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#3041 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF » 691 weeks ago

That level? He's great and all, but he's still a pretty standard lead guitarist. There's nothing "special" going on. The importance you place on that doesn't make lyrics..and melodies..and arrangements any easier to write. A 50 inch flat screen is all well and good, but you'll need a living room in the first place, a place for that to fit in.

And as I said, the band agrees. Which is why they didn't hand out writing credits just for solos. I don't think many bands do.

You forget if it wasn't for Axl he never would have made SCOM into a song in the first place. That's how acute Slash is, he thought their biggest hit was a joke not worth recording. Nobody's disputing his uniqueness and greatness, we're simply saying outside GN'R there are no Comas, November Rains or Locomotives. If he's such a great writer (on his own) why is that?

#3042 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF » 691 weeks ago

Mikkamakka wrote:

I think most of GN'R's songs were so strong musically, that the lyrics and the vocal melody were only icing on the cake. Axl's stuff was unique and genius, no doubt, I don't wanna take away his credit, but Coma is a monster even without the words. It's not Alphaville we're talking about where the vocal melody drove the songs. In GN'R the guitars, mostly Slash's guitar was the driving force. I also think that Slash's (and Duff's) stuff was essential to the Axl's songs greatness.

That would be Metallica or Pantera, not GN'R. Slash' riffs are not meant to be prominent except for intros and solos. The sound is a balanced mix between vocals and guitars/bass. The outro to Coma would be hollow without the vocals, and vice versa.

And adding a solo to an existing song is a bit easier than adding lyrics, vocal melodies and perhaps arrangements to a riff and a solo. The band tend to agree.

#3043 Re: Guns N' Roses » What do you pay for GNR shows in the USA? » 691 weeks ago

Axlin12 wrote:

I never understood why rock shows aren't priced more like they were 20-30 years ago.


It isn't like that much as changed, other than pyro.

Now they are bands main source of income.

#3044 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF » 691 weeks ago

buzzsaw wrote:

It's pretty clear you have an anti-Slash agenda, so there's not much point in continuing this discussion (which is too bad because I think it could be an interesting discussion).  If you've listened to any VR stuff, I think it's pretty clear he had no interest in epic anything except rock n roll.  Ironically it was Scott that pushed them towards more of an alternative sound on Libertad (which I happen to like more than CB).  Scott basically turned into Axl minus the name game.  I personally think they dumped him more because of the musical direction of the group than the showing up late stuff, but that's just my opinion.  That's why I believe it when it's said Slash left GnR because of the musical direction.  Look at Snakepit.  Look at his solo stuff.  There's some good stuff there, but none of it to my ears is great and it's almost all straight rock.

I love Axl's contributions to the UYI albums.  I love the epic songs.  I love most of Libertad.  I like what Slash does with those songs; I've never understood why he's so adverse to doing them.  It's hard being a big Slash fan but loving what he did on Axl's epic stuff more than what he did on most of his own stuff (Coma and Locomotive being obvious exceptions).  It's hard being an Axl fan and hearing CD thinking there's something missing from these epic songs that I used to love from him.  That's why I still love TWaT to this day...it's as close to what I consider an old GnR song as either of them have done in 20 years.  So don't make me out to be some Slash fanboy because I'm not.  I'm not anti-Axl either.  I'm disappointed in both of them; I just happen to care more about the music than the lyrics, so I appreciate Slash a little more as a result.  That's it.

Don't think I'm calling you a Slash fan boy or anything. I sometimes have sudden changes in the story telling point of view. Those "you's" are referring to Slash not you.

The only agenda is attempting to restore some balance to this thing. I'm definitely a bit anti Slash the person, but not musically. I'd like for him to still be in the band. I would have liked for them to battle it out, have their ego stroking phases and eventually just kinda jive with it like the Stones did. Alas that was not to be and I'm tired of seeing Axl being named the only problem in that equation.

He wrote Fall To Pieces. He wrote Slither (which is basically a YCBM remake). Sure it's not jumping off oil tankers epic but nor is it what he claimed to be so adamant about doing back in 95 (the snakepit album). And it wasn't like Axl was even opposed to that. He simply wanted to touch on it. But no. So who's playing the dictator here?

