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monkeychow
 Rep: 641 

Re: Covid 19

monkeychow wrote:
Neemo wrote:

Can someone explain to me the actual argument for being anti-vax?

I'm pro-vax and have been vaccinated.

But i have friends that I'm trying to talk around.

There seems to be three groups of deniers:

1. People who believe weird sci-fi conspiracies about it. Such as Bill Gates using it to depopulate the world, or the government using nano tech in it to control/track you, or that world leaders are working for satan and so on. These stories seem to take quotes out of context and selective data to create the fiction. So they will publish with relish the rare cases of people having an adverse reaction to the vaccine as proof that it kills, or they will find quotes about Bill Gates saying vaccination was a way to reduce poverty in the 3rd world (as currently people have 10 kids cos they expect the first 7 to die of preventable illness) and twist them to say he's for overall population reduction and enslaving humanity. Basically it's fun as a movie or troll but insane if you actually believe it.

2. People who just don't understand something bad until it actually happens to them. This is your tough grandpa type. The "we never had shoes when we walked to school so those kids don't need shoes" type people. This group refuses the annual flu fax and uses the fact they've been lucky and never had one of the mortal cases of the flu as proof that the whole thing is unnecessary. It's like the bloke who always drives hope a bit pissed from the pub. It's going to work until the day it doesn't but you can't tell them. Often these people have anecdotal beliefs that are mistaken scientifically - like that the flu vax gave them the flu one time - but it's very hard to get them to see the other side of things. Usually they come around during a disaster though - like once enough people are sick they reconsider the urgency.

3. People who are hesitant about new tech. There's some basis for this - but it pales in comparison to the threat of covid or more specifically the shambles the health system will be with everyone sick with covid. But the logic goes along the lines of "normally we test stuff for 20 years to find out what the long term effects are but we didn't this time" or some people are like "mrna is a new technology and I want a more traditional vaccine". They often point out stuff like the drug companies have been given immunity for prosecution (because they don't understand with the insurance situation that if that didn't happen no one would risk making a vax in a hurry) I have the most sympathy for this group cos it's at least logical. Like in a perfect world we WOULD do a long term study and we wouldn't have had to hurry. But I think these people just need to re-assess their math....like sure...there's chance of some long term side effect discovery from pfizer or something that we don't know - but you got to weigh that up against almost certain chance of exposure to covid in the when we open back up and 30% chance of long haul covid when you get it, 10% chance of hopspital, 6% of ICU and 2% death or whatever the exact numbers are. While there's potential for the vax to be bad it kinda seems like the best choice against the alternative situation.

I have some friends that are refusing, and that have health issues, and when we open up with Delta everywhere in 2 months time, I think they will die...but I literally can't make them see the risks....they just talk politics at me. It's very frustrating.

Neemo
 Rep: 483 

Re: Covid 19

Neemo wrote:

The people I'm talking about are

A couple of my brothers and their families
Close friends and their families

All are educated people, lab tech, personal trainer, coworker, process operator

I'm getting "COVID" doesn't exist or the vaccine killed more people than the virus .... links to bitchute or other websites that are obviously conspiracy theory heavy places...like I dunno if lockdowns have made them paranoid or what

Anyway...I guess if there is a legit reason for you to not get a vaccine then fine, but otherwise don't tell me it's against your religion or that covid is a hoax...

Funny clip from Conan

misterID
 Rep: 468 

Re: Covid 19

misterID wrote:
slashsfro wrote:

There is no reason to be anti-vax.  I suspect some of the states are going to be  doing the vaccine passport thing as well.  My state will require vaccine proof for in person dining in a few weeks.

I disagree on Trump.  At least on the vaccine argument, if it had come out after he had won.  There would be not as much rancor as you would think on the left.

Look the GOP is mainly anti-science (see the current attempts at using that livestock dewormer as a cure).  As long as the vaccine was supported by the science, most of the leftists/progressives would have taken it.

