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Wagszilla
 Rep: 67 

Re: Happy 10th anniversary, Chinese Democracy!

Wagszilla wrote:

I’m mostly curious about what Chinese Democracy was in embryo.

Sound, track list, players.

It’s probably just an amalgamation of grunge, synth pop, and numetal navel-gazing but getting back to the (New) Five Guys in a room likely yields the superior iteration.

I’m not opposed to a re-recording and re-release in theory but I think less of established corporate juggernauts than I do enthusiastic and vibrant upstarts.

It’s not like we’ve ever had or will have a say in the matter.

zombux
 Rep: 33 

Re: Happy 10th anniversary, Chinese Democracy!

zombux wrote:

@Wags: I think there's nothing like "embryonic phase of Chinese Democracy". my perception based on known facts and educated guess is, that there were none "songs" back then, just a huge mess of riffs, ideas, samples... and only later around 2000 (but maybe already in 1999, definitely the "Beavan album" at latest), they started to put them together, but that still doesn't mean those were ready and done.
yeah, they had OMG released, and later in 2001 they put together some other songs and played them live for two years, without changing them in any way.
all that was just a mess and I strongly doubt we will ever hear anything from that era.

Wagszilla
 Rep: 67 

Re: Happy 10th anniversary, Chinese Democracy!

Wagszilla wrote:

Gotcha.

I guess I’d have to take earliest completed versions then.

And the tracklist was half solid, half fluid according to Canter, so it’d be interesting to know that. It seems it was something different in Axl’s mind in 2001 for example. And of course him regaling the trilogy structure to Baz in 2006/7.

dalethirsty
 Rep: 16 

Re: Happy 10th anniversary, Chinese Democracy!

dalethirsty wrote:

finck talked about how frustrated he was working on instrumental songs with no titles.

personally, i'd LOVE to hear those. those guys killed hundreds of hours in the studio waiting for axl to show up. i can only imagine they put together some monster instrumentals.

i want to hear what they jammed on after taking this photo:

8ZhpLkj.jpg

it really is crazy... the amount of material recorded by guns n roses compared to the amount of material the band released is absolutely disproportionate.

is there any other band like that?

zombux is right though... we're never gonna hear shit. it's just really unfortunate because axl assembled a mutant team of the world's most talented freaks and we only heard a fucking fraction of what they put together.

zombux
 Rep: 33 

Re: Happy 10th anniversary, Chinese Democracy!

zombux wrote:

yep, totally agree. what a waste of... pretty much everything involved - people, talents, time, money, everything.

apex-twin
 Rep: 198 

Re: Happy 10th anniversary, Chinese Democracy!

apex-twin wrote:

What if he ain't that crazy?

"With our team we were able to negotiate through a mountain of issues to be able to release the album. Within those negotiations, I believed I had secured agreements, commitments and assurances that would have allowed a promotional strategy to be implemented that obviously I've had a fair amount of time to consider." (Axl, MyGNR, 12/12/08)

A promotional strategy which he had been thinking about, for a long while. He was offering it out, he said. 


"We never intended a huge public rollout, especially without resolving certain issues, and no one ever suggested us doing so, though Interscope's communications with Best Buy in these areas may not have been as clear as anyone would have preferred.

Our approach, for better or worse, has always been to work the record over the course of the following tour cycles, with attempts to forge new or better and hopefully redefined relationships with the different forms of media that may be interested along the way." - Billboard, 2009

Axl tours, makes friends with the media, and over time finds a more receptive audience - and only then releases the album?


"Best Buy has been great... Zach [Horowitz, Universal Music Group president/COO], or whoever's behind the international efforts, is doing great. It's more than appreciated and a welcome relief.

Unfortunately [going with Best Buy] didn't change us having to rely on Interscope as much as we'd hoped. The opinions expressed or "jumped" on publicly regarding promotion seem to be [about] my or our involvement with mainstream media -- talk shows, rock magazines and dot-coms -- which have generally held negative public stances toward myself or the band for years, [and they] unfortunately have not been resolved. Efforts are being made to understand the relationships and evaluate how best to proceed."

Now, the media is mean on Axl again and he stays home thinking why?


"In regard to our promotion, it was based around certain agreements with Universal, Interscope, our management and legal [teams] that unfortunately never happened. I won't get into specifics but am beginning to address some of those issues in my own way as opposed to "working together," and we'll see how that plays out."

It comes out a few paragraphs later.

Without [Interscope Geffen A&M chairman] Jimmy Iovine's involvement, it doesn't matter who anyone talks to or what they say -- virtually nothing will happen from their end... And, unfortunately, for all their nice words and assurances, nothing that's happened since the week or so before the release has shown us much of anything to the contrary.

So at least in regard to the U.S., for the most part I don't look at it like we have a record company -- I look at it for the most part like we have friendly but otherwise cutthroat loan sharks.