Libertad bombing and Scotts increasingly erratic behavior also must have played a part. Music seems very reasonable though considering the record was beyond average. Combined it probably just evaporated whatever steam was there. But I don't think the sense of compromise musically was the deciding factor. If it had been a hit I'd expect them to still be together, or in the process of being reunited now that Scott's improving.

Realistically speaking, put Slash on CD and scale it a bit in his favor, does that seem like something he would be totally opposed to doing, genuinely? It's not like Axl is trying to be revolutionary here. Increasingly we're being left with the possibility that some failed power play from a disgruntled band member remains the only sensible explanation for why the band irrevocably imploded. How pointless.

Should we burn Slash at the stake for this? Preferably not. But maybe it should help to change the perception of him as the poor boy who couldn't bear to live under the delusions of the crazed, villainous king.

#3045 Re: Guns N' Roses » GNR played Acoustic gig for Tommy Hilfiger in CA » 691 weeks ago

It's not optimal but it's not Vegas either. He seems to at least have some form of friendship with these dudes. I don't know if anyone with a million dollars can just call Axl up these days and get a show. Hope not. That would definitely be undignified. At the moment I'm still holding out that these constant shows are an effort to fund something musically.

The band is on monthly retainer with touring payouts on top. Some of them may only be touring members. Specifics are hard to come by but from an article some years back, a full member should cash between 8 and 15k a month when not on tour.

It's interesting to see the threshold of Axl holding a grudge continue being tested. Get into a fight with him in public, pass, telling some journalist he never got laid in high school, pass, being involved in lawsuits and telling unfavorable stories about him in the press, pass.

What did you do 21 ? 19

#3046 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF » 691 weeks ago

buzzsaw wrote:

Axl was always late when he wasn't no-showing after AFD.  That wasn't an issue before that.  Don't make it sound like he's always been that way; he wasn't and that was a problem for the band.

Of course it was a problem, point is they always accepted it. His new band is currently accepting it. A no show was rare and the regularity of his lateness seems easy enough to adapt to. Less than smooth no doubt, but not a monstrous problem. Doesn't make him a villain.

I assume "he" in the first part is Slash.  He handled the prolonged downtime by doing his own thing...that's why Snakepit came along.  He'd have much rather gone on doing GnR records, but Axl wasn't interested at the time.  He still didn't leave GnR until it was apparent it was going to turn into what it ended up turning into.  Read Duff's book and you'll see this was an issue for him too, so don't make it out as a Slash problem.  They were ready; Axl wasn't.  And no, that's NOT always the way it had been done.  AFD was not recorded that way.  UYI started it, but at least Axl showed up eventually for the sessions.  All the post UYI were Axl showing up at 4 AM wondering where everyone was to record with him.

Which he easily could have continued doing. Members doing solo stuff in down times have never been an issue with Axl. Oh he wanted to continue making GN'R records alright. He wanted Snakepit to be it. Does that sound like a smart move in the mid 90s? Forget commercial relevance, would you want that to be a GN'R album? Just something they'd haphazardly throw out there? Maybe some do, but Axl, and Duff didn't. Of course they didn't, there already was something called AC/DC.

I have read it. Besides being very vague and apprehensive about all those core issues his sentiments didn't strike me as someone who couldn't stand being in Axl's GN'R. Things had changed and without Slash it didn't feel like the same thing so he gave it up. Start a fresh life and all that. As often does that only lasted a few years before the need to rock and be someone again returned. With Slash still in the equation we'd probably still have the UYI band rolling (or stumbling) in some form. Whatever his issues were they weren't serious enough to actually mean anything until Slash bailed. Even then it took years.

What?  Never laid down the law?  He took control of the band name, then quit the band and told the others they'd have to join his band of the same name.  WTF are you talking about never laid down the law...even if that was the ONLY time (which it wasn't), that's enough right there to justify playing hardball to get some control back.  The bigger problem was that Slash waited too long to do it and there was no control for him to get back at that point.  I don't think you have any understanding of what happened after 1991 with this band...your version is so wildly inaccurate it's hard to even try to have a conversation with you about it.

