Tracks missing from the leaked CD's

polluxlm

Yes, but then where are all these superior songs. You would think they would be a priority for the stuff Slash and Duff worked on. The only songs I would call A-list from those are Hard School and the General. Stuff like Perhaps and Atlas feel more like b or c material. Scraping the bottom of the barrel type stuff.

The only outlier is Monsters.

AgesOfTheIce

polluxlm wrote:

Yes, but then where are all these superior songs. You would think they would be a priority for the stuff Slash and Duff worked on. The only songs I would call A-list from those are Hard School and the General. Stuff like Perhaps and Atlas feel more like b or c material. Scraping the bottom of the barrel type stuff.
The only outlier is Monsters.

I'd switch out The General for Nothin, but other than that I agree. It's been clear for a while that the dream of dozens of amazing unreleased songs just isn't reality.

slashsfro

polluxlm wrote:

Yes, but then where are all these superior songs. You would think they would be a priority for the stuff Slash and Duff worked on. The only songs I would call A-list from those are Hard School and the General. Stuff like Perhaps and Atlas feel more like b or c material. Scraping the bottom of the barrel type stuff.
The only outlier is Monsters.

If time has taught us anything with that saga, it’s that they were blowing smoke with all that stuff about 2 albums worth of stuff , unreleased big guns etc

The best songs made the album . The rest are b sides at best .

I barely listen to the reheated leftovers anymore . Once you get past the novelty of Slash and Duff being on them , they just aren’t very good or catchy .

metallex78

slashsfro wrote:

I barely listen to the reheated leftovers anymore . Once you get past the novelty of Slash and Duff being on them , they just aren’t very good or catchy .

Pretty much this, in a nutshell. The reheated CD leftovers are pretty fucken uninspired at best.

Even Hardschool, which I thought was the one where Slash n Duff injected themselves into it most, is an average b-side rocker.

Quite a few diehards were blowing their load over Nothing, when that first came out, but outside the Slash solo, that's pretty forgettable as well.

Bill Brasky

The document image i posted which is titled Subject B Masters, I believe indicates shows the intentions for the songs to considered B sides.
Axl Rose made a statement i posted in a later post in this thread stating the songs nugnr has played live up into that point weren't considered singles ( so they were B sides) the songs played by then 2002 were Madagascar, The Blues, Riad, Silkworms, Chinese Democracy (Funny enough was the single for Chinese Democracy upon it's release)

Oh My God beings the lone exception not on the subject B master list.
Which was released as a released as a promotional single on November 2, 1999, but not as a direct single so maybe some semantics on my part but still a valid point.

None the less the subject masters B list means there is a subject masters A list
with songs such as This I Love, Hardschool, Perhaps, The General, Soul Monster, Oklahoma, Nothin, Curly Shuffle, Shacklers( if it's not Dragon) and Irs are probably on it amongst other songs ?

That's a fair statement right ?

I do not know what Axl Rose thought process is regarding picking B sides and singles. I'm going off tangible factual information from a legal fax document to form my opinion and present it here.

Obviously if Robert Bird, Levisnuts or Tom Zutaut or even Fernando wish to provide us with the Subject Master's A list this could all be cleared up quickly.
That however is rather doubtful.

I also want to add the Village version of Hardschool was superior to reunion era version. I believe most of us prefer the Andy Wallace mix and The Village Sessions versions to 2008 released version of Chinese Democracy or Reunion era releases.

The 1999 versions of the songs have always been my preference.

So remember the legal fax document titled Subject B Masters is from before Zutaut was fired December 2001 most likely November or December 2001 due to The Rebel disc being the latest dated of the Village Sessions discs leaks dated 11/15/2001 and The Rebel appears on the Subject B Masters list.

So what the songs sounded like or Axl's opinion most likely changed.

We're looking at list with 25 years of hindsight but still with limited information compared to the individuals who made that list.

So what do you think ?

