Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks

Bright Eyes 2005

I think Lefsetz has very valid points, and Irving Azoff does as well--regarding the leaks. My bet is Azoff has an online plan, as Lefsetz suggests. Azoff has another good point--the leaks were unfinished, and not in the "system" yet--in other words, GNR is going to play the online game, but they are going to deliver the media to the fans, and engage with the fans in their own fashion not Skwerls. Great insight, and realize, Lefsetz is a heavyweight, him and Irving Azoff know each other, and have mutual respect--hence the quick response by Azoff.

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/ … -responds/

"You are missing the points on leaks. Once the album is delivered and in the pipeline the artist doesn't freak out. When it's a leak of a work in progress it's like photographing one of them in the nude that doesn't want to do that'¦ the gnr leaks were poor quality unmixed and unfinished." -Irving

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/ … ore-g-n-r/

A little birdie told me the deal with Best Buy is done. All that's left to do is sign the contract.

Of all the marketing/distribution ideas I received in response to my missive, I'll only reveal one, that upon the album's release, Axl Rose should commit suicide.

This is brilliant insight. Nothing's a better story than the death of a cultural icon, especially one who flaunted convention. TV and print execute vigils, MTV shunts aside all programming but "The Hills" to show classic videos, and print runs endless tributes. We have public mourning that results in umpteen sales. Assuming there's enough product in the marketplace. At least John Lennon was smart enough to get shot just when his new album was released. Elvis croaked between album cycles, RCA had to run presses 24/7 to crank out albums and fulfill demand. A la Darby Crash, Axl could consort with his label, hinting/informing Jimmy Iovine of his plans, thus making sure enough of "Chinese Democracy" was shipped. Hell, what would happen if AC/DC died in a plane crash? Everybody would be wanting to click and buy at iTunes'¦ Just another reason why online trumps brick and mortar. There's endless inventory!

But that's not the only online revolution.

Catching up on last week's newspapers I read another story about the blogger arrested for airing "Chinese Democracy" on his site. I was stunned at the amount of blowback I've heard re this. It's kind of like "Bambi meets Godzilla". But worse, '˜cause in this case Bambi is friends with Godzilla, she's a fan.

Fans. They're the hardest thing to acquire. You can buy publicity, you can pay off distributors. There's mutual self-interest. You want to sell and they want to profit. Newspapers don't do stories on acts no one cares about, and television is only interested in stars. But fans are not doing business. There's no financial payoff for being a fan. It's an end-user application. You don't build up your fandom and sell it. You own it. At least until it fades away when the act does something heinous, like stand up to Napster.

That's haunting Metallica nearly a decade out. Metallica was right, but their fans thought they were wrong. And you always want to come out on the side of your fans. Metallica has learned its lesson. But the record labels have not.

But they truly don't understand the vast sea change in exhibition and the building of acts in the future. In the future, radio and television will mean ever less. In today's "New York Times", even Frank Rich laments that newspapers and the network news may not have much of a place in the next election cycle. In order to survive in the music business in the future you must cultivate fan dedication, you must investigate and ultimately invade the online world. Because that's where fans are made today. What mainstream media does build up is not career acts, but the equivalent of wrecks on the freeway, which many want to slow down and marvel at, but soon forget.

Will the "Chinese Democracy" leaks hinder sales of the approved product when it's finally released?

It comes down to one thing and one thing only. Fan perception as to its quality.

That's what mainstream media companies don't like. Not only is their marketing ineffective, if it reaches the target audience at all, but their trusted minions, the critics they wine and dine and have symbiotic relationships with, have been wiped clean from the landscape, if not in numbers, then effectiveness.

Why listen to the fat cat critic making beaucoup bread who gets to see the movie for free when the audience, with no investment other than a good viewing experience, will let you know how good the flick is before you've left school for the day, before you've decided what flick to see that evening, if any at all?

Same deal with music. Every act says its new record is the best thing it's ever done. The critic wants free concert tickets. What do your peers, the fans think? If "Chinese Democracy" gets a thumbs up, the blogosphere goes wild, the online buzz is palpable, and the album sells. If the record gets a thumbs down, then you can sell it for a week at most, to those completely out of the loop and dedicated fans, then NEXT!

