GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread

RussTCB

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Sky Dog

russtcb wrote:

DoubleTalkingJive wrote:
All I have to say is this album is great!
This I Love is a [and I am going to use the word most people hate..LOL] Masterpiece!!!
I love it.
I don't really like what they did in the middle part of Better with the guitar slide.
Other then that, I love pretty much every song. Shacklers Revenge still needs to grow on me.
I have no complaints.
Good to hear. I'm pretty much the same way. I don't see SR growing on me though. It's not bad enough that I wanna turn it off but I'd still never put it on intentionally. If I'm playing the album all the way through then fine, but otherwise I could do without it.

Shackler got worse for me....I just skip it everytime...I tried twice but couldn't make it after the second verse finishes.:headbang: CD to Better would have been a perfect beginning to the record. But, there is no Gnr album that I can get through without skipping a song.

DoubleTalkingJive

madagas wrote:

russtcb wrote:
DoubleTalkingJive wrote:
All I have to say is this album is great!
This I Love is a [and I am going to use the word most people hate..LOL] Masterpiece!!!
I love it.
I don't really like what they did in the middle part of Better with the guitar slide.
Other then that, I love pretty much every song. Shacklers Revenge still needs to grow on me.
I have no complaints.
Good to hear. I'm pretty much the same way. I don't see SR growing on me though. It's not bad enough that I wanna turn it off but I'd still never put it on intentionally. If I'm playing the album all the way through then fine, but otherwise I could do without it.
Shackler got worse for me....I just skip it everytime...I tried twice but couldn't make it after the second verse finishes.:headbang: CD to Better would have been a perfect beginning to the record. But, there is no Gnr album that I can get through without skipping a song.

Same here, I'd have to say AFD come the closest for me to listening from beginning to end with only skipping one song. I always skip Anything Goes.

tejastech08

DoubleTalkingJive wrote:

madagas wrote:
russtcb wrote:
Good to hear. I'm pretty much the same way. I don't see SR growing on me though. It's not bad enough that I wanna turn it off but I'd still never put it on intentionally. If I'm playing the album all the way through then fine, but otherwise I could do without it.
Shackler got worse for me....I just skip it everytime...I tried twice but couldn't make it after the second verse finishes.:headbang: CD to Better would have been a perfect beginning to the record. But, there is no Gnr album that I can get through without skipping a song.
Same here, I'd have to say AFD come the closest for me to listening from beginning to end with only skipping one song. I always skip Anything Goes.

Hmmm...wonder why that immature song wouldn't appeal to a woman?

A Private Eye

Well my copies finally arrived through the post today so I can finally crank it through some speakers and listen to it properly.

1) Chinese Democracy - Better than I could have ever imagined from the boots a few years ago. Ron's rhythm adds punch and the drums in the intro add to the epic opening to the song. Depending what Axl truly means in the lyrics it could be one of his finest hours lyrically. A strong opener.

2) Shacklers Revenge - I like this track a lot more than most others seem to on here. Short, sharp, abrasive but also very catchy. Not a classic but it works for me, zany solo and demonic vocals puts in the category of fun rocker and in an album that suffers from self indulgence that's no bad thing.

3) Better - This song really delivers, it's the track it promised to be back in 06. The synths turned down, the guitars are cranked up, this is how the song is meant to sound imo. I like the guitar slide from Ron and I think this also song showcases the best of Finck. Probably the best rocker on the album.

4) Street of Dreams - I'd grown bored of this song a long time ago. Another lyrical high point for Axl sadly its mixed up with a lot of cheese. The outro vocals are hard to grow used to and sound awkward and squeezed in after years of listening to the boots and leaks. Might feel different if I was listening to it fresh but this one doesn't hit the mark anymore.

5) If The World - A nice surprise, I hated the leak but without me really knowing why the album version is really growing on me. Nice BH solo and Axls vocals sound nice and crisp especially on the chorus. Good effect on the La Da Da's as if your listening to it through a radio or something. A far cry from traditional GNR but it's really working for me right now.

6) There Was A Time - My favourite new GNR track in 06 now suffers from the aforementioned self indulgence. The first half needn't be so cluttered, the choir and squirrel noises are unnecessary and the new demon voice in the chorus doesn't fit the song at all. I still love that outro though.

