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mickronson
 Rep: 118 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

mickronson wrote:

Well, for now at least..........
SOPA Is Dead: Smith Pulls Bill
http://mashable.com/2012/01/20/sopa-is- … ulls-bill/

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

Axlin16 wrote:
-D- wrote:

My fave bullshit stealing excuse people have is: Fuck em they are already rich

SO by that rationale, if u get rich, should ur boss get to stop paying u?

Dumb argument

The problem with that rationale is that people in the entertainment industry (Duff, staff, the big wigs) all believe that rationale is WHY people download.

It's not, and never was.

They are so convinced that's the ONLY motive for people downloading is to steal money ("get shit for free") from them, that they never see the reasons why most download.


So i'll say AGAIN...

People with the attitude of "fuck them they're already rich", are "downloading mother fuckers" who would've NEVER bought or paid for your shit to begin with.

You can either listen to it for free, or not listen to it at all, but either way THEY AIN'T PAYING YOU.


The Duff's don't see that aspect of it. They are so backwards in their thinking, because of not understanding copyright law, and not understanding the mode of operation of a downloader, plus the bullshitting among friends & collegues.

They think that's how everyone thinks and that if we just shut down internet piracy, that we'll go back to making millions and millions of dollars and the sun will rise again in LA.

Understanding the motive and intent of an internet downloader, your average everyday person, will make you understand that internet downloading is not near as harmful as it's been propagandized to be.

But guys like Duff refuse to. You're not losing near as much money as you think. Did you lose the occasional "impulse buy", yeah... but those units don't put bread on the table, and Duff knows it.

misterID
 Rep: 459 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

misterID wrote:

Duff - Where was all this outrage when the artists were being ripped off?

Damn straight.

I understand copyright law. I'm a screenwriter. I get fucked senseless over this. There are guys I know who are literally being robbed blind for their work. That isn't right. Saying we're ignorant to copyright law is pretty insulting, when every single deal we make has to do with copyright law. The fact are the facts.

Can it be tweaked? Yes, but something has to be done. And no one was coming to help us, the artists, before this. These sites that are complaining had the ability to clamp down on this before now, but they have REFUSED TO DO IT. Because they're making money off it.

If I have something copyrighted and there's a website that refuses to listen to me that I want it taken off, I can't do anything about it? I think not. That is MY WORK. I created it to make a profit. Period. End of story.

Something has to be done, other than spout off more anti government bullshit.

tejastech08
 Rep: 193 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

tejastech08 wrote:
Axlin12 wrote:

It's obvious that no one in here, including Duff has any clue what SOPA is all about.


Basically it would give copyright holders the right to censor, shut down, and blacklist any website that it deemed had "objectionable material" to their own interests, without due process.


Like all bills in congress guys, you have to read between the lies and bullshit to see things at their core and what they are actually saying.

SOPA is a MASSIVE assault on liberties. It has very little to do with actual piracy.

How would you like it if your website trashed Ticketmaster's business practices and it got shut down and blacklisted just for you speaking your mind on an American IP address?

SOPA and PIPA are just another in a long line of legislation allowing the government to violate our liberties under the Constitution. The Founding Fathers who wrote the Constitution and its first Ten Amendments would be absolutely appalled to see shit like the PATRIOT Act, NDAA, SOPA, and PIPA actually being taken seriously by the Congress.

Our response to 9/11 was to treat every single American citizen like a potential terrorist in the airport. And now we have TSA overstepping the boundaries of human decency with strip searches of 80 year old ladies and 4 year old kids. There's a famous quote about how those who would give up their liberty for security deserve to have neither. It's completely true.

Meanwhile, NDAA is scary as hell. Obama signed it into law on New Year's Eve when the public wasn't paying attention. It allows the President to indefinitely detain American citizens without charges or a trial. Blatant violation of the 5th Amendment, just like the PATRIOT Act was a blatant violation of the 4th Amendment. And yet the Congress actually voted in favor of them. Shameful. I could understand if it was just one guy, but it's HUNDREDS of corrupt fuckers in Washington that are cramming this destruction of civil liberties down our throats.

