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Stepvhen
 Rep: 58 

Re: Wiki Leaks

Stepvhen wrote:
Communist China wrote:

Stephven you call on America's founding fathers as a worthy inspiration to us all, yet they were slave owners who used fears of Catholicism to ignite waves of bigotry and persecution that they then aimed at the British.

Don't twist this by bringing personality into it. I talked of the Ideal of america and the founding fathers in so much as they believed in that ideal.

And what kind of excuse is that?????


Are you saying you are rotten to the core because that has always been the way? That even your founding fathers were rotten so you have a right to be too?

You don't

You call us all out for complacency in a system that inherently possesses forces of evil, but you invoke the spirits of people who saw thousands enslaved, an entire race of people systematically eliminated from this Earth (native americans), and watched as the Sons of Liberty tar and feather any British loyalist they could find.

Are you fucking stupid, read my above post. Maybe they were all just as complacent and crooked as you maybe even woes. But the Ideal that your county was built on was a noble one. Freedom and Equality.

Once again you dodge around the fucking issue.


The US didn't rebel against Britain because of freedom, they did it because of money. And the men designing that revolution were willing to spend lives with little more than a second thought to do so.

Are you still fuckign talking?

War involves atrocities. Always.

Dishonesty involves atrocities.


If your stance is for pacifism, have the balls to say so. But don't try to paint the world a different shade today than it was 250 years ago.

Making excuses for yourself again. Pacifism? Are you fucking serious? Is that what you take from my violence? That I am a pacifist.

The only difference between now and then is that you're here now and you weren't then. Righteous men such as yourselves like to pretend that their time is unique in its audacity, so you see you're committing the very fallacy you say you have sworn to eliminate from your life - dishonesty. You're twisting and perverting the nature of modernity to avoid the bigger picture - that however regrettable and disgusting some of the things that are done in the course of war, they are inevitable to a certain degree. To use your own crude language, you're being a coward.

What the fuck are you talking about?



We can fight to limit the abuses of power and overuse of force, we cannot eliminate it.

We can do a hell of a lot to end it a hell of a lot. And sitting on your ass while the world burns around you is just ridiculous

The reason we're not screaming for the military's head over WikiLeaks is that, all things considered, the military's doing an okay job.

Yeah man....... murdering thousands of innocent lives. Pretty good job. Pat yourselves on the back.



Historically speaking our current occupations are more respectful of the natives and civilians than most others were. And to disband and displace the US as a world power would leave that window open for another nation to seize that advantage as the world's greatest military.

ha ha ha... You really got to read this bit 2 times to see the level of stupidity in it. What are you so afraid of? You think anyone is going to rise up and snatch your gunslingers crown?




Is that what you want?

I admire your Kantian priorities really I do, but you admit yourself to be somewhat distanced from others and the world, so I ask you to consider the possibility that you've lost the capacity to think realistically about a world that will always contain evil.

It's not Kantian, in that this is about the true reality of things regardledd of ethical frameworks

Your life, like mine, is sufficiently comfortable that on a day-to-day basis we can forget what evil really is, and forget it's there (along with pain, sacrifice, honor, suffering).

Exactly. EXACTLY and there lies the problem


In that bubble we can pretend in the idea of a perfect world, where the things WikiLeaks exposes would not happen. But such a world is as make believe as our perception of the existence of self. And equally harmful.

Agreed


The most noble ambitions - to rid the world of dishonesty and evil - can lead us down the most destructive paths in life. Indeed, the war in Iraq is a good example of an administration with good intent (democracy in the middle east) overestimating the capacity of itself and the world, and the results have been disastrous.

Agreed agreed agreed. Your really thinking hard on this

Don't be like Bush, and be brave enough to accept the truth of war. Otherwise you're as bad for the world as they are.

I'm not sure I follow this part, the need for atrocity?

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: Wiki Leaks

buzzsaw wrote:

You're making it awfully easy to ban you.  Thanks.

Stepvhen
 Rep: 58 

Re: Wiki Leaks

Stepvhen wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

You're making it awfully easy to ban you.  Thanks.

huh?