Him gaining control was implied from the beginning. That's why you don't hear any fuzz about it until years and years after the band is finished. If you're going by the law of the street it really was his band once Tracii left. He teamed up with Izzy, got Duff, then Slash and Steven. All of this would be known to the band and that's why the seemingly outrageous idea of him taking control of the band was proposed in the first place. It didn't come out of the blue. Niven's attempts to try and democratize the band were naturally seen as an affront to that. With such a dominating personality in the group this is what ends up happening no matter how you play it. And everybody knew it, which is why it didn't become a thing until later developments called for it.

Slash didn't give a fuck when things were convenient for him. He didn't care when he was asked for his signature and he didn't care when he went knocking on a certain someone's door years later.  Why would he? Pay is the same, less responsibility and it isn't like Axl isn't already making all the decisions. But in 96 somehow it was very important. Suddenly he doesn't want to do any more November Rains. He doesn't even want to do it the way they did on Appetite, he wants his AC/DC and that's it. Which of course is a bullshit stance when he has shown no aversion to collaborating with genre artists he himself deems detestable since. And he was the one who opted out of Izzy's idea of doing a bare bones rock n roll thing with each of them sharing vocals duties. He wanted to get a "star" like Scott instead. He wanted to do epics on MTV. Exact same thing he accused Axl of.

Having a drug problem and not being able to get along with Axl's recording schedule are all valid reasons for leaving the band, but it doesn't give you the right to paint him a villain. Especially when looking a bit closer you appear quite the egotistical villain yourself. From a fan of the band standpoint, at least Axl never had quitting the band on his to do list. He wanted control yes, but he was willing to stick it out with the original members on issues. When Slash and Duff said fuck that to his Reznor and Janes Addiction ideas he didn't try to force it. He compromised evidenced by the sessions Slash talks about in 96, and it's probably the same album Axl's referring to in his MTV fax published around the same time.

#3047 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF » 691 weeks ago

That's his main faults. Being late for shows, rehearsals. Sometimes throwing a hissy fit at inappropriate moments. You could usually expect him to show up and put on a great show. You could always depend on him to go in the studio and create magic. With patience of course. He was always loyal to the band, both in the press and in private. There was no "regime", but he had an insatiable need for doing his own thing.

No, he was always good at cruising like that. But just because he was lucky to live all those times he passed over doesn't mean that's not a problem or some non issue for the band. And if he can't handle prolonged down times that's his problem too. He's not exactly being asked the world here. Come in, do some tracks, go home. Wait for Axl to do his thing. That's the way it had always been done. Suddenly that's a problem.

Yes, Axl is late as a motherfucker. But he never "laid down the law" in most band issues. He praised some of Slash tapes back then and now. Problem was Slash didn't want to play ball. Wanted to use the situation to reclaim a position in the band. Wanted to keep coming in for a few quick sessions and be done with it. Being asked to try out some OMG stuff does not really cut it as irrevocable musical differences. Duff never had problems with Axl's material. Yet these are cited as valid reasons to throw everything on the boat.

#3048 Re: Guns N' Roses » BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is ' » 691 weeks ago

Bono wrote:
polluxlm wrote:

You say "your man" is trying. I say "my man" is succeeding.

14 I think Slash is succeeding just fine.  Don't try and act like Axl has delieverd more to you than Slash ahs to me.  "your man" is doing anything but succeeding.

I'm not acting anything, I'm quoting you. That's how you feel about your man. I don't about mine.

#3049 Re: Guns N' Roses » BUMBLEFOOT Says Waiting For A New GUNS N' ROSES Album To Get Done Is ' » 691 weeks ago

Bono wrote:

Likely to piss people off but i think Axl has a lot more fans than most who are apologists and insecure defenders. they pump Axl's tires and exagerate his genius based on the conflict and divison. Axl is thier guy and they've sided with him so they make it out like he can do no wrong. Maybe it's the genius of the music but I'more inclined to believe most comments regarding Axl are troll comments made in retaliation to people saying he's not that good anymore. Take the negative Axl comments and the postive Axl comments and meet in the middle. Gn'R(Axl) have fucked up fans and I'm sure as shit not taking youtube comments as something that suggests Axl's music is more importnat to his fans than other artist's music is to their fans.