Geffen didn't promote things his way, to curb that negative public image.

Did Axl refuse taking PR duties into his own hands because he was afraid of a negative portrayal?

Wagszilla
 Rep: 67 

Re: Happy 10th anniversary, Chinese Democracy!

Wagszilla wrote:

It’s like anything else Guns and Chinese related. Riddles, mysteries, and enigmas.

I can see Axl’s point. Slash was running his mouth ‘95 onwards. In the words of the great Jules, “Well, allow me to retort”. But such a precisely felt emotion would be saved for the critical moment, when it could be maximally useful and also clearly expressed.

This is our new band. Beat. These are our new songs. Beat. The record is coming out on X. Beat. The past is the past. Beat. X and Y happened. Beat.

It’s a turn of the century marketing mix. Slow fade-up. Solid enough ideas. But we interpret it through Axl’s now past actions which color the kool-aid.

And I can totally see no one caring, no one wanting to resolve the red tape with the GNR logo, etc. An easy sell for me there.

The counter argument is Axl being one for ideas but not for execution. And him being quite sensitive and his handlers exacerbating problems of many a stripe and color.

But his head was in the game in a lot of this stuff. Just lacked the time, discipline, resources to pull it off. It was decadence on the front half and pinching pennies on the back nine.

And depression seems to loom large over a lot of this, too.

Re: Happy 10th anniversary, Chinese Democracy!

Sky Dog wrote:
apex-twin wrote:

What if he ain't that crazy?

"With our team we were able to negotiate through a mountain of issues to be able to release the album. Within those negotiations, I believed I had secured agreements, commitments and assurances that would have allowed a promotional strategy to be implemented that obviously I've had a fair amount of time to consider." (Axl, MyGNR, 12/12/08)

A promotional strategy which he had been thinking about, for a long while. He was offering it out, he said. 


"We never intended a huge public rollout, especially without resolving certain issues, and no one ever suggested us doing so, though Interscope's communications with Best Buy in these areas may not have been as clear as anyone would have preferred.

Our approach, for better or worse, has always been to work the record over the course of the following tour cycles, with attempts to forge new or better and hopefully redefined relationships with the different forms of media that may be interested along the way." - Billboard, 2009

Axl tours, makes friends with the media, and over time finds a more receptive audience - and only then releases the album?


"Best Buy has been great... Zach [Horowitz, Universal Music Group president/COO], or whoever's behind the international efforts, is doing great. It's more than appreciated and a welcome relief.

Unfortunately [going with Best Buy] didn't change us having to rely on Interscope as much as we'd hoped. The opinions expressed or "jumped" on publicly regarding promotion seem to be [about] my or our involvement with mainstream media -- talk shows, rock magazines and dot-coms -- which have generally held negative public stances toward myself or the band for years, [and they] unfortunately have not been resolved. Efforts are being made to understand the relationships and evaluate how best to proceed."

Now, the media is mean on Axl again and he stays home thinking why?


"In regard to our promotion, it was based around certain agreements with Universal, Interscope, our management and legal [teams] that unfortunately never happened. I won't get into specifics but am beginning to address some of those issues in my own way as opposed to "working together," and we'll see how that plays out."

It comes out a few paragraphs later.

Without [Interscope Geffen A&M chairman] Jimmy Iovine's involvement, it doesn't matter who anyone talks to or what they say -- virtually nothing will happen from their end... And, unfortunately, for all their nice words and assurances, nothing that's happened since the week or so before the release has shown us much of anything to the contrary.

So at least in regard to the U.S., for the most part I don't look at it like we have a record company -- I look at it for the most part like we have friendly but otherwise cutthroat loan sharks.

Geffen didn't promote things his way, to curb that negative public image.

Did Axl refuse taking PR duties into his own hands because he was afraid of a negative portrayal?

Good stuff...side note....the album and songs released were what got through the “red tape” as he said. The album has a compilation feel to me. In other words, his true vision for the second half of Chinese or even a “trilogy” thing were scrapped by the record company (and Azoff for that matter) once the Best Buy bailout deal became reality. Just speculating there obviously.

Re: Happy 10th anniversary, Chinese Democracy!

Sky Dog wrote:

Wags, the mental health issues CANNOT be overlooked. Knowing what I know now about mental health difficulties, it is amazing that he has become as functional as he currently is. Slash and Duff overcame some tough stuff too with their substance abuse issues. Minor miracle that they have found each other again.

metallex78
 Rep: 187 

Re: Happy 10th anniversary, Chinese Democracy!

metallex78 wrote:

Slash running his mouth from 1995 onwards? He was frustrated that he couldn’t get anything done with Axl or GN’R. But having read dozens and dozens of interviews with Slash from 1995 onwards, he never outright slagged off Axl, and if he did say some negative stuff, he’d always back it up with how talented Axl was.

As for Izzy publicly talking shit about Axl, that’s another story altogether...

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