The point is, the labels now have the legal power to stop pre-releases, but is this now an anachronistic power? When top down marketing is becoming passe and acts are owned by their fans? I'm not saying music should be free, but where in the food chain do you charge? Music is the driver. The more people who own it and listen to it, the more money that will rain down from ancillaries, like live, touring, ringtones'¦ You can't cut music exhibition off at the source, this is the key to your success! Radio airplay is not going to build your career act, only the online community will. How do you get surfers on your side?

By giving more, not less. By being humble, by admitting that you're their ultimate servant. Or, by being obstinate, saying you don't care if people like you or not. But you can't have it both ways like Axl Rose. I want to fuck you in the ass AND THEN I want you to buy my album!

RussTCB

removed

Aussie

Those two links don't connect to anything for me?

I also don't really get what he is saying its more of an incoherent disjointed rambling. The only real thing I can gleen from it is he is saying going after skewerl (whcih pisses the fans off etc) was not a good move. Also basically that downloading is here so just accept it and don't try and stop it. See it as a positive way to boost concert ticket sales, merchandise etc going forward.

But in all, a pretty poorly put together article IMHO. What was the conext of it anyhow it seems like a heap is missing - I don't know because the links don't work for me.

Neemo

i thought it was interesting...thanks for posting brighteyes

I think he's saying that the label didnt havea chance to brainwash people into it being a good product...cuz it leaked early with no media influence that peopel make up their own minds instead of having them made up for them...

irving says well they are poor quality leaks anyway so we shouldnt judge CD by those leaks

i have to side with bob in the sense that labels do buy publicity and the album will sell better depednign on how much money the label is willing to dish out to the media and distributers for marketing...though i have nothting really to base my opinion on...and i dont think its that way with just GnR..its always been that way. even on radio certain songs are supposed to be on the rotation more...its not that the DJ's enjoy playing the same song every 20 minutes

Neemo

Aussie wrote:

Those two links don't connect to anything for me?

i fixed the links for ya brighteyes

and here is a response to iring from this dude

My response to Irving:
We can make distinctions all we want, but that's not the point.
The point is the fan wants everything, is interested in everything'¦ He's eager for pre-release stuff, and time and time again the end result is better and the act has been forgiven.
The old days of the act being in control and holding back are done.
Henley wants perfection. That's an old paradigm, that keeps him locked up. Today's acts are open, they're part of the fan base'¦
We're imperfect every day, and so are the acts.
Furthermore, everybody's in the nude online! And ask your kids about Flickr/Facebook postings'¦

Neemo

and an article previous to that about how CD will sell...another pretty interesting read...at least for me