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: Wiki Leaks

buzzsaw wrote:

I'll simplify it for you.  Thanks.  No reason to wonder why, just thanks.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 125 

Re: Wiki Leaks

Wouldn't somone from Ireland, who really believed in self determination and avoiding corrupt governments, support the real IRA.  I mean, if someone was really dedicated to change and was from Ireland, I can't see how they wouldn't .  Otherwise, they're just leaching off the safety net provided by England.  I won't honor this moron or his alter ego with a direct response, but just a little food for thought for the other members of the forum.

IRISH OS1R1S
 Rep: 59 

Re: Wiki Leaks

IRISH OS1R1S wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

Wouldn't somone from Ireland, who really believed in self determination and avoiding corrupt governments, support the real IRA.

I would say ...........no.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: Wiki Leaks

buzzsaw wrote:
Stepvhen wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

You're making it awfully easy to ban you.  Thanks.

huh?

No need to start smiting people when you have nothing else going for you.

Stepvhen
 Rep: 58 

Re: Wiki Leaks

Stepvhen wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

Wouldn't somone from Ireland, who really believed in self determination and avoiding corrupt governments, support the real IRA.  I mean, if someone was really dedicated to change and was from Ireland, I can't see how they wouldn't .  Otherwise, they're just leaching off the safety net provided by England.  I won't honor this moron or his alter ego with a direct response, but just a little food for thought for the other members of the forum.

Yeah dude you have no idea what your talking about, in fact, your just highlighting your own ignorance.

You are aware the Ira are terrorists??


That's the equivalent of me asking if you would support, Al Qaeda in the hopes that they bring a peaceful democracy to America.

Keep you bullshit guesses about shit you don't understand to yourself.

Go shoot some civilians or something. you're boring me

Neemo
 Rep: 482 

Re: Wiki Leaks

Neemo wrote:
russtcb wrote:

Wow. This is why they say never to discuss politics or religion at parties.

anyway what russ said...every has an opinion and war time makes opinions even more extreme....

i dont wanna place a temp ban on anyone so please lets keep the personal insults to nil...thanks

Badger
 Rep: 1 

Re: Wiki Leaks

Badger wrote:

I heard all of this stuff Stepvhen YEARS AGO in philosophy class.

Nothing new.

You think that's bonus points for you? What are you, a stamp collector?

What credit is it to you if you've heard it before and yet you've not even given it the time of day to check out its truth value?

Yeah. Good job.

As for WikiLinks, nothing really earth-shattering has come out of it. We all know government have their dirty little secrets, and always will, because the world is a dirty place. You've gotta be more dirty, more ruthless, and more corrupt than the next guy to win. That's just the way it's done.

Fuck you.

The world deserves better men and women than the corrupt.

So it's some big deal that Britain hid illegal weapons for the U.S.? Who's gonna stop them? The International Court? You? John Kerry?

The government takes its power from the people. Without people, the government has no power.

And if the government is doing something wrong, like for example, harbor INTERNATIONALLY BANNED CLUSTER BOMBS, then the people need to know about it, because they're the ones being wronged.

I feel the same way about it I felt about how 'furious' the world and America was at BP for the Gulf Oil Disaster. Everyone is so pissed, yet no one has the balls to collectively not go into work tomorrow because the Master has the Slaves brainwashed, as you would say.

If everyone is so pissed off about all of this stuff, how about all of them grow a hairy pair, pick up a gun, and bust into the White House or the Queen's and cry revolution.

Yeah? What's that going to accomplish? They've got bigger guns. We're not fucking suicidal.

We are, however, as the people on this planet, a larger number than the government on this planet. That gives us strength they don't.

If people don't know about this, however, if people are ignorant of these crimes, then no one will help, no one will work together, no one will stop the corruption in the government.

Nah... didn't think so. Nobody is NEAR as pissed off as they make out. They'll shake their head in disgust, run their mouth a little over their coffee and cheese danish, go to work anyways and their lives will repeat the same way again.

How about we let people know what's going on so that when enough of the right people with the right kind of power hear, they'll step in with what they've got and we'll back them up?

Or are you too much of an indolent coward to do anything about injustice?

The world is far too passive to ever make a difference.

No, mate. You're too passive to ever make a difference.

Grow some balls, and be the change.

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