7) Catcher in the Rye - Hard to get used to after the very basic 99 leak and again the intro's too busy, instead of the opening piano melody all that comes through is needless guitar noodling. The new solo works imo, May's solo didn't fit the song now it's been cranked up it was too soft, although it's a shame they couldn't find space for it somewhere. I absolutely love the outro guitar behind Axls vocals though I'm surprised more haven't mentioned it, it could well be Rons finest hour. Overall a highlight of the album.

8) Scraped - Nothing too clever here, basic chorus and a nice solo with a wall of rhythm behind the verses. Another catchy rocker, simple lyrics but I love the 'fuck you' tone to them 'Nothing's impossible, I am inconquerable' damn right!

9) Riad N' the Bedouins - Musically excellent but the lyrics really bring this track down for me, it's like Axl ran out of ideas. Or the whole things gone completely over my head I'm not sure which. Either way too many aaah aaahs and salvations/frustrations suggest to me he drew a blank on this one. Rons solo is no worse or better than BH's imo. Turn this one up and it still rocks however

10) Sorry - A truly awesome song, a 'big gun' if ever there was one. I'll refrain from calling it a classic so soon, but if it adopts that term in years to come I won't be surprised. The most interesting lyrics on the album, I don't care what people say Slash (and maybe Duff, Matt, Adler) take a whack on this song. Great solo from BH, reminds me of a classic Gilmour or Knopfler solo. Amazing vocals from Axl as well and the chorus just fixes itself in your head. I can't fault this track right now.

11) IRS- Meh, bland middle of the road rocker. I don't hate it but it's far from great. I've never understood the medias love for this song every review of leaks always called this a track to look out for. Beats me as to why. Highlights are the obvious scream/solo combo at the end of the track. The rest is just power chord mediocrity. The last real rocker on the album is probably the worst.

12) Madagascar - Another one I've gotten tired of. I love the concept and the structure and it has that epic sound I think it was looking for. Unfortunately though it just doesn't quite deliver. Axls vocals sound I'm sure deliberately tired and old but there's a fine line because he nearly sounds like he just can't sing, again perhaps deliberate, but it's a big risk to take, and I don't think it comes off.

13) This I Love - Growing on me, slowly. I wasn't struck on first listen and I'm still not feeling it like some seem to. Uncharacteristically very basic in structure and production for one of Axl's babies. I do quite like the solo though, admittedly it's just begging for 'you know who' but I don't think it's a bad solo by any means. Borders on the sappy but I love the rawness to it, there's pure pain dripping through the song. (Which whilst I'm thinking of it, really saddens me, Axls been in a bad place for a long time judging by these songs or at least he was in the 90's hopefully he's a somewhat happier person now.)

14) Prostitute - Sounds like something by Evanescance mixed with Linkin Park (ironically it was probably written before either of these bands existed). I like it though, fire and ice was a perfect description, crank this one up and wait for it to kick in. The orchestration is a nice way to close the album, even though I think it was the perfect opportunity for BH to really go to town.

If I had to put a score on this album I think it sits somewhere around the 7.5/10 or 8/10 mark.

I haven't found the so called production issues to have affected my listening experience yet, which I'm relieved about. The new tracks are welcome additions and If The World was a nice surprise. Ironically and sadly two of the tracks I'm least impressed with are the two songs that got me into new GNR in the first place, Madagascar and The Blues. Maybe they're victims of too much listening over the years. However on the whole I genuinely love this album, it suffers from bloated self indulgence at times, but then again so did UYI. As others have said it also flirts with greatness. All I wanted after following this saga for what feels like a lifetime (yet is a decade less than some of you) was for CD to do justice to the GNR name. The name of my favourite band had been dragged through the mud by the man who loved it the most, if after everything the album was not half bad it might have been just enough to restore some pride back in the step of GNR fans. I'm pleased to say for me at least, he did it. Was this album worth the wait and the heartache, no, but it is damn good.

DoubleTalkingJive

tejastech08 wrote:

DoubleTalkingJive wrote:
madagas wrote:
Shackler got worse for me....I just skip it everytime...I tried twice but couldn't make it after the second verse finishes.:headbang: CD to Better would have been a perfect beginning to the record. But, there is no Gnr album that I can get through without skipping a song.
Same here, I'd have to say AFD come the closest for me to listening from beginning to end with only skipping one song. I always skip Anything Goes.
Hmmm...wonder why that immature song wouldn't appeal to a woman?