http://lefsetz.com/wordpress/index.php/ … democracy/

Chinese Democracy
I don't expect it to be good.
You can lament the absence of Slash and Duff, but the real key was Izzy'¦ Izzy added the grit, the dirt, the rock and roll, once he left Guns N' Roses, the band was like Wings. Good, but no Beatles.
Actually, not that good.
Guns N' Roses' debut is a hard rock classic second only to "Back In Black" in the canon. "Appetite For Destruction" was recorded by a band that just didn't give a fuck. About you, the industry, just about anything but their next fix. These were true rock and rollers. And when both the little girls and their mothers got a taste of "Sweet Child O' Mine" and its shimmying singer, they wanted in. That's how America likes its boys, bad. It's why nerds make money, but homeless dudes have almost as good a chance of getting laid.
"Appetite For Destruction" didn't hit immediately. The sound was too raw for AOR. But sales built and MTV went on "Sweet Child O' Mine" and it was an endless victory lap, until the band splintered apart.
As for those other records?
The less said about the "Spaghetti Incident", the better.
The two "Illusion"s sold well upon release, but does anybody spin them today? They're laden with rock excess, which was drilled into our brains via endless MTV videos, but the underlying music just wasn't as vivid and primal as the songs on the debut. On the debut, they needed it, they were proving themselves. On the "Illusion"s, they were trying to act bad when they were already rich. They were no longer all living in one room, but they wanted us to believe that they were. Or, in the alternative, that the average person should be interested in the viewpoint from the top, which he is not, the average person wants to hear from the bottom.
So now, umpteen years on, there's going to be a new album.
And we can debate all day long how good it will be. And it can even be good, but will it SELL?
Doubtful.
What do we budget? Two million copies?
Even the Jonas Brothers debuted to less than a million. And in their third week out, they did a paltry 146,659 And even though young '˜uns like G N' R, they're not Zeppelin, Floyd or AC/DC. The number one customer for the band is the oldster, who now worries about his kids' soccer games and paying the bills. Rushing out to the nonexistent indie store upon the day of release to fire up a bong and spend all night listening to the new opus over and over again? Keep dreaming.
So, how should Axl and whatever boys he's got next to him move forward?
With innovative marketing.
1. Name your own price
Dumb. Already done by Radiohead. Unsuccessful with Saul Williams. If you're going to stunt, you've got to do something original, you've got to do it FIRST!
2. Newspaper cover mount
This is a good idea. De rigueur in the U.K., it hasn't been tried in the U.S. I'd say this is a natural for Tribune. For the Sunday edition in all of their papers. Got to be ten to twenty million in it for the band.
3. Wal-Mart
What are the odds of "Chinese Democracy" passing the Bentonville censors? This is a natural fit. Blue collar denizens, those who shop at Wal-Mart, are hard rock's core. But we live in a society where children must be protected and the truth must not be uttered. So, "Chinese Democracy" would end up a ten minute EP. Then again, would that be as laughable as Axl Rose's appearance on the VMAs?
Wal-Mart will guarantee product one way. Significant tonnage. Because it gets people in the store where they buy other things.
As for screwing indie stores'¦ If indie stores want to cobble together a twenty five million guaranteed offer, I say they should get an exclusive on "Chinese Democracy". But this is not a building band, it's amazing this record is even coming out. The indie stores won't cough up the dough and their whining can be ignored. This is business. One time event business. It's not about keeping retailers happy, but making a ton of money for Axl Rose.
4. Other physical retailer
This is a good idea. The only question is whether they can pony up enough bucks. Target? The promotional value is astounding. The media will cover this like the second coming. For a week anyway. Before reporters move on to something new. So, to get all that name recognition and then the additional revenue from people buying other product in your store is worth it. At a price. Twenty five million dollars? That's what it's going to take. Axl's got to get his bread back, this product needs to be shipped one way.
As for Best Buy'¦ They're never going to pony up. They expect exclusives for BUPKES, if anything at all!
5. Online retailer
Steve Jobs will never pay. It's against his equitable/level playing field philosophy. But how about Amazon?
Amazon is the number one online retailer. If it finally wants to boost its music store, this is the opportunity. It's kind of a Michael Cohl deal'¦ How many copies does Amazon expect to sell, if it has a monopoly? Two and a half million? Then it's worth twenty five million dollars. Even if all the albums are not sold. Because people will come to amazon.com, interact with the site, and buy other stuff. Furthermore, Amazon can sell both physical and digital product. The company is a natural.