We've got corporate fascism going on right now. The corporations write the legislation and then they buy off the politicians to pass the legislation into law so the corporations can violate our civil liberties whenever and however they want, even though the Constitution itself explicitly protects us against this type of bullshit overreach by the government. It's a sad situation for the average American IMHO.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

Axlin16 wrote:
misterID wrote:

Duff - Where was all this outrage when the artists were being ripped off?

Damn straight.

I understand copyright law. I'm a screenwriter. I get fucked senseless over this. There are guys I know who are literally being robbed blind for their work. That isn't right. Saying we're ignorant to copyright law is pretty insulting, when every single deal we make has to do with copyright law. The fact are the facts.

Can it be tweaked? Yes, but something has to be done. And no one was coming to help us, the artists, before this. These sites that are complaining had the ability to clamp down on this before now, but they have REFUSED TO DO IT. Because they're making money off it.

If I have something copyrighted and there's a website that refuses to listen to me that I want it taken off, I can't do anything about it? I think not. That is MY WORK. I created it to make a profit. Period. End of story.

Something has to be done, other than spout off more anti government bullshit.

If you're a real deal screenwriter, your ideas come to life through film. Those are your ideas, your creations, your vision.

How many people OTHER THAN DOWNLOADERS... make FAR more money that a writer on that product?


I rest my case

You're own people are robbing you. Not downloaders.

misterID
 Rep: 459 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

misterID wrote:

I don't really know what you're talking about here. A vast amount of our money comes from the back end; meaning when the film makes money and meets certain figures, we do well. Along with residuals. And that heavily depends on DVD rentals and sales. When people are stealing that, how is that not hurting us? Especialy when you're working on assignment and not spec, which is how most screenwriters make their living.

-D-
 Rep: 231 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

-D- wrote:

well i don't think its that black and white

I used to always buy shit until i found great torrent sites..

have only bought a handful of wrestling PPV's over the past 3 or 4 years... Why? cause i can get them for free. Same as UFC or certain cds etc.

I downloaded Eminems cd and STP's... was extremely broke at the time.. always meant to go back and buy them... still haven't....

whereas before, i woulda found some way to buy them.

monkeychow
 Rep: 634 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

monkeychow wrote:

I'll write an epic post later to reply to all this.

But in the mean time I have a quick scenario for Axlin:

Now feel free to choose different bands if you hate one of these.

But this is how it plays out for me:

Here's my dilemma. Say I'm not super cashed up what with the economic downturn and all. And I can only spend so much cash on entertainment. So I go spend it on my "top level" favourite band...for example the GNR or Slash tour...after I do that I've got say $20 left to party with for the month.

Then say something happens with a "mid level" band for me - a band I like but don't adore - say AIC - so say you on here tell me how awesome the new AIC album is...so I torrent from you a nice lossless copy - turns out I'm into it and play it daily for a few weeks (get into a bit of a craze).

So then at the end of the month I go to the store with my $20 and what do I see side by side on the shelf? Two "mid level" bands I like with new products.

One of them is the legit CD of the album I got from you, the other is say a new Sixx AM EP that I didn't even realise was around yet.

Now Sixx AM and AIC are both kinda equal in terms of my tastes, don't like either of them as much as GNR but still happy to have both albums.

But I only got cash for 1.

What do I do? Do i legitimise my AIC download or do I go get Sixx AM then I have both.

I can't speak for you. But I'm enough of an asshole that I'd get the Sixx Am.

When it comes to a choice. I can get nothing for that $20 (cos I already got it free) or I can get something new. Who would choose nothing? Maybe if it was a GNR and i loved the band...

so sure it's wrong to think all downloads are lost sales...but I also think it's unrealistic for people to claim they buy legit copies of everything they've ever liked..or maybe you're all just more ethical than I might be in that situation wink

tejastech08
 Rep: 193 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

tejastech08 wrote:
monkeychow wrote:

I'll write an epic post later to reply to all this.