AgesOfTheIce

There is no way in hell Axl intended TWAT, The Blues, Madagascar, Prostitute & Catcher to be b sides. That's absolutely ludicrous. He mentioned TWAT & The Blues as two of his favorites in January 2006 (along with Better), he also had a video filmed for Catcher in late 2002 and was showing the song off to people in 2006. It was originally intended to be saved for another album.

There is no logic in thinking him saying the songs they debuted in 2001 weren't being considered as singles means he intended them to be b sides. Ever heard of a deep cut? Why would he use a b side throwaway to show off the band at the MTV awards in 2002?

And perhaps the most insane implication: he intended the title track to be a b side!?!

Bill Brasky

AgesOfTheIce wrote:

There is no way in hell Axl intended TWAT, The Blues, Madagascar, Prostitute & Catcher to be b sides. That's absolutely ludicrous. He mentioned TWAT & The Blues as two of his favorites in January 2006 (along with Better), he also had a video filmed for Catcher in late 2002 and was showing the song off to people in 2006. It was originally intended to be saved for another album.
There is no logic in thinking him saying the songs they debuted in 2001 weren't being considered as singles means he intended them to be b sides. Ever heard of a deep cut? Why would he use a b side throwaway to show off the band at the MTV awards in 2002?
And perhaps the most insane implication: he intended the title track to be a b side!?!

The General was the B side to Perhaps

Hardschool aka Jackie Chan a song that was started before nugnr with Slash,Duff,Matt,Tobias,Axl was the B side to Absurd aka Sillworms

Atlas a song orginally with Brian May guesting on guitar ended up as the B side to Nothin'.

I can't explain why he chose Madagascar to be played live at the vma's maybe messaging due to the song's meaning but hearing it live on tv that night and from bootlegs back in the day it's the definition of a deep cut song in my opinion

I think most of us agree Better or Prostitute were the best candidates for singles off the Chinese Democracy album. However the singles ended up being Chinese Democracy and Shacklers Revenge. Not Twat or The Blues which name was changed and butchered in production to become Street Of Dreams. Catcher In The Rye was also not a single.

So where's the logic in that ?

BrokenGlassNCigs

lol that Subject B fax or whatever you wanna call it is either a) fake or b) completely irrelevant. "Dragon" isn't even a real thing and wasn't on any Village disk that Bird or Rick had.

Trying to defend anything on there makes no sense. As many have stated, a majority of the material recorded and released on CD are on that list. Also, the Axl quote from 2002 doesn't add legitimacy to that "document" either since Chinese was the lead single after all. I think that quote was referring to saving songs like Better, TWAT, Prostitute, etc and not playing them in 2002 and showing off the entire record then.

Bill Brasky

BrokenGlassNCigs wrote:

lol that Subject B fax or whatever you wanna call it is either a) fake or b) completely irrelevant. "Dragon" isn't even a real thing and wasn't on any Village disk that Bird or Rick had.
Trying to defend anything on there makes no sense. As many have stated, a majority of the material recorded and released on CD are on that list. Also, the Axl quote from 2002 doesn't add legitimacy to that "document" either since Chinese was the lead single after all. I think that quote was referring to saving songs like Better, TWAT, Prostitute, etc and not playing them in 2002 and showing off the entire record then.

The document isn't from Rick first of all. Secondly it's a engel & engel (entertainment law firm) legal fax document.
You may know what Rick had because it leaked but you clearly don't know what Bird had or sold.

Your statement that many of the songs are on the subject B master list were on Chinese Democracy, Well yeah Skwerl leaked 9 of 14 songs on Chinese Democracy and the years prior other states of those songs and others leaked. Any song that was widely leaked made Chinese Democracy.

Onto the qoute it is in plain english with little left for interpretation made by Axl Rose. You wish to interpret any way you want to, I'll take it on face value.

AgesOfTheIce

You're not taking it on face value, you're warping it to fit your narrative.

As for the "document", it purports to be from Engel & Engel, that doesn't make it so. Could very easily be another fake, though I don't have a strong opinion one way or the other.

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