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James
 Rep: 625 

Re: Izzy reportedly in GN'R and wrote new music

James wrote:

I don't think so man, Axl was working on the CD II stuff recently, and Slash was laying stuff down. I can pretty much guarantee you that CD II was part of the deal moving ahead.

Maybe so but the overall/general point is that whatever gets released regardless of the amount of songs is not going to be in any way, shape, or form what CD II would've been had it been released 2001-03, 2006-07, or even 2009-14. Not just the fact that songs can/will be reworked but also the track list will more than likely not even come close to resembling what it would've been in the past.

Just for shits and giggles and this discussion only, let's pretend that we're still waiting for Chinese Democracy and the band "leaves it in Vegas" after the umpteenth CD tour. Finck/DJ, Ron, and Tommy bail....Slash and Duff enter into the equation and we know CD is in sight since the label will now want to play ball.

Do you really think CD would have this track list in that scenario?


    1. Chinese Democracy
    2. Shackler's Revenge
    3. Better
    4. Street Of Dreams
    5. If The World
    6. There Was A Time
    7. Catcher N' The Rye
    8. Scraped
    9. Riad N' The Bedouins
    10. Sorry
    11. I.R.S.
    12. Madagascar
    13. This I Love
    14. Prostitute

Take a serious look at CD's track list. For starters, Sorry VERY unlikely to make the cut due to its lyrics. Both would know the fan base would immediately think he's talking about Slash and its inclusion would create unneeded controversy and even Axl might cringe at the lyrics in this reunion/hybrid situation. Another reason not to touch it musically is the fact Bucket owns this track and it literally cannot be improved.

How about Better? Good song? The demo certainly was but would a song with Finck all over it really be on a CD with Slash's stamp/seal of approval?

Shackler's Revenge? This is Bucket through and through with Ron redoing it. I like the song but its a flow killer on the album anyways and I doubt this Bucket track would be reworked AGAIN and its not even close to Slash's style. Could he do something with it? Maybe...maybe not. I bet it wouldn't make it and he wouldn't even attempt to touch it.

Riad....now this is interesting. A Tommy track that sounds exactly like Praxis(Bucket and Brain). First time I heard the leak I said it sounded like the bastard child of this Praxis song from 1992...



Praxis(Animal Behavior) was being played on the MTV show 120 Minutes in 92 and the album its on includes the track I posted above. Can you imagine Slash, Duff,etc. reworking this somehow? Possible but I think this song is way out of his comfort zone and yeah I know hardcore Slash fans say how much he's improved over the years.

I think it gets left in the vault in this scenario.

How about Prostitute? A similar situation as Sorry...considered by many to be a highlight of the album with lyrics that will be looked at very closely for any anti Slash sentiment. Yeah a major theme of the whole album is the breakup of the old band/relationship with Seymour/the fans but a few of these songs can easily be interpreted by fans as major digs at Slash...Prostitute being the main one...and the anti-Slash side of the fan base instantly ran with the "Slash prostitutes himself for fortune and shame". Musically its great and I always felt like Bucket's outro is like a tribute to iconic Slash outros but that's beside the point here.

IRS...kick ass tune and Bucket owns it completely. Version without him utter shit. Tommy's bass tone is great on the demo. Other than the repetitive lyrics, how can it be improved? Same situation as Sorry and Prostitute....lyrics might be a touchy subject. I do think Slash could rework this but I'll knock it out of contention based on the lyrics and the music already finished without any need of help.

You could make a case for Madagascar but I think it would be stretching it to say the lyrics could be construed as too abrasive towards Slash specifically. Slash and Duff working on this song might even make the lyrics even more powerful.

Now we're left with...


    1. Chinese Democracy
   
    4. Street Of Dreams
    5. If The World
    6. There Was A Time
    7. Catcher N' The Rye
    8. Scraped
   
   
    12. Madagascar
    13. This I Love

Even some of that might be left in the vault but I can picture Slash and Duff taking a stab at each of those tracks, specifically This I Love(it NEEDS Slash), Street of Dreams, Catcher in the Rye begs and pleads for Slash and Duff to make it magical and take it back to its roots before Ron destroyed it.