But in the mean time I have a quick scenario for Axlin:

Now feel free to choose different bands if you hate one of these.

But this is how it plays out for me:

Here's my dilemma. Say I'm not super cashed up what with the economic downturn and all. And I can only spend so much cash on entertainment. So I go spend it on my "top level" favourite band...for example the GNR or Slash tour...after I do that I've got say $20 left to party with for the month.

Then say something happens with a "mid level" band for me - a band I like but don't adore - say AIC - so say you on here tell me how awesome the new AIC album is...so I torrent from you a nice lossless copy - turns out I'm into it and play it daily for a few weeks (get into a bit of a craze).

So then at the end of the month I go to the store with my $20 and what do I see side by side on the shelf? Two "mid level" bands I like with new products.

One of them is the legit CD of the album I got from you, the other is say a new Sixx AM EP that I didn't even realise was around yet.

Now Sixx AM and AIC are both kinda equal in terms of my tastes, don't like either of them as much as GNR but still happy to have both albums.

But I only got cash for 1.

What do I do? Do i legitimise my AIC download or do I go get Sixx AM then I have both.

I can't speak for you. But I'm enough of an asshole that I'd get the Sixx Am.

When it comes to a choice. I can get nothing for that $20 (cos I already got it free) or I can get something new. Who would choose nothing? Maybe if it was a GNR and i loved the band...

so sure it's wrong to think all downloads are lost sales...but I also think it's unrealistic for people to claim they buy legit copies of everything they've ever liked..or maybe you're all just more ethical than I might be in that situation wink

Or you could get both albums since $20 for a single album isn't normal these days. tongue

otto
 Rep: 80 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

otto wrote:

I'll say this and I'll be fine if I get a shitload of stones thrown at me, since I'm the new guy and stuff gets complicated with the things I'll say.

Internet KILLED home entertainment for me.

I was a long time collector of vynil albums, bootlegs and then cd's, also when dvds came around I collected them since I wouldn't have to throw tapes away because they were demagnetized or with mold inside of it.

What the internet did?

Well, there was no *rare* albums anymore. Ever since Napster, all you had to do was narrow your search approprietly and voilà, there was your "Covering Them", Guns N' Roses import bootleg that you've paid 50 bucks. For free.

I remember to this day when I bought the collector's edition 12 Monkeys dvd. Another import, 59 bucks. sure, it wasn't available on the internet but internet made the prices of dvds become so low, that my *rare* edition was thrown at 4,59 on walmart.

To this day, my 5000 albums collection (including cds, vynil, bootlegs), 450 VHS bootlegs (mostly GNR, from 85 to 93 and some Waters/Floyd and Tom Petty) and 2000 dvds (officially released concerts and movies) was reduced to 50 albums (GNR discography on all formats, Tom Petty, Floyd/Waters, some classic), 20 dvds (concerts, mainly) and no bootlegs anymore.

Why? It's all digital now. It doesn't occupy physical space, that's for sure. But there's no fun anymore.

Last time I bought an album? 2004.

Yes, I did not buy Chinese Democracy. Why? Goddamn internet killed it for me. The leaks all over the place, and I had the album (with covers) in October of 2008, all downloaded in lossless format from a private p2p place.

I was intended to buy it, specially the version Axl mentioned on the forums. It never came out, so I never got a hold of it.

Music and movies kinda lost they appeal to me as in home entertainment and I blame the internet. So I don't spend much more money on it anymore.

Surely I go to concerts (watched GN'R six times the last 11 years, since Rio III, will travel to Europe in June to catch Tom Petty returning there), I go to the movie theaters once or twice a month but I don't feel the urge to buy and have things at home anymore.

If I want to listen to a specific song/album/artist? There's grooveshark, pandora or even youtube. Want to watch Guns at MuchMusic in 86? Youtube. No more vhs or dirty import cds anymore.

How I miss them...

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