No shit! Axl and his feeble minded fan base! Man, how you're not a conspiracy theorist is what I'm wondering.

Your inclination is wrong. I know a troll comment when I see one. What? Is it suddenly so hard to believe there are (still) people out there calling one of the greatest front men in history a genius? Slash gets that too you know, only not so much (usually at all) on his post guns work.

I could easily flip that around and say those comments (and the general nature of the fanbase) proves Slash's fans have a large degree of delusionals whom choose to pump his tires to justify to themselves his decision to abandon and ruin their beloved band. That might strike a tone too.

Is he more important than other artists? No, to each his own. But while I see, not many but quite a few, hold CD as a cherished and unique album I don't really see a lot of that with any VR or Snakepit projects. I mean Stones, Aerosmith and all those dudes did that shit better a long time ago. Slash did too. I have no doubt people find them very enjoyable but I don't think many would hold them among their favorites. I simply don't see the evidence of that kind of dedication, expect when used as fuel in a debate about Axl.

I`m not touched by Axl the man. I think he`s a douche. It`s no secret how I feel. As a musician he WAS amazing. I think he has potential now but that`s it. I post here more so cause ìt`s a topic that`s been going on for 10 years and the members here I`ve ``known` for 7+ years.  I know as much or more about the guys in U2 than i do Axl. Or Robert Smith and The Cure or David Usher and Moist. Difference is I don`t need to discuss them daily to find out what`s going on. they make music and that`s it. Axl`s appeal is the car crash.

It's not. Still you gotta appreciate the possibility we're not all like that. Many actually think his voice and music is quite unique and enjoyable.

I love McDonalds. I`ll gladly pay for something I love on a  regular basis than starve to death and pay for somthing once ever 2 decades just because it`s unique. Once again you`re making it sound like Slash`s stuff is assembly line shit while Axl`s is a delaacy that is above and beyond anything on the market.

Alright pretend it's something else, something you wouldn't like. Like if Axl had a burger chain. 15

That's the point, I'm not starving. My nourishment does not depend on a special Axl Rose double bacon, cooked just right for 20 years. There are plenty of meals. In the meantime I'm still anticipating Axl's well cooked burger more than a hot dog from 1995.

If Gn`R was your favourite band you`d realize how irreplaceable Slash is and you`d also see that in 2013 Slash embodies the Gn`R sound much more than Mickey Mouse.  At this stage Slash can bring the Gn`R sound, feel, syle and attitude much more so than Axl can. If Gn`R was your favourite band you`d see that no problem.  And yeah I do prefer a no nonsense approach. Axl and CD are pure nonsense.

Everybody's replaceable. Why else are we here? Does it replace the sound? No, but that doesn't mean other incarnations can't make good music. Even Slash might go on to do great things if he ever found another partner like Axl.

Because you hear the guitar more often than you do vocals? That's why he does it better? Axl still does the voice of Guns N' Roses. That's like, a pretty big part of the sound. If you absolutely want to hold his live performance against him that's hardly fair considering his instrument ages with him while Slash' doesn't. His actually improves as he becomes more technically proficient. In the studio however they bring an equal amount of GN'R sound.

But when it comes to songwriting there is no contest. Axl's songs are far more advanced and varied musically, lyrically and structurally. If that's not how you prefer things that's all well and dandy, but that was part of their music from the beginning. I can still hear that aspect of GN'R with Axl, I don't hear it with the other dude.

#3050 Re: Dust N' Bones & Cyborg Slunks » SLASH 'Wasn't Disappointed' By AXL ROSE's Decision To Skip RnRHoF » 691 weeks ago

monkeychow wrote:

16

I totally took the bait there huh.

The thing for me is that I DON'T CARE what GNR are like as people.

Seriously I don't give a fuck. I like them for the talent - which just happens to be a step above normal folks.

Since when are they rollmodels?

