times it seems he's pulled to the Dark Side because he's impatient with his place with the Jedi, other times he really seems to think it's the only way to save the woman he loves). Maybe the acting was bad because the characters were confusing.

Force Awakens very quickly shows you who these people are and why you should care about them. Even with Ren, they introduce the nuances of his character by first giving us clear signals about what he is, then violating our expectations about him. I thought it was well done.

But that's just my opinion. I forgive a cheesy plot easier than I forgive bad characters or dialogue, so VII was more my cup of tea than I-II-III.

EDIT: Sorry this turned out so long.

Well I thought some of those worked while others didn't. But I suppose acting was not too high on my list in a series where a guy in a mask gave the best performance. It was always more about characters, environments, the Force and action.

But it's a fair argument. If those didn't work for you this will feel better. I am however puzzled how the lack in so many other areas are given a pass. Action is imo nothing special in this, nor are the effects. The acting is decent, but the characters are nothing special. Rey is the Mary Sue, Finn is the black comic relief (pretty surprised they went so stereotype there) and Poe is just a poor man's Han Solo. The plot is entirely ripped off, don't know why that's suddenly acceptable.

For the main "strength" of this movie appear to be no "bad moments" and Han Solo. Well they have Han Solo, but imo there's not many great memorable moments either. Dialogue, performances, action set pieces? There's nothing really standing out. It's all just "good". And that to me is missing the essential in Star Wars. The big highs amongst some cheesy lows. This is just even keel, been there before. Probably fine enough for entertainment, but I thought Star Wars was supposed to be held to a higher standard.

PaSnow
 Rep: 197 

Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*

PaSnow wrote:

I view it more like Rae is the new skywalker, Finn is the new Hans.  Not sure what Poe is, I didn't like his  character much to begin with (thought it was a bad actor choice, one of the few in the cast). I think he's more an ancillary character although maybe he'll factor in more in following films. I think the next film will be more about Rae discovering who she is & the force, and Finn looking for his homeland.

I agree a few points with Finn bordered a bit on stereotypes, walked a very close line there lol.

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*

polluxlm wrote:

The only positive about JJ doing the shrouded veil on all the characters is that the next director has a lot of wiggle room when he takes over. Rian Johnson did a fine job on breaking bad, question is will he be allowed to? If this remake of ANH can be so successful, why change a winning team?

It will also be interesting to see how they are going to nerf our main character when she has already beaten the villain. Him coming back from his training uber powerful would reek of plot device. Hopefully they go the most obvious and interesting route, turn Rey to the dark side and make Darth Emo our hero.

PaSnow
 Rep: 197 

Re: The Star Wars Thread *NO SPOILERS ALLOWED!*

PaSnow wrote:

"Darth Emo" lol

Rey going to the Dark Side would just ruin the legacy. Although, I guess Anakin went bad, so yeah maybe she could go bad.  TBH I think she is just too likeable and people are rooting for her too much. It could be interesting, but I think ultimately the backlash of such a risk would be far to great (we're talking Disney & Billions, they're not into "Bad Guys" making them money). If this was Miramax & tarantino lol then yeah maybe.

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