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metallex78
 Rep: 192 

Re: Wtf happened to…Better

metallex78 wrote:
elevendayempire wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

By far the best song on the album and I still think it rocks 13 (15) years later.  Nothing on the album that was changed bothered me as much as Slash's changes for playing it live.  Robin didn't rewrite SCOM or NR, I wish Slash would just play it as written instead of making it his own.

Uh are you kidding, Robin completely reworked those solos when playing them live.

Hard to believe that performance is over 20 years old now, and that was the start of the nuGNR era...

James
 Rep: 643 

Re: Wtf happened to…Better

James wrote:

Ahh yeah the old new GNR shows... memory lane.

Reminds me of when my uncle and I would watch shows in 2006...Inland Invasion being the big enchilada. I would laugh at how they were butchering CD songs and he would laugh at how they were butchering the classic songs.

For laughs and pure cringe I highly recommend that Inland Invasion show. Fortus should've been fired on the spot.

I just looked for Madagascar on youtube. Used to be several videos of it...now they're all gone. I'm not surprised.

Re: Wtf happened to…Better

Sky Dog wrote:

Buckethead nails that November Rain solo....plus his sublime take on the Kohd solo plus the ultimate mind fuck solo on Madagascar....my faves from that show. bucket

Wagszilla
 Rep: 16 

Re: Wtf happened to…Better

Wagszilla wrote:

The final mix is hot garbage.

The “meltdown” effect should come through your speakers. Robin’s guitar is over fuzzed. There’s no cool drum break down they did live.

The 2006 version was closest to the mark.

I’m sure there’s a 2002-2003 version which sounds pretty great somewhere.

James
 Rep: 643 

Re: Wtf happened to…Better

James wrote:
Sky Dog wrote:

plus the ultimate mind fuck solo on Madagascar....my faves from that show. bucket

Rio Madagascar is the peak of new GNR.

Buckethead is channeling Satan here.

It's unfortunate we'll never get the story on what led to this unconventional version of the solo.

If new GNR had become popular, released albums, etc...this performance would have found its way into the zeitgeist and would be looked upon as one of the most iconic solos.

Instead...only a handful of people give a shit.


I'd love to see the alternative universe where the album comes out a few months after this show.

James
 Rep: 643 

Re: Wtf happened to…Better

James wrote:
elevendayempire wrote:

With decent management and PR they could've made something of it; there was curiosity there among the audience, you can see it in that VMA performance

As a hardcore fan in the late 90s-early 00s....this shit was really frustrating.

They weren't even trying.

When a major band(ANY band) is several years into an attempted comeback and new album, if the public doesn't know the names of the band, you're doing something wrong and need to go back to the drawing board.

Hell...some hardcore fans didn't even know the names of these people.


He couldn't get over the loss of Slash and talked about having to rebuild the whole thing from scratch.

He had his new Slash!! He literally fell into his lap! How the fuck he didn't realize this I will never know.

The iconic imagery can seamlessly switch from Axl with his arm around a chain smoking top hat to a KFC bucket and mask.

Buckethead joining was his supposed dreams of moving forward with GNR into the 21st century come to life.

The lineup at this point is so good that its virtually a supergroup.

One of the problems....

Our of....

Buckethead
Finck
Huge/Fortus

Somebody has to go....flip a coin if you have to. It's redundant and makes it seem like The Doobie Brothers onstage. We found out later on that there was no "grand vision" behind it....Finck wanted back in, forced his way in at the last second, and Axl didn't want to fire anyone.

Fire someone.

Image wise it needed to revolve around Axl and Bucket....and push Tommy's comeback as well.

The promo...other than Axl who doesn't like doing this stuff...has to revolve around Tommy and Brain. The Bucket character ok but in small doses.

They needed REAL management.

They needed an Azoff style manager who's not interested in a reunion.

The army of Yes men and housekeepers and janitors killed them. New GNR wasn't taken seriously by anyone in the camp. Not even a single picture was taken of the lineup that recorded the album.


And while we're on the subject, whose bright idea was it to do a weird medley of old and new?

It reeks of uncertainty and lack of confidence. He appears to want to move forward (or so we're told) yet needs the crowd pop that Jungle provides.

Instead of making a decision between something new to promote the new band and tour or drown it in nostalgia, they choose to merge the two ideas into one.