HAHA...nah it has nothing to do with what the song is about big_smile

Furbush

I’ve been wrestling with myself for days. How should I review an album that not only have I been waiting half of my life for, but an album whose songs(most of them, anyway) I have heard in various stages of completion. Should I take what I’ve heard already and the astronomical amount of time and money spent on recording it into account, or should I just listen to the finished product and judge it on it’s own merits. It’s not that easy to do. Ultimately, it wouldn’t be fair to myself to deny my prior knowledge of the songs. ‘Democracy isn’t just about the music for me. It’s the journey that makes it’s release so special to me. Overall, I am very pleased with Chinese Democracy. I like it…But, like most music that spends a healthy amount of time on constant rotation in the Jetta, I start to pick it apart. The only albums that seem to be immune to this process are the timeless ones.

Chinese Democracy is not one of those albums.

It could have been.
It should have been.

If this record had come out in 2002 (when it was done), it would be right up there with the classics. The triumphant return of one W. Axl Rose and his “New Gn’R”:
A Gn’R that was a monster. A melting pot of all the great things in music. Not just rock.

A Gn’R that was chock full of borderline genius, virtuoso musicians who had a chemistry together and wrote and recorded most of the material on Chinese Democracy together. ‘Democracy, based on the music from it I had heard up until that point was a monster. A reflection of the band that created it, and the maniacal, tortured, genius of it’s lead singer.

After ‘02, when it became increasingly clear that the record was not going to be released anytime soon, (for reasons that still remain unclear) these musicians began to leave.
Instead of unleashing this monstrosity of a band (and album) on a salivating public, Mr. Rose was instead finding replacements for them.
These replacements were then replacing performances on an already completed album. And that, in my opinion, is the lone reason Chinese Democracy ‘s status changes from a “classic” album, to a “pretty good” one.
By the time the public legally hears it, this masterpiece has been littered with copy and paste performances that sounded like what they were:
Out of context, unnecessary and vastly inferior to what the previous musicians had recorded years ago.

What we are now left with are great songs that were taken one step too far.
Make no mistake, this is no indictment of Ron “Bumblefoot” Thal and Frank Ferrer. They are gifted musicians who were put in an unenviable position.
Had they been given ample time to become fully acclimated to the material or been left off Chinese Democracy altogether, their brilliance reserved for creating new material, This review would have a much different tone.

1. Chinese Democracy has a stunningly epic intro. Exactly what I would’ve expected, and more… probably the only time on the entire album I would say that Ron Thal and Frank Ferrer added something that made one of these songs better. I like the change in the drums.. The double tap snare beat isn’t used until the solo. It gives the song some breathing room. A looseness that it desperately needed. It has that Old School G n’ R anthemic swagger and venom. A great song

2.Shackler’s Revenge smacks you upside the head. Right out of the chute. I’ve read a ton of reviews where it’s been said that this song seems out of place on the album. I disagree. It has a relationship to the title track not unlike the one It’s So Easy had with Welcome To The Jungle… An adrenaline shot. It’s insanely catchy “disco on steroids and acid” vibe and Axl’s brilliant multi-tracked vocal performance works for me on a level I can’t quite pinpoint. Thal’s solo is sick. Although, I’m left wondering what it replaced.

3. Better has been one of my favorite songs for the last couple of years. There is a flow to it that is extremely comfortable, and an emotional vocal melody that compels me to sing along. Robin Finck’s outtro guitar solo is the closest I’ve heard anyone come to sounding like Slash, ever. It has the best shot at being “the hit” on this record and maybe that’s why it wasn’t left alone. The additional guitar and drum tracks on this song were initially really pissing me off. They were obviously added over the top after it was mixed. They sound so completely out of place, it was really hard to enjoy the song. The more I listen to it, the less it bothers me, but still.. Was there something urgent that compelled Axl and Caram Constanzo to plug in Ferrer’s drum fills after the fact?

4. The Blues… If you call this song “Street Of Dreams”… You just don’t understand. Another of my favorites that’s gone through some changes, but nothing dramatic. It used to have more of a “Ziggy Stardust” kind of vibe, now it’s straight up Guns N’ Elton. That’s not a bad thing. The vocal performance surprised me. I never thought Axl’d be able to hit some of those notes again after hearing him strain through Sweet Child O’ Mine in 1992. The lyrics, while sappy, are incredible. “What I thought was beautiful, don’t live inside of you anymore”… Gets me every time. Great musicianship throughout.

