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#171 Re: Guns N' Roses » Oh My God and the Thesis of Chinese Democracy » 445 weeks ago

Great points on drums from both. They are different songs, as the '99 demos are earliest affirmed incarnations. What we got were multi-gen covers, partially by the original players. Axl wanted Brain's feel to the drums, while Jimmy Iovine felt Freese's drumming was too industrial. They were snappy and to the point, but the context was a Sean Beavan album with NIN alumni. The concept was Guns w/ industrial flavor. The drumming style fit.

Judging by OMG and the demos, I think Axl, there and then, managed the solo album he started talking about after the UYI tour. It was his understanding on where his (Guns') music should be in '96-99. All the people who pushed him back on that were daft, or failed to understand him at all. Point being, he was committed to that sound at that point in time, album readied. Push him back and he goes into thinking mode again, listening to a ton of music (his band and others), before coursing his vision through his own personality kinks. Which takes him a while.

On the OMG mix, there's the story about in the NYT article.

Mr. Rose fussed over the song so much that he, Mr. Iovine and studio technicians stayed up until nearly dawn adjusting the final mix, according to people involved.

Axl on manic mode, OCD'ing over everything, in a top-flight studio space at Rumbo. If the mix sounds like the work of a madman, it's because it is so. It would've benefited a more placid Axl going through the mix again and loosening it up.

#172 Re: Guns N' Roses » Tommy on being the 'musical director' in Guns » 445 weeks ago

There's a bunch of interesting stories and quotes on the interpersonal relations of the band in a thread over at MyGNR.

Axl and the band are a bit like Trump and his crew at the Oval Office, actually. Facetime with the chief is precious and only the elite (Javanka = Del/Beta) has direct access. Obviously, this makes things competitive, as you have, essentially, peers telling you what to do unless if you have the inside line.

If you look at the DJ-era,

Tommy wrote:

We actually have three buses. Axl's got his bus, with his managers, and I hang out with Dizzy Reed, Richard Fortus, Del James -- the guys on my bus.

the third bus would've had Ron, DJ, Frank and Pitman.

Certainly, you could say the buses were divvied by seniority. The only exception is Pitman.

#173 Re: Guns N' Roses » Tommy on being the 'musical director' in Guns » 445 weeks ago

Voodoochild wrote:

I'm just not sure about who he's talking when he says there was this "not friend" guitar player. Is that Bucket or Ron?

He certainly had issues with Bucket, some reports also suggest Paul Tobias. Robin had done fairly little album work at the time, too.

Bucket had his shtick, which apparently grated Tommy. Paul's experience on playing gigs was likely limited to Lafayette, IN.

Tommy's irreverent. You come to him with a hand puppet or pretending to be an expert, he'll say, 'Get outta here!'

If there was any long-serving guitarist he would've had an issue with, my guess would be Bucket.

#174 Guns N' Roses » Tommy on being the 'musical director' in Guns » 445 weeks ago

apex-twin
Replies: 10

Interesting stuff. Basically, The General was the guy who took charge at the rehearsals simply because no-one else didn't.

#175 Re: Guns N' Roses » New Tour Dates Added » 446 weeks ago

Smoking Guns wrote:
elevendayempire wrote:

all that "running away to Mexico 'cause I killed my girl's lover" stuff.

You speak about the antithesis of GNR, what the hell was most of CD then??

'My girl and friends left me and all I got was this mansion'?

#176 Re: Guns N' Roses » guns n roses record label situation » 447 weeks ago

Yeah, I always wondered why Slash's guitar was buried in the mix on the VR albums. They sounded a lot better live, as he was given more room.

O'Brien I always felt was a Weiland addition, as they'd worked together in STP. Libertad was a labourious album. Anyone remember the 'concept' plans? Think Slash was the most vehemently against it, as he just wanted to do a straight-up rock album and tour behind it, whereas Scott was seemingly getting into Axl territory with his grand schemes.

All n' all, I've always felt the production style on both VR albums (low lead gtr) was an attempt to downplay Guns comparisons and was, in my opinion, instigated by Scott. Mind you, he balked at the early demos written with Izzy. Guess the idea of filling Axl's shoes was daunting for him and the albums suffered in consequence.

#177 Re: GN'R Downloads » Chinese Democracy alternative album covers » 447 weeks ago

Yup, the alternatives were better. My picks - the best fakes.
chinese+democracy.png
Not very Oriental, but visually a much better image. Always enjoyed the simplicity.

guns3.gif
This one captures the meaning of the title on more than one level.