6. Advertiser giveaway
This is what G N' R should do.
The biggest problem G N' R has is releasing "Chinese Democracy" and finding out nobody cares. And believe me, very few do. Because years have passed and nobody gets that much attention today. Mariah Carey is plastered all over the media and can't even go double platinum. Almost no one can. So how do you deliver this album so IT SEEMS like the second coming and the public buys it?
By giving it away.
Yup, one single advertiser. Either super-rich, like Coke, or looking to make its name, like Napster was when it bought those Super Bowl ads. They pay their twenty five million AND THEY GIVE "CHINESE DEMOCRACY" AWAY ON THEIR WEBSITE!
The publicity will be amazing. First, when the deal is announced. Then, when it happens. The return on investment will be better than any TV advertising. Assuming the corporation can pay the freight.
But that's what G N' R's handlers should be looking for, someone who can pay the freight.
Radiohead is a cult act. Which had the biggest story in the music business last year. Whatever they made by giving away "In Rainbows", they earned back in cred, in the burnishing of their image. Before, only the band's fans said Radiohead deserved respect, that they were at the pinnacle of the pyramid, on top of the heap. Now EVERYBODY respects Radiohead, they're seen as being above essentially every other act. G N' R was there, but now its future is in jeopardy.
G N' R needs a stunt. That generates incredible publicity, that puts its music in the hands of the most people, so the act's image can be burnished and beaucoup bucks can be made on the road.
The silver lining is G N' R CAN STILL sell CDs, can even sell on iTunes, if they give the album away. Look at Radiohead. Look at P2P. Everything's free, yet people still buy. Free for a month only. Maybe just a week. With a live album of greatest hits thrown in two weeks later if you donate your e-mail address.
Universal just can't deliver "Chinese Democracy" to the usual suspects and expect it to sell, not in any prodigious amount. Don't worry about the indie retailers, don't worry about Best Buy, don't worry about iTunes. Go to the big kahunas, the ones who truly have the money/advertising budgets. They won't bitch, they won't say they're cash poor, they've just got to decide whether to buy in. Or not. Look, Dr. Pepper is riding the "Chinese Democracy" bandwagon FOR FREE! You've got to charge for this privilege.
And don't tell me about cred. Axl lost it years ago.
If you want to reunite the old band with Mike Clink and make real music, I'm interested. But to give away this turkey for a fortune, it's not going to hurt whoever's in the band right now, and Axl has hurt himself worse already.
The Jonas Brothers' new album has sold a grand total of 671,887. It's going to be a long way to two million.
Kid Rock has the song of the summer, "Rock N Roll Jesus" has been out for 46 weeks, and it's STILL not double platinum, it's sold 1,718,507.
Lil Wayne has sold 2,261,580, but Axl hasn't been posting G N' R remixes for years, and he's not going to get significant airplay on Top Forty, never mind Urban stations.
"Camp Rock" hasn't gone platinum.
And neither has Sugarland's new album (699,587).
Taylor Swift is an anomaly, she's sold 3,343,703 albums. But in 96 WEEKS! Sustained by radio airplay. Much of that on Country, before Country CD sales tanked. She's been exposed on two radio formats that sell music, the aforementioned Country and Top Forty. G N' R is NEVER going to get this ubiquitous airplay.
Leona Lewis? Who even played the Olympics? 1,018,668.
Duffy, the new hype/star? 431,464
Nas, the conquering rap hero? 350,251
Neil Diamond, in the midst of a comeback, with the first number one of his career? A grand total of 362,870.
Mariah Carey? 1,151,313. And she debuted with a gargantuan figure. 463,000 were sold IN THE FIRST WEEK! After "Chinese Democracy"'s debut, then what? Even the Jonas Brothers couldn't break platinum their first week out.
No one can sell 5 million, never mind diamond.
Only six acts on the chart have broken three'¦ Taylor Swift, Alicia Keys (3,579,983), Daughtry (4,193,092 in 92 weeks), Nickelback (6,884,767 in 151 weeks), Hannah Montana/Miley Cyrus (3,134,776), "High School Musical 2" (3,256,181) and the Eagles, who've moved 3,069,632 copies of "Long Road Out Of Eden".
Now maybe if Axl gets his own Disney television show, he can sell some product. But since that's unlikely, he's got to look at the game plan of his management stablemate, the Eagles, very closely. He needs to move a lot of product, where there's a ton of traffic, very quickly.
What do you think he should do?

Bright Eyes 2005

Note to moderator: I was not reporting this, hit the wrong button.

Here's one problem, I have with Lefsetz--it seems he is celebrating the demise of the critic. Moreover, he is diminishing, way too much, the critics importance for "real"/hardcore music fans. I know certain critics I can trust, who have a command of rock history, an ear without prejudice, and a pen full of wit. I would argue, that the "demise" of the expert, is one of the problems with modern music--too many young fans not being guided to quality music, and the music which influenced their current favorite artists. A quality critic, and guide, can serve one well, when learning to appreciate art and music. It is not to be underestimated.