5.If The World was the first test of faith for me. The first time I heard it, it was filler. Now, I kinda love it. I hear noise about “Blaxploitation films” and “James Bond”…
No.
It’s Axl soaring over Angel Dust era Faith No More. With a dash of killer Buckethead acoustic guitar work. Definitely a grower.

6. There Was A Time is to me, this album’s Estranged. A sprawling, heavy duty epic with no real chorus. Excellent arrangement, killer guitar work and perfectly blended mix make this song a keeper, even if you, like me, got kinda tired of it back in 2004.

7. Catcher In The Rye. Maybe it’s my fault. Maybe I shouldn’t have listened to the 1999 demo of this track with Brian May from Queen. If I hadn’t, I would be describing this song as “O.K.”… great vocal melody with too many guitars doing too many things out of sync for the first 2 minutes. Far and away the most overproduced song I’ve heard by anyone in a long time….. But I have. And I’m absolutely fucking bullshit. This was the best song written in the last 20+ years, and the removal of May’s stellar, subtle guitar work on the whole song (not just the solo, kids) killed it. Not to mention the plethora of brilliant, haunting multi-tracked vocals, and the backbone of the song(the piano)that have been buried beneath the cluttered mess. Next…

8. Scraped starts with a “chorus of Axl’s” that would have been more palatable to some if it wasn’t a cappela. I think it serves as a nice transition from the gentle Catcher, to this straight forward hard rocker. This song is nothing to write home about, but it does have one of the better vocal performances from Axl on the album. He’s singing like he did on Appetite on this track. And that is no small feat. It’s an uplifting “Fuck You” song that after the second or third time I heard it, I found myself humming it at work. Even if the song as a whole seems a little generic.

9. Riad N’ The Bedouins could have been left on the cutting room floor. The reason people are saying this song could hang on Appetite For Destruction is the very Rocket Queenish rhythm vibe during the verses and, of course the high pitched Axl wailing. The intro is very cool. And I really like the vocal melody of the “All my salvation” part, but it’s a B-side at best. And Ron’s pasted on solo is a slap in Buckethead’s face.

10. Sorry is flawless. Proof that this band can do anything. And do it well. A Pink Floyd On HGH monster. Lyrically, Axl’s response to old band mates(Slash?) ripping him in the press and the fans who believe it.
11. I.R.S. has some elements added that have given it a teensie bit more muscle than previous versions had. But it’s more or less the same song. Illusion era Guns N’ Roses with a modern sensibility… a shit ton of stuff going on in this song and a great vocal performance. The T.W.A.T. review sums up how I feel about this song.

12. Madagascar is proof of why the record should have come out in ‘02. During the surprise performance on the VMA’s, This song blew me away. Now, I’m pretty much burnt out on it. It’s a good, epic, Axl song. Next…

13. This I Love… So this is It, huh? The mythical This I Love? I gotta say, at first I was a tad taken aback at how cheesy this song is on the surface. But once I took the time to pay attention to how sincerely heartbroken Axl sounds on this track, it’s tough to be so cynical. The guitar solo gets a bad rap. Sure, Slash (or Buckethead) probably could’ve blown Robin’s solo out of the water, But they don’t. And Robin does a good job of transferring the vocal emotion to his guitar.. Well done, sir. Easily the second best track on the album, next to…

14. Prostitute. A stunning closer. If this song is a snapshot of the things to come… Sign me up. Great drumming(please come back, Brain) and a vibe that is at the same time mellow and heavy. The outro is immense…I don’t even know what to say.. I’m a blithering idiot. This song rules.

Overall: 7 out of 10
This album would have easily been an 8 or a 9 if some of the best material on it hadn’t been mercilessly butchered after Andy Wallace mixed it to perfection.
Production issues aside, this is a strong album that will never live up to the expectations that were created by fans and critics alike. Axl should be proud of Chinese Democracy. It leaves the past behind and blows the doors open to endless possibilities. The real lesson to be learned here is:
If it ain’t broke, don’t fix it.

Smoking Guns

After listening to CD on the way home, I put in Live Era. An unpolished album with mistakes that is somewhat "stripped". I wanted to hear live estranged to get the vibe of that band on a song that everyone says is now ranked below This I Love on HTGTH. Estranged is such a truly magical song and epic and just about perfect. Slash's tones and solos and driving guitar lines carry the song in a way no guitars lines on CD come close too. Estranged eats TIL and shits it out again. Not even close. Then I put on Rocket Queen, which I guess is kind of like TWAT or something because its like a two for one rocker with some guitar solos. Again, Rocket Queen, a song that isn't even a huge GNR hit, destroys pretty much everything on CD. That outro and Axl's vocals and guitar solo. Wow.