Matt makes a daughter go down on her mum but he's a good drummer.
Izzy delt drugs but he's a great rhythm player.
Duff drank so much they named the beer in the simpon's after him but he kicks ass on bass.
Slash steals some shit but he's the best rock guitarist of his generation.
Axl beat his wives, smashes up his house but you can't touch him as a frontman.

So if Axl was caught buggering little boys you'd still be anticipating his next album? If Slash got tired of Perlas bs and offed her you'd line up for the reunion show?

Matt is an idiot, don't like him either. Nothing wrong with dealing drugs to consenting adults. Nothing wrong with having an alcohol problem. And nothing points to Axl being a "wife beater" as in he's doing it right now. They both dropped the case for cash or something so who knows the truth about that. He probably did considering where he comes from but for all we know he hasn't even had a steady girlfriend since those two and we hear no complaints from Beta. Doesn't exactly sound like a "wife beater" to me. Sounds like a guy who made a mistake and now has trouble committing like that again. A millionaire wife beater would just keep on finding new girls to submit. If he's in to raping chicks too I'd expect jail to come sooner than later.

So I mean you can make a passive aggressive comment like "he still thinks it's ok to steal if the victim is rich" and I can ask why and you can tell me all about how Slash steals CD's...but anyone can play that game...."Axl still thinks it's ok to take something if the victim is weak"....oh...what do you mean monkey? "Oh..well he raped Erin in the asshole"....see how it's not all that relevant?

I like these people DESPITE what they do.

It's about the music.

That's not passive aggressive. It's a blunt and matter of factly assertion of his character.

Relevant to music? Perhaps no. Relevant to Slash' credibility in a statement made by him (which is what we're discussing)? Definitely and totally.

But you know what...I believe Slash was relieved Axl wasn't there....it would have been the most awkward confrontation of all time on live TV....it's common fucking sense he'd be scared of it.....EVEN IF HE DOES STEAL SOME COMPACT DISCS GASP!

I have no doubt he was afraid, of a lot of things. He's not saying that though is he. Asked how he felt he says "I was not disappointed" (implying others perhaps would and should be). A partial and strategic statement. Then he says he didn't have any expectations since he left the band in the early 90s. Not wholly true and doesn't make any sense either. To the contrary he would be the only one in that scenario to be in a position to have any expectations, cause presumably he holds the keys to getting back together.

Of course, we know the real reason there's no expectations. His former front man hates his guts and have been very vocal about that for years. Don't want to get into that too much though. Better to say something which will allow people to assume you're the one who has a problem with him, cause that would make sense in the Axl is a bad guy version of things.

Now I think we'll both agree none of them has done something so bad that it will affect our ability to enjoy their music. But if you want to go the drama way and try and shift some blame in the whole GN'R thing, my vote goes to the top hat for his now exposed character. What were Axl's faults really? Habitually late and prone to blow ups. Not a great cv but at least you could generally expect him to show, alive. Slash has been dead what, 4 times? Yet it's Axl's fault that he's fucked up and barely able to play a show at 11 o clock. It's his fault when you can't keep away from your drug and alcohol problem to make an album. No, you have to tour and get that mother in the bag in a couple of weeks or it's falling apart. Then, when your band mate takes issues with your attitude you up and leave on him.

But...Axl is the asshole. Because he's a dictator (which he always was), because he's got his own dressing room (he had his own room back when you were all sharing a one bedroom apartment) and the head shot, because he wanted to *gasp* explore the bands musical horizons. But fuck that, that's intolerable I'm leaving. Sure I'm the most vital member next to you in the band, but you can go and deliver that record we got a 10 million advance for on your own. I mean, I just don't caaare.

Those first few years without a phone call from Axl must have been so devastating for him. So much so that he just happened to be in Vegas when Axl is doing his first show. So much that at the first sign of Axl speaking about you in a positive way you run to his door trying to get back together, desperately relaying your message to the maid when he doesn't want to see you. You know, just in the faint hope he'll get it and call you back. And once more, you're ready to default on all your current commitments to make this happen. But that's rock n roll right?

Slash looks really cool smoking a cigarette, so fuck Axl Rose. He was not disappointed and he had no expectations, and that's the end of it.

/rant

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