While I agree, there are many critics who work for the corporate media that have completely sold out, for "free tickets" as he says, there are also still great rock critics out there. It's real easy, as witnessed on mygnr, for one or two nihilistic blow-hards to say "it sucks" and then proceed to create hundreds of minions, false usernames, and basically shout down everyone with a different opinion than them. These nihilists also are those, who tend to frequent hundreds of messageboards, and due to their mental-internet madness, proceed to unleash their pent up anger, by destroying an artist for whatever reason. Too much importance, given to self-proclaimed experts, is ridiculous--if these folks would have real critics, who pointed them to real music, instead of the corporate media feed, they would "hear" the light. Instead, they just follow the Clear Channel feed, and defend the horrid modern rock, which is indistinguishable from the next band (hence Nickelback). My point is, trusted experts are needed--in many fields. Again, I am not talking about the hacks at the coporate mag's--who I agree, are hacks only in it for tickets and whatever else, and part of the problem. I am defending the Fricke's, Klosterman's, Lester Bang's, and Cameron Crowe's of this world--the real, true, rock critics. Maybe if Lefsetz would make that distinction, instead of throwing all the critics into one bunch, it would not come off as intellectual recklessness.

"Genius without education is like silver in the mine". Benjamin Franklin

Bright Eyes 2005

On another point--one thing I agree with is that Axl needs his street cred back. Now, I do not believe Axl's cred is as damaged as some believe. In fact, I think he has an easy road to getting it back. He is still viewed as crazy as fuck--which is a huge plus for a rock star, the most important stair of the "street credibility" ladder. Secondly, he is viewed as "not giving a shit" at all about what others think. Again, very important. Third, he is viewed as anti-establishment, he does not bow down to any corporate bullshit. Again, very positive when it comes to street cred.

I believe, if Axl would for instance, do a free show in L.A. or New York, it would be big! At the show, reinforcing his street cred., he should rip into the big machine: "big oil, warrantless wiretaps, and just the "they're" ("they're" out to get me..they won't catch me"), it would go a long ways. Moreover, I think extending a big-time Olive branch to Skwerl, after they figure out who at Universal was fucking them over, would be big time. Also, posting a message with a free song or two (he can do one or two songs, with different outtakes, maybe let the fans judge which one they like best) on the website would be huge. Axl, can, and with Irving's guidance, should get his cred back. He still has much of it, just, folks need reminded he has it, instead of being reminded that yes while he is crazy (we like that), he is also living a life of luxury in a huge mansion with a bevy of assistants (we don't like). Again, come from the ground up. First some free shows, then some rough and tumble theatre shows, rip the the fucking system and powers that be whenever possible--which in the U.S. is really killing a bunch of people, and all of a sudden, the spirit of Appetite is alive and well. 2008, and 1988, socio-economically have much in common.

See, the statement below, is a perfect example of why Axl still has street cred:

"I will pay VH1 $2 million to leave me the f**k alone!'' Axl Rose

monkeychow

Interesting point Bright Eyes - although I think to some extent trying to get his credit back would diminsh it. Axl has always done whatever the fuck he wants or needs to do...and that's why he is axl and a huge star. You know like if he wants to please people - he could reunite with Slash...but that's not how he works...he works with who he wants, goes on late when he has to do, stops shows, yells at the crowd....he is who he is...and the GNR policy has always been - akin to a "like it or suck my dick" kinda thing...and to be honest I think he pulls off being a rockstar well...

James

Where's the confirmation of the Best Buy deal? A little birdie isn't confirmation. In fact, it sounds to me like he is grabbing info from MSL.

Overall some of the aspects of this article make valid points, especially the offering of the album for free. There's really no other feasible way to release this. If they don't, they gotta update the official site and offer actual music. The site has long been a joke, and if they attempt to build a bridge back towards the fanbase, that site is one of the building blocks.

Re: Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks

Re: Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks

Re: Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks

Re: Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks

Re: Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks

Re: Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks

Re: Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks

Re: Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks

Re: Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks

Re: Bob Lefsetz: Best Buy Deal confirmed/Azoff response to leaks

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