#178 Re: Guns N' Roses » guns n roses record label situation » 448 weeks ago

buzzsaw wrote:

I am not an expert at this, but if memory serves me correctly GnR owes them one more album.

The contract was redrawn amongst Uni, Guns and Azoff, I think. IIRC, it turned out to be a four-album deal.

This would include
- CD (studio album)
- CD Remix (supplementary)
- CD 2 (studio album)
- AFDem (a live release)

So I'm with buzz on the main thing; Axl's contracted for one more album.

#179 Re: Guns N' Roses » Interesting comment on the Troubadour show... » 451 weeks ago

elevendayempire wrote:

Yeah, it's not the most professional response, to call out the client in public.

Granted, but there's a flipside to it. He insinuates Guns promised an ongoing commission, going into the NITL tour. However, they flip-flopped (Gee, when has that ever happened with this band?).

Then, the people organizing the Dodger shoot called him. He makes it sound like Beta gave them his number. Had he said yes, he would've mimicked Ron's initiation. They scoffed him for his openness and then came back at the eve of the 2006 tour, saying 'Save us.' And this was Axl's obsession over the band's preference.

elevendayempire wrote:

I wouldn't hire him after that.

Funny that, I would. The proposed 3-cam solution is preposterous at their level, and anyone contacted by Guns on this matter should know about it beforehand. Besides, Ax's public image. Tis all rock n' roll, y'know?

elevendayempire wrote:

They may be filming all the shows, but not to the highest standard...

I'd be even more worried about the allocated post-production time. That Better vid from 2006, by Jonathan Rach, I think, was pretty turgid. Given the raw materials, any reasonable editor could blow that one off the water.

It looked and felt like a rough assembly, which is when the editor usually starts to feel their way into the footage. Either the editor was poor (maybe...), or the employer felt it was good enough for their money (:haha:). What struck me was the Devil animation. Generally, you only add in those things after a picture lock, as waste not, want not. Which suggests a turned-in cut instead of a rough assembly.

This would answer the question as to why it was leaked in the first place. Why leak a version that makes everyone involved look bad, or at least, incoherent?

Axl,

If you're reading this, I'll pitch you a proper legacy. An 8-part documentary on the band, an hour-long episode per album - UYI gets two, albums & tour, CD gets 2, one w/ TSI (1993-2001) & a standalone (2002-2014). Then NITL-Axl/DC, and finally, CD2. When live footage is available, it'll be edited in. The CD years in particular will also feature recording session footage. Each episode will have a bonus vid, a live performance edited from archive footage.

We'll have you talk to the camera one day, all day. The good, the bad, and the ugly. We'll present you with any given framework of soundbytes you'll be responding to, so you'll have context to your side of the story. Just laying your vocals to a near-finished track. But I'd narrow the other talking heads to any lineup in question. Band only, please, unless absolutely necessary. They can promote it for you, too. Just release some of their extra stories as teasers.

This is a documentary about being in a band called Guns, and guess what?

You can do it with one camera.

#180 Re: Guns N' Roses » Interesting comment on the Troubadour show... » 451 weeks ago

Wagszilla wrote:

A 3-cam setup for an big venue like Dodger Stadium is a limited amount of coverage. You'll get a wide master and two other shots probably a shot mid-shot and a reverse shot medium close-up.

Three cams at Dodger with a show of this scale?

Pathetic.

I'd have done the Troubadour with 4-5 cams, with the stationary master, 2 stage cams, an audience cam... It's the commonplace setup for a band that can certainly pony up the cost. In other words, three cams on a club is the absolute minimum to get reasonable coverage; four gives the editor some much-needed options.

Dodger? I'd reckon you'd need 5-7, depending on your gear, to really capture the experience (incl. one dedicated Axl cam, maybe one Slash cam). Whoever made the call is seriously deluded about the necessities of recording live shows.


Wagszilla wrote:

I think the Troubadour video is a bit rough-and-tumble with quality but still put together by someone who knew what they were doing. I'd guess it was shot on DSLRs and GoPros.

Given space limitations, that's not too bad, but again goes back to the quality of the gear. Solid DSLR's can handle it, and obviously, you wouldn't bring an ARRI Alexa to it.

That guy seems to have a handle on his stuff, so good for him to bail out. Can hardly blame him.

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