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Re: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles
Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles
Fri Sep 25, 12:45 pm ET
WARSAW (Reuters) – Poland on Friday approved a law making chemical castration mandatory for pedophiles in some cases, sparking criticism from human rights groups.
Under the law, sponsored by Poland's center-right government, pedophiles convicted of raping children under the age of 15 years or a close relative would have to undergo chemical therapy on their release from prison.
"The purpose of this action is to improve the mental health of the convict, to lower his libido and thereby to reduce the risk of another crime being committed by the same person," the government said in a statement.
Prime Minister Donald Tusk said late last year he wanted obligatory castration for pedophiles, whom he branded 'degenerates'. Tusk said he did not believe "one can use the term 'human' for such individuals, such creatures."
"Therefore I don't think protection of human rights should refer to these kind of events," Tusk also said.
His remarks drew criticism from human rights groups but he never retracted them.
"Introducing any mandatory treatment raises doubts as such a requirement is never reasonable and life can always produce cases that lawmakers could never have even dreamt of," said Piotr Kladoczny from the Helsinki Foundation of Human Rights.
"If somebody is of sound mind, we punish him. If he is sick, we try to cure him -- that's how it works in Polish law. This bill introduces both approaches. As far as I know, this makes our law the strictest in Europe on this issue," Kladoczny said.
The bill, which also increases prison sentences for rape and incest, must still be approved by the upper chamber of parliament. This is seen as a formality as Tusk's Civic Platform party holds a majority of its 100 seats.
(Reporting by Gabriela Baczynska; Editing by Louise Ireland)
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090925/od_ … mRva2F5c2Y-
Re: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles
I would only support such a law if it was used for repeat offenders. Castrating first time offenders is unacceptable as we know from those day care center cases in the 80s that innocent people can rot in prison when they didn't do anything.
I definitely support stiffer sentences though.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles
I dont like the language used. While I have no love of pedophiles, saying that they 'arn't human' and are 'creatures' is a step in the wrong direction for a society and shows a total misunderstanding of the very fundemental concept to human rights - that they are intrinsic rights given to all human beings regardless of their actions or what we think of them. When you start viewing other humans as non-human all kinds of unspeakable acts become ok...and so that kind of talk scares me.
Re: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles
When you start viewing other humans as non-human all kinds of unspeakable acts become ok...
...like child molesting?
Its an absolutely deplorable, evil act. It has ramifications throughout the victims entire lives. I would actually support the death penalty if there was 100% proof of the abuse.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles
Yeah...i think it's the tough cases like that where it's more important to maintain the rights. Like obviously we'd all like to burn people like that at the stake on some level....
but my issue is about the mindset of this guy, it's not so much the idea of punishment or anything....it's the phrase that he doesn't believe "one can use the term 'human' for such individuals, such creatures"
We can abhor what someone does, but that doesn't make them not human.
Think about the sorts of reasons Nazi's didn't feel bad killing Jews, or Japanese treatment of prisoners of war - and it usually comes down to the idea that the prisoner wasn't even human - and so all bets are off.
I'm all for punishing these guys, and I'm disgusted in what they do....but lets not start messing with the defination of what constitutes a human being to justify what we actually want to do for other reasons.
Re: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles
Not sure where I stand on chemical castration.
Really it just seems like a way to further frustrate them. It's not like they still can't molest children. Maybe they'll take it a step farther and just torture/kill them since they can't be sexually pleased after castration. Who knows. In general I think repeat offenders should just stay in prison
Re: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles
We're on touchy ground here, but... here's my $0.02.
First off, we all have equal rights as human beings. Having said that, our misdemeanors towards our fellow men, women and children should be treated properly in a court of law. This means that pedophiles should be treated as human beings who've severely violated the basic human rights of their victims. Their actions, while utterly condemnable, do not relinquish them from their basic rights. If we'd allow anger take the best of us in such cases, we'd end up in a situation where, by far and large, some people are more equal than others. Hands down, it is our common responsibility to strive to be better than that.
Pedophiles are not animals. They are individuals with perverted tendencies, which may cause irreversible harm to children. This is why such people should be detained and treated properly. They have an equal right to receive psychological treatment, which has been said to work better than mere chemical castration, as researchers still argue whether pedophilia should be considered a completely physical or a mental state. A convicted pedophile, if castrated, may resort to other means to fulfill his desire towards children upon release, as his tendencies are possible to remain.
