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Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
buzzsaw wrote:RaZor wrote:I know how insurance companies work buzz, I used to work for one. I also know how economics work, I have a degree in economics.
The market system works to drive down prices because consumers act in their own best interest, when they have the information they need to make informed decisions. Insurance separates the payer from the consumer, and reduces transparency. It actually works against the market.
The article I posted explains it pretty well, have you read it?
Update: Buzz, you're wrong when you say that insurance companies don't contribute to the increasing cost; but they are not the only force contributing to the increasing costs, and you make a lot of good points otherwise. Even without the insurance companies, prices would still be going up for a lot of the reasons you've been pointing out, that's why I said that healthcare is a failed market. It's a case in which market forces actually increase the price of a good instead of driving it down. Generally, the only way to correct a failed market is through government intervention.
I guess the insurance world is different than when you used to work in it. I make good points because I know what I'm talking about.
Gov't intervention and running things are 2 different things. You can't just decide one day to run insurance. It doesn't work that way. Look at Obama care. People are paying out the ass for insurance. Yet insurance companies claim to be losing money on the exchanges. How is that possible? Because the only people signing up are people using a lot of benefits. The only way it works is if everyone signs up, but I'm not giving up my once good and now decent coverage for crap coverage. Neither is anyone else. If they push single payer, they will not win any elections. People will stand up when pushed to the brink regardless of political affiliations.
Once good now decent, that's the thing, the market is trending toward shittier plans, I think that's going to continue to happen until enough people get fed up, and then single payer will be inevitable. We'll see, time will tell.
Single payer is going to get even shittier plans. No competition. I've seen the government'sidea of good plans on the exchanges and they are awful. Basically catastrophic coverage and nothing else.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
Smoking Guns wrote:there is a solution, but it involves removing insurance companies and allowing the provider and customer negotiate. Patient would pay less and provider of care would make more.
For the poor that is where it gets more complex. Well my post just derailed.
Good luck with that. No provider is going to negotiate with a consumer.
And even if they did, there's an information/education gap... so a provider can easily swindle a consumer into procedures they don't really need. The opposite is true as well, a consumer wary of being swindled may refuse services that could save their life.
It's a failed market. It's was a failed market before the HMO was created, it's a failed market still.
Like other failed markets, such as public goods and utilities, government intervention is needed.
RaZor wrote:buzzsaw wrote:I guess the insurance world is different than when you used to work in it. I make good points because I know what I'm talking about.
Gov't intervention and running things are 2 different things. You can't just decide one day to run insurance. It doesn't work that way. Look at Obama care. People are paying out the ass for insurance. Yet insurance companies claim to be losing money on the exchanges. How is that possible? Because the only people signing up are people using a lot of benefits. The only way it works is if everyone signs up, but I'm not giving up my once good and now decent coverage for crap coverage. Neither is anyone else. If they push single payer, they will not win any elections. People will stand up when pushed to the brink regardless of political affiliations.
Once good now decent, that's the thing, the market is trending toward shittier plans, I think that's going to continue to happen until enough people get fed up, and then single payer will be inevitable. We'll see, time will tell.
Single payer is going to get even shittier plans. No competition. I've seen the government'sidea of good plans on the exchanges and they are awful. Basically catastrophic coverage and nothing else.
I have no doubt quality of service will go down because of the lack of competition. That's the ultimate trade off we're faced with, cost vs quality.
I still think single payer is inevitable as costs continue to rise. The decision between good service at an ever increasing price, or adequate service at a reasonable price. As cost rise, fewer and fewer are able to affords good service, the low cost and adequate service becomes more attractive.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
I think you need a tax break if you are healthy, take care of yourself, and low risk. The smoker or the guy that is morbidly obese should pay more than someone that takes care of themselves. One reason why Europe works better is THEY ARE OVERALL MUCH HEALTHIER. They don't eat all this shit we do. So our European buddies don't drain the system nearly as bad as we do.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
What sux with insurance is the provider has to over charge to settle at something that may work. If their true good number is $100, Ins will beat them down to $50. So they make the number $250 and end up with $75. In a private deal you could pay them $125, get rid of the monthly ins premium and both sides win. Single payer is better than the current model.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
I think you need a tax break if you are healthy, take care of yourself, and low risk. The smoker or the guy that is morbidly obese should pay more than someone that takes care of themselves. One reason why Europe works better is THEY ARE OVERALL MUCH HEALTHIER. They don't eat all this shit we do. So our European buddies don't drain the system nearly as bad as we do.
They might eat a bit healthier, but there are more smokers. Tobacco products are indeed heavily taxed to cover the additional cost. Some countries are mulling a 'sugar tax' on non-diet soda's as well, but proposals like that are usually quite contentious.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
It's all fucked. The healthy. Subsidize the weak. It has always been this way.
Re: 2016 Presidential Election Thread
http://www.funnyordie.com/videos/ad3808 … deal-movie
For those who haven't seen it a 50 minutes movie has been made with Johnny Depp playing Donal Trump. It's pretty funny 
Also could this thread be renamed 2016 Presidential Race or something?