Remember, it was the left that started the whole anti-vaxx stuff with "don't trust Trump" that he was pushing it too fast, and they weren't going to take "his" vaccine. The left has been anti-vaxx for years over autism beliefs.

And the livestock thing is an actual medicine called Ivermectin that's prescribed by doctors, which could be effective for covid but no studies have been made that say conclusively, though it *is* being prescribed by some doctors for covid. People are just taking a version sold over the counter for horses because it's cheaper and you don't need a prescription. That's a really bad idea, but it's not just a de-wormer of horse medicine, it's a real medicine. When it's mentioned that people are taking it, a lot of times it's prescribed to them, like Joe Rogan. The media are spinning it to cast Rogan in a bad light. The left is also casting doubt on the effectiveness of Monoclonal because Republicans are pushing it, which is incredibly irresponsible.

misterID
 Rep: 468 

Re: Covid 19

misterID wrote:

Btw, an article I read said the majority of people not getting the vaccine say they wanted to wait to see if there were long term side effects, and fear it was developed too quickly. The FDA is notorious for dragging their feet (to the point of corruption) like with AIDS treatments.

James
 Rep: 644 

Re: Covid 19

James wrote:

Remember, it was the left that started the whole anti-vaxx stuff with "don't trust Trump" that he was pushing it too fast, and they weren't going to take "his" vaccine. The left has been anti-vaxx for years over autism beliefs.

Yeah if Trump had won, the tables would have turned....Trumpists lining up for it while everyone else waits.

In our hyperpartisan clown world where both sides aren't allowed to agree on anything, it went topsy turvy. The right took over the antivax movement when it had been loaded to the gills with liberals.

Notice how only one side of them is painted as anti-science. I also get a chuckle out of how the side that believes women have penises calls the other side anti-science.

1984 meets Brave New World.



Same with voter ID. A few years ago liberals were begging for voter ID and the right shit canned it but now the left paints you as the Grand Wizard of the KKK if you even hint at the idea of voter ID.

Same thing happened with conspiracies. Years ago it was a both sides thing....now only the far right are allowed to believe in any of it.

They definitely ruined conspiracy sites so  I don't really blame the other side for distancing themselves from it.

Wagszilla
 Rep: 16 

Re: Covid 19

Wagszilla wrote:
Neemo wrote:

Can someone explain to me the actual argument for being anti-vax?

TL;DR: The ruling establishment has been provably lying through their teeth to people since this thing started.

Neemo wrote:

Can someone explain to me the actual argument for being anti-vax?

The term "anti-vaxxer" is a propaganda term. It is applying social shame to ostracize the individual and send a warning message to the group that if they themselves stray from the official narrative or support those who do, they will be punished. Religions do this all the time: they call others deviants, heretics, infidels, no true scotsman, and so on.

The media won't tell you that in May 2021 50%+ of the CDC's staff was unvaccinated or bring on credentialed doctors and epidemiologists from reputable institutions (as if that actually mattered to real science) to discuss their views. It's using a boogeyman, ie: magnet lady or fat guy from the trailer park to shame you into submission. So in the face of propaganda in both methods and execution, why would you not be suspicious?

James wrote:

Notice how only one side of them is painted as anti-science. I also get a chuckle out of how the side that believes women have penises calls the other side anti-science..

Because modern leftism is merely colonialism to dress up its real goal: the accumulation and preservation of power.

James
 Rep: 644 

Re: Covid 19

James wrote:

This one is pretty good....

qTYGLj-cNpUD9YIpx--u072VZJY3VTXWSe8aG-85l4Q.jpg?width=640&crop=smart&auto=webp&s=cc0920d107a8f488fc0e646a0a16affcbc02ecc1

Axl S
 Rep: 109 

Re: Covid 19

Axl S wrote:
James wrote:

Notice how only one side of them is painted as anti-science. I also get a chuckle out of how the side that believes women have penises calls the other side anti-science.