While it did provide a huge buzz, it was the worst choice they could've went with.

Medleys can serve a purpose. I don't even think they were the first to do one at the VMA's(Madonna?)....but it simply wasn't called for in this situation.

slashsfro
 Rep: 50 

Re: Wtf happened to…Better

slashsfro wrote:
James wrote:

As a hardcore fan in the late 90s-early 00s....this shit was really frustrating.

They weren't even trying.

When a major band(ANY band) is several years into an attempted comeback and new album, if the public doesn't know the names of the band, you're doing something wrong and need to go back to the drawing board.

Hell...some hardcore fans didn't even know the names of these people.


He couldn't get over the loss of Slash and talked about having to rebuild the whole thing from scratch.

He had his new Slash!! He literally fell into his lap! How the fuck he didn't realize this I will never know.

The iconic imagery can seamlessly switch from Axl with his arm around a chain smoking top hat to a KFC bucket and mask.

Buckethead joining was his supposed dreams of moving forward with GNR into the 21st century come to life.

The lineup at this point is so good that its virtually a supergroup.

One of the problems....

Our of....

Buckethead
Finck
Huge/Fortus

Somebody has to go....flip a coin if you have to. It's redundant and makes it seem like The Doobie Brothers onstage. We found out later on that there was no "grand vision" behind it....Finck wanted back in, forced his way in at the last second, and Axl didn't want to fire anyone.

Fire someone.

Image wise it needed to revolve around Axl and Bucket....and push Tommy's comeback as well.

The promo...other than Axl who doesn't like doing this stuff...has to revolve around Tommy and Brain. The Bucket character ok but in small doses.

They needed REAL management.

They needed an Azoff style manager who's not interested in a reunion.

The army of Yes men and housekeepers and janitors killed them. New GNR wasn't taken seriously by anyone in the camp. Not even a single picture was taken of the lineup that recorded the album.


This post needs to be read more.  Thanks for bringing it up really.  I mean, all he really had to do was give an interview with a reporter (cough KURT LODER) and introduce the guy and maybe crack a few lighthearted jokes about how he replaced one hatted guitar player with another one.

On the 3 guitar thing:  they never needed a 3rd guitar player.  Not sure why they felt like wasting the money on that slot.  Plus from everything I've read is that Paul Huge is not really a great guitar player.  Probably better served as Axl's songwritng buddy.

Oh this seems minor but on that VMA appearance, he really should have ditched the Football jersey attire.  It just left a bad image.

Re: Wtf happened to…Better

Sky Dog wrote:

Axl looked like an idiot.

metallex78
 Rep: 192 

Re: Wtf happened to…Better

metallex78 wrote:

NuGNR - the band of freaks, wasn’t going to make it huge the same way a bunch of cool looking rockers in classic GN’R were. They just alienated their audience that liked them in the first place.

James
 Rep: 643 

Re: Wtf happened to…Better

James wrote:
metallex78 wrote:

NuGNR - the band of freaks, wasn’t going to make it huge the same way a bunch of cool looking rockers in classic GN’R were. They just alienated their audience that liked them in the first place.

That's only because Axl, the GNR camp, and the label were too scared.


Axl was unwilling to play high stakes poker.

To move forward with that 2000-02 lineup....he had to do one thing....

Go ALL IN.

Yes it's a huge risk....you could lose it all...but it's the only way.

Have to sever ties with the past, only play 2-3 key old songs, quickly move forward with new material, tour, more material, never look back, and most important of all....tell your fans straight up what is going to happen...and stick to it.

He could've forced the label to play ball. When they balk releasing it in 2001,  throw it on Napster. It forces the label to rush it into stores.

He was unwilling to cross the Rubicon for various reasons.

Due to this reluctance...the fans got a mish-mash of AFD rehash to pull in casuals while dangling a phantom chinese carrot to keep the hardcore base interested.

Thanks to his constant negativity in regards to Slash and the gang, and the all talk little action about the new band/album, he painted himself into a corner of his own making that he couldn't get out of.

It dragged out the whole saga unnecessarily for ten years longer than it should have.

The saga continues to look worse in hindsight....not better.

To a degree...the Village Sessions leak vindicated him. He really did have two albums being brewed up in 2000....but at the same time this points out what a waste the whole saga really was.

Now none of it matters.

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