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-D-
 Rep: 231 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

-D- wrote:

They wouldn't shut YouTube down, they would make Youtube pay royalties for their copyrighted material which i think youtube now does with those VEVO pages.

monkeychow
 Rep: 634 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

monkeychow wrote:

Yeah I love you-tube.

I think we need some sort of balance.

I mean the world is a better place because of stuff like that. At the same time, I do think longer term stuff like the pirate bay is going to make it very hard for musicians and film makers to be professional.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

Axlin16 wrote:
misterID wrote:

I don't really know what you're talking about here. A vast amount of our money comes from the back end; meaning when the film makes money and meets certain figures, we do well. Along with residuals. And that heavily depends on DVD rentals and sales. When people are stealing that, how is that not hurting us? Especialy when you're working on assignment and not spec, which is how most screenwriters make their living.

Granted long-term profits and those residuals are what's gonna keep coming in years down the road. Obviously a motion picture can't do $100 million at the box office right out of the gate, plus production costs, advertising costs which are always through the roof, and ultimately your long-term profits is in home video.

I just have always felt more money should be paid out upfront rather than after the fact, maybe that doesn't make sense long term.

I don't quite understand why producers live in mansions and actors (cruddy ones) get $20 million flat out for a picture bitching about piracy, while writers live broke, who created the characters and material.

Yet downloaders are the problem.

I guess I don't get it.



Btw, the only movie I ever downloaded was Halloween II-2009, but I turned right around and bought two movie tickets, and also bought the Blu Ray when it came out. THAT I regretted. 22


monkeychow wrote:

I'll write an epic post later to reply to all this.

But in the mean time I have a quick scenario for Axlin:

Now feel free to choose different bands if you hate one of these.

But this is how it plays out for me:

Here's my dilemma. Say I'm not super cashed up what with the economic downturn and all. And I can only spend so much cash on entertainment. So I go spend it on my "top level" favourite band...for example the GNR or Slash tour...after I do that I've got say $20 left to party with for the month.

Then say something happens with a "mid level" band for me - a band I like but don't adore - say AIC - so say you on here tell me how awesome the new AIC album is...so I torrent from you a nice lossless copy - turns out I'm into it and play it daily for a few weeks (get into a bit of a craze).

So then at the end of the month I go to the store with my $20 and what do I see side by side on the shelf? Two "mid level" bands I like with new products.

One of them is the legit CD of the album I got from you, the other is say a new Sixx AM EP that I didn't even realise was around yet.

Now Sixx AM and AIC are both kinda equal in terms of my tastes, don't like either of them as much as GNR but still happy to have both albums.

But I only got cash for 1.

What do I do? Do i legitimise my AIC download or do I go get Sixx AM then I have both.

I can't speak for you. But I'm enough of an asshole that I'd get the Sixx Am.

When it comes to a choice. I can get nothing for that $20 (cos I already got it free) or I can get something new. Who would choose nothing? Maybe if it was a GNR and i loved the band...

so sure it's wrong to think all downloads are lost sales...but I also think it's unrealistic for people to claim they buy legit copies of everything they've ever liked..or maybe you're all just more ethical than I might be in that situation wink

I probably would've bought the AIC album because I already knew it was good and I thought I owed a buy to them. Then I would've downloaded the Sixx:AM album to see if it was any good and repeated the process when I had the cash to buy it... if it was any good.

I can honestly say that I have never bought EVERY album I liked. If I had that kind of money, i'd think nothing of it. I LOVE buying music the old fashioned way, but sadly that died.

But I do what I can to buy everything I can that I really like, and like "quality brand names", I stay loyal to the bands I like.

On the flip side of that, the invention of the internet and downloading has opened me up to a world of great music far beyond what the U.S. music industry pushes.

There are artists in Sweden, Australia, Japan, Germany, Italy, Canada, Mexico, Argentina, Brazil, Norway (the ones that immediately come to mind) that I would've never been aware of, nor liked, or been able to buy their albums had it not been for illegal downloading, and discovering other artists through the internet.

So there's money that people made in other places that would've never seen it. There's a group right now with a new album coming out this year who's now one of my "trusted brandnames" that get instant buy's from me... and of course... without being a downloading mother fucker, I would've never been able to buy their stuff.


I'm not a total sleaze ball. I like showing support for quality music.


But PIPA & SOPA don't do that. There about corporations using government control to censor content to not only control the internet, but create a monopoly on the business don't on the internet. Very little has to do with stopping actual piracy.

TheMole
 Rep: 76 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

TheMole wrote:
misterID wrote:

I understand copyright law. I'm a screenwriter. I get fucked senseless over this. There are guys I know who are literally being robbed blind for their work. That isn't right. Saying we're ignorant to copyright law is pretty insulting, when every single deal we make has to do with copyright law. The fact are the facts.

No one says content creators know nothing about copyright laws; however most do not seem to grasp the impact of the new legislation that was proposed and would basically shift the task of policing the internet from the law to the content industry. I'm sure you'll agree that - whatever your stance on illegal downloading might be - no industry should be given the tools by law to take matters in their own hands, right?

misterID wrote:

If I have something copyrighted and there's a website that refuses to listen to me that I want it taken off, I can't do anything about it? I think not. That is MY WORK. I created it to make a profit. Period. End of story.