There's a lot of research on gender identity and trasgenderism. It's backed up. Here's a post from Harvard detailing multiple peer reviewed studies on the topic.

https://sitn.hms.harvard.edu/flash/2016 … -identity/

Just because you refuse to acknowledge/decide to hate on people over doesn't mean you can label it anti-science, you're wrong, the hard science about it exists - you choose not to listen.


The antivax stuff exists because there are sadly a lot stupid people who also have a very understandable mistrust of government institutions. For decades now politicians from both sides have eroded public trust. The internet then allows this shit to spread at lightspeed.

misterID
 Rep: 468 

Re: Covid 19

misterID wrote:

Dude, they're replacing the term mother with birthing people. The hard science is that there are medical issues trans women have that women don't and vice versa. Hard science isn't about cosplay. Switching from one gender to another by just dressing that way is not scientific or genetic. Woke science has nothing to say on detransitioning, which is a group of trans people who are mercilessly bullied by the trans community, and they're entire existence is denied. These are just academics who want to be cool.

I'll call them whatever they want, but if you have a penis, you're not a woman. I love how the media and woke science were attacking women who complained of the trans woman at that spa walking around exposing their penis at them, including a child, that they were transphobes. Turns out the person was a sex offender. Being gender fluid is not scientific, it's a lifestyle.

James
 Rep: 644 

Re: Covid 19

James wrote:

I'm aware of all the "research".  I'm not some Nazi Trumper new to this rodeo.

Changes to the DSM-V is what fueled most of this crap. The trans craze also perfectly coincides with the mainstreaming of porn. Not a coincidence.

Went from being one in a million people claiming to be trans for centuries but thanks to social engineering through social media the past decade, everyone and their grandma is now trans. Middle aged men hooked on porn, destroying their families over being women now, teens getting sucked into this nonsense, and even worse is the little kids who wouldn't know about any of this crap if it wasn't being spoon-fed to them.

All these people know they're not really women and out of the miniscule amount that don't realize it, 90% of them detrans at some point.

Used to be some great subs on Reddit documenting this stuff....along with links to the people claiming to be trans. The vile shit you'd see from them was an eye opener...and all of it led straight back to the source. You want a few examples?

- Going into women's restrooms and jerking off their "girl dicks" and filming it

-  Scamming money for their "titty Skittles"

- Taking women's used tampons from the trash and either sucking on them or sticking them up their butt...yes they posted pictures doing this.

- Hanging out at parks watching children. A handful that were doxxed were registered sex offenders.

Clearly mental illness and porn addiction are fueling this craze.

How did they find these people? Random people on the various trans subs.

Unfortunately those subs, including the largest feminist sub on Reddit, had to be destroyed....for "hate speech".

Funny that posting their own words and images for documentation is hate speech. What's it called when you don't post their words or images?

Closest thing on there now although it's fairly sanitized is...

https://www.reddit.com/r/detrans/


That's on thin ice too.

Funny how the studies the gang clings to ignores all this shit.

Back when the world was normal, the handful of trans were gay men with major psychological issues.

Today's world? A bunch of porn addicted straight men pretending to be lesbians. These are the types that feminist sub I used to read would zero in on.

Aren't they so lucky how feminist communities who refused to cater to this nonsense got wiped out?


Just because you refuse to acknowledge/decide to hate on people

Are we really going to do this again?

That would be like saying I hate men.

Ridiculous.

All I'm deciding to do is not pretend women have penises. Why? Because they don't. Until 10 years ago, two year olds understood this.

In a brewing dystopic Idiocracy, adults are now confused about simple concepts.

Women don't film themselves jerking off in bathrooms...they don't sexualize their periods,, and they don't cruise parks for kids...list goes on.

You know who does sick shit like that?





The pendulum is going to swing back just like it did after the roaring 20's....and the science will follow....as usual.

Will you believe the science then? If not, why?

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