Many GNR fans have dumbed down expectations so much that anything is brilliant just because it is released. Axl had brilliant moments on the album, but even him alone with world class musicians cannot capture the feel of what Him, Izzy, Slash, Duff, etc did. I feel like I too am guilty at giving Axl free pass after free pass etc. Also, even as a fan of Bass, there is too much damn bass on the album. Makes my speakers rattle so I am forced to adjust my eq.

tejastech08

Smoking Guns wrote:

After listening to CD on the way home, I put in Live Era. An unpolished album with mistakes that is somewhat "stripped". I wanted to hear live estranged to get the vibe of that band on a song that everyone says is now ranked below This I Love on HTGTH. Estanged is such a truly magical song and epic and just about perfect. Slash's tones and solos and driving guitar lines carry the song in a way no guitars lines on CD come close too. Estranged eats TIL and shits it out again. Not even close. Then I put on Rocket Queen, which I guess is kind of like TWAT or something because its like a two for one rocker with some guitar solos. Again, Rocket Queen, a song that isn't even a huge GNR hit, destroys pretty much everything on CD. That outro and Axl's vocals and guitar solo. Wow.
Many GNR fans have dumbed down expectations so much that anything is brilliant just because it is released. Axl had brilliant moments on the album, but even him alone with world class musicians cannot capture the feel of what Him, Izzy, Slash, Duff, etc did. I feel like I too am guilty at giving Axl free pass after free pass etc. Also, even as a fan of Bass, there is too much damn bass on the album. Makes my speakers rattle so I am forced to adjust my eq.

"This I Love" ain't in Estranged's league. But "Sorry" is. And yeah, I realize the lyrical content is pretty much the complete opposite. One is a ballad and the other is angry as shit.

And I would agree with you about Rocket Queen. But then again, that is one of my favorites...possibly my favorite GN'R track ever, so I'm probably biased in thinking that nothing on CD is in its league.

Smoking Guns

tejastech08 wrote:

Smoking Guns wrote:
After listening to CD on the way home, I put in Live Era. An unpolished album with mistakes that is somewhat "stripped". I wanted to hear live estranged to get the vibe of that band on a song that everyone says is now ranked below This I Love on HTGTH. Estanged is such a truly magical song and epic and just about perfect. Slash's tones and solos and driving guitar lines carry the song in a way no guitars lines on CD come close too. Estranged eats TIL and shits it out again. Not even close. Then I put on Rocket Queen, which I guess is kind of like TWAT or something because its like a two for one rocker with some guitar solos. Again, Rocket Queen, a song that isn't even a huge GNR hit, destroys pretty much everything on CD. That outro and Axl's vocals and guitar solo. Wow.
Many GNR fans have dumbed down expectations so much that anything is brilliant just because it is released. Axl had brilliant moments on the album, but even him alone with world class musicians cannot capture the feel of what Him, Izzy, Slash, Duff, etc did. I feel like I too am guilty at giving Axl free pass after free pass etc. Also, even as a fan of Bass, there is too much damn bass on the album. Makes my speakers rattle so I am forced to adjust my eq.
"This I Love" ain't in Estranged's league. But "Sorry" is. And yeah, I realize the lyrical content is pretty much the complete opposite. One is a ballad and the other is angry as shit.
And I would agree with you about Rocket Queen. But then again, that is one of my favorites...possibly my favorite GN'R track ever, so I'm probably biased in thinking that nothing on CD is in its league.

Yes, Sorry is awesome, even with the stupid lyrics, the song is very good. But Sorry gets nowhere the love TIL does. And Finck's solo is servicable, and that is where it stops, its not brilliant like many say.. They say "less is more with that solo", not, its just "less". As good as sorry is, the stucture of the song is quite basic, and that is just fine. Doesn't have to be complex to be good, but Estaranged, Coma, even NR are pretty impressively arranged. Back in GNR, Axl and Slash had a "push pull" type relationship musically. I think Bucket could have been that for Axl now. We know Axl is doing all the Pushing, but who is doing the pulling? Who is pushing Axl to bigger greatness? Its not Bumble or Fortus that is for damn sure.

Re: GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread

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Re: GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread

Re: GNR Evo members' Chinese Democracy reviews thread

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