The fact that the society takes an unforgiving tone towards pedophiles is even more saddening when we realize these people come to the attention of law enforcement when the damage is already done. There is no specific hotline for people to call in and say, 'I'm worried, because I think I'm a pedophile.' Instead, out of all offenders, those who'd realize their situation beforehand are likely to succumb into self-denial and shame, but their tendencies may rear their ugly head one day. The fact that these people are considered lower than human contributes in discouraging them to keep themselves from getting help beforehand.
While the horrific nature of the crime should always be taken into consideration as the victim may oftentimes suffer life-scarring damage, we should note that pedophilia, on a purely emotional level, raises our hair perhaps more than a singular case of rape, or murder. I might argue that even killing a child receives a slightly lesser emphatic response in many of us than violating one. Is that because homicide has a certain fatalistic tone to it, and we mean think that, well, at least it's over for the victim?
It probably boils down to the simplest of answers: The greatest common denominator. We can all relate to what it's like for a child to feel absolutely helpless and in state of significant distress. We've all had that. Infants have it the minute their guardian leaves them, which is whyt they cry out, knowing only that they can't deal with the situation alone. This horrible anguish of a child is a survival mechanism embedded deep into our system. Most of us are fortunate to have had their guardiian return, pick us up and convince us everything'll be alright. Therefore, I suggest we are able to have an unconscious connection with pedophilia survivors: We've been there, too. Somewhere deep down, we know where they're coming from.
But we cannot remain as children forever. We need to grow up and decide what's more beneficial: keep doing damage control while new cases unveil, or actually taking the initiative to help avoid such things from happening altogether. Even one case is always one too many, which is why it would be better for all those concerned to create a climate in which pedophilia would be recognized as a treatable disorder, and not something to shy away from.
If we continue to be merely reactionary, the problem is sure not to go away.
Re: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles
^^
Great post.
Castrated pedophiles will not make the problem go away. The mind would still operate the same way, and they would prey on children, if allowed freedom, or if they were not functioning.
The problem becomes, allowing pedophiles to create new torment from their own, by preying on children. When does it end?
Personally, even as someone who is greatly interested in the human condition and how the mind operates from someone like that, I am a firm supporter for first offense (light sentence and heavy therapy), second offense - death. Repeat offenders WILL NOT be tolarated.
Re: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles
We're on touchy ground here, but... here's my $0.02.
First off, we all have equal rights as human beings.
Do we really though? What rights did the little girls being thrown alive into lime filled pits by Nazis have? How about the people living in villages being slaughtered for no reason on the outskirts of Sudan?
I think we've seen quite a few incidents in our history to say that we don't all have basic human rights. In a perfect world we do, and of course we all want that to be the case. Any situation where a human(whether its one or a million) is being stripped of their dignity, then someone or something has to step in and say, "no, you're not doing that. If I have to do to you what you just did to them to get you to stop, then so be it."
I would never consider a Japanese soldier raping babies in Nanking having the same human rights as the children they are raping. A line has to be drawn in the sand.
Now I do realize some may consider my examples a leap when comparing it to child molesters, but I don't. The innocent must be defended at all costs, whether its a child being abducted in Cleveland or millions being slaughtered in Europe.
Too much emphasis is always put into coddling the aggressor and ignoring the victim.
Sorry for quoting such a small portion of that post. Just wanted to make my general point and didn't feel like going through that line by line. 
You make a really good point about pedophiles being afraid to come out of the closet so to speak and get help.
Re: Poland okays forcible castration for pedophiles
The problem is, you have people wanting to figure out this abnormal behavior, in order to control it. You can't control evil. You can try to understand it just enough to not underestimate it.
That's where my line is drawn.
I don't think the victims are ignored, I think we've generalized them and became too lazy. It's become 'easy' and 'by the book' to try and help victims cope with their tragedy, and it's far more fascinating to psychoanalyze the aggressor.
That turns to sympathy for the aggressor, because people begin to try to apply logical, empathy... human feelings... to it. As much as I feel for these people, whatever part of them that was a human being, died years ago.
As the same time tho, we can't fall into the classic trap of pulling out the "scorched earth" policy as an excuse, to 'protect the children'.