That's simply not true. The laws to enforce take-down of content already exist in the US, it's called the DMCA. The DMCA in and by itself is already going beyond what would be acceptable if applied to other industries, but it exists and is the law. And if sites refuse to take down content after a request from a content owner then recourse still exists for that content owner: drag the site into court and follow the same process as any other business would have to. Why does Hollywood feel it should be "relieved" from bothersome things like "a fair trial", the need to prove their allegations or concepts like people/organizations being "innocent until proven guilty"?

TheMole
 Rep: 76 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

TheMole wrote:

On the broader issue of piracy I'd say that "piracy" and home copying is the nett result of an open demand-and-supply economy and I for one support it.

The whole business model of the content industry is based around the fact that they control supply. Unfortunately for them, technology has progressed in such away (as tends to happen) that this control has shifted towards the people. Instead of fighting to keep control by lobbying for new legislation maybe the industry should have chosen more customer friendly ways of creating additional value? Maybe they should shift focus back to performances instead of recordings?

I mean, in all honesty, the government didn't try to stop the advent of the automobile although it had a severe impact on the livelihood of farriers. Demand for horse shoes has gone way down since the late 1880's, but these people either moved on to other businesses or stayed and found their place in the niche their market had now become. That's just the way society progresses.

Anyways, the entire recorded music industry is only worth around $28 billion, including retail and distribution (so it's fair to say that the music creation industry is going to be a fair bit smaller than that estimate). Google alone is worth almost double that, why do these relatively small businesses wield such great power over the legislative process in the US and internationally? Universal Music is only worth around $6 billion, Sony music a bit less and Warner only $3 billion.

Google has $26 billion in CASH, they could theoretically just buy the music industry as a whole, give the product away for free and it would still make perfect business sense for them... obviously, this would never get regulatory approval but it's a thought exercise worth doing for the arrogant pricks at Universal, Sony & Warner music groups. Time for them to get their feet back on the ground and realize the real value of what they're doing.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

Axlin16 wrote:

Great post, that nails it dead on.


The problem is that the music industry, who still haven't gotten the memo, are completely finished. This is just their slow death.

They are fighting for government regulation to protect a dying industry.

I wonder when they're gonna ask for their bailout. roll

I don't even understand why artists even need them. Everyone from Guns N' Roses, to Nickles N' Dimes can release all of their stuff directly on the internet, better quality, more in-depth, better priced, and make a purer profit that even bothering with the lame duck industry.

And their fans will still pay for it. THE REAL ONES. The only ones who were ever buying their stuff to begin with.

Look at well that internet PPV went with GN'R in terms of profits. Sure there were those that figured, "hell i'll just grab it for free afterwards", but there were still tons of fans worldwide that bought it because they thought it was reasonably priced, and wanted to see the show and support the band. Those types are the backbone of your profits.

Not worrying about some asshole in BFE, Arkansas who downloaded and burned it, who was never gonna buy it anyways.

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

Lomax wrote:

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

Axlin16 wrote:

Anonymous will fuck you up 16


I don't really know what the U.S. or any other government is trying to accomplish here. The internet is so intertwined with everyday life in the world now that country's can't just shut it down without shutting down commerce, simply because of some bad stuff that goes on on it.


This is a runaway train...

tejastech08
 Rep: 193 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

tejastech08 wrote:
Axlin12 wrote:

Great post, that nails it dead on.


The problem is that the music industry, who still haven't gotten the memo, are completely finished. This is just their slow death.

They are fighting for government regulation to protect a dying industry.

I wonder when they're gonna ask for their bailout. roll

I don't even understand why artists even need them. Everyone from Guns N' Roses, to Nickles N' Dimes can release all of their stuff directly on the internet, better quality, more in-depth, better priced, and make a purer profit that even bothering with the lame duck industry.

And their fans will still pay for it. THE REAL ONES. The only ones who were ever buying their stuff to begin with.

Look at well that internet PPV went with GN'R in terms of profits. Sure there were those that figured, "hell i'll just grab it for free afterwards", but there were still tons of fans worldwide that bought it because they thought it was reasonably priced, and wanted to see the show and support the band. Those types are the backbone of your profits.

Not worrying about some asshole in BFE, Arkansas who downloaded and burned it, who was never gonna buy it anyways.

Yeah, the industry is a dead man walking at this point. It's amazing how fast things have changed. From that perspective, I can understand why someone like Duff who sold 100 million records during the last 25 years can't grasp the idea of the industry dying. It just doesn't make sense for a guy like him because the industry was doing just fine not too long ago, and he was a huge beneficiary.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Duff: Quit Whining About SOPA and PIPA

Axlin16 wrote:

Well they're still in denial. They think the problem can be stopped and reversed.

It's a done deal.

They can shut down file sharing servers. They can try to shut down all torrent trackers, and you know what?

There still will be IRC & UseNet... which is unstoppable, short of some sort of SkyNet situation.

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