Even though Scraped is a Bucket track, I could see them remaking this into the anthem it tries to be but falls flat and for starters.... it would get a new song title. If done properly and judging by the lyrics, this song(had it stayed in the vault) could have been for reunited GNR what "Been Away Too Long" was for Soundgarden.

Title track pretty much a guarantee to be on it but its great as is. Ron tried improving it to an extent, he did, yet in a way the demo is just as great but with a different feel. Which version would they have tackled? I'd assume the stripped down version performed at HOB which was already incredible...as it was in 2002 as well.

If the World is a damn good song, once again Bucket shows why he was brought in, but I can see this being changed completely and you'll see why in the mashup about to be posted.

That's how easy the track list could have been different on CD had this turn of events happened 8-9 years ago. Its happening now with the second album from the Beavan sessions still in play. Like I said, even if we do get it, its not going to be anything like it should've/could've been.


The easy thing to do would be to grab 2 songs from the vault that are less industrial and rock them up with Slash and Duff overdubbed. Extra value if they can find one with some 1999 era vocals as then it will really sound like Axl.

Yep. Take a song that would've been on CD II, erase the music, let Slash, Duff, and I guess Fortus/Izzy and Frank rework it completely and we'll wind up with something like this....




Had If the World stayed in the vault, was never leaked/released and they wound up using the vocals for a new reunion track, we could've wound up hearing it like that and not ever even know how the original song was supposed to sound.

misterID
 Rep: 459 

Re: Izzy reportedly in GN'R and wrote new music

misterID wrote:

I think we're making a lot of assumptions here. My assumption is Bucket and Robin will still be on the album in some form, as Axl does like giving the dudes who worked on songs credfit. My guess would be DJ will not be on the album, and I certainly hope Ron is removed also.

CD II is going to look however Axl sees fit, and God only knows what that will be. I'm just pretty certain Slash will be on that record. I think the only thing I'd even attempt to make a stab at as to whether it gets shelved is Going Down... And I'm still not 100% it won't be on the album as a form of thank you to Tommy.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Izzy reportedly in GN'R and wrote new music

Axlin16 wrote:

14

ID, me and you are usually on the same wavelength, but the Bucket & Robin stuff is LONG GONE. Not happening. If Bucket & Robin are on it, then Slash won't be. No reason to. And Universal won't take that.

Any and I mean ANY of us holding out hope for Bucket/Robin material from that 2000-2004 period, better start spreading runes around and hoping that GN'R version of "Echo of Miles" is coming down the line eventually, after the first new Slash-GN'R album.


Not a chance. NOT A CHANCE. I'm calling it.

misterID
 Rep: 459 

Re: Izzy reportedly in GN'R and wrote new music

misterID wrote:
Axlin16 wrote:

14

ID, me and you are usually on the same wavelength, but the Bucket & Robin stuff is LONG GONE. Not happening. If Bucket & Robin are on it, then Slash won't be. No reason to. And Universal won't take that.

Any and I mean ANY of us holding out hope for Bucket/Robin material from that 2000-2004 period, better start spreading runes around and hoping that GN'R version of "Echo of Miles" is coming down the line eventually, after the first new Slash-GN'R album.


Not a chance. NOT A CHANCE. I'm calling it.

Universal doesn't give a fuck. Put a song with Slash on it and they're happy.

And let me reiterate, I'm not stating anything as a fact, but looking at CD and Axl keeping guys who are no longer in the band on the album, it's not far fetched to assume there could be other guys no longer in the band on that album. I think CD II will look however Axl wants it to. The thing we'll have to see is how much Slash features on the album... Could be a song, could be all of it. But it's highly unlikely, IMO, that everything was shit canned. Don't see it. Not Axl's MO.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Izzy reportedly in GN'R and wrote new music

Axlin16 wrote:

Axl shitcanned like what? 47 different versions of Chinese before we got the hybrid release in 2008?

You do realize there Bucket solos of This I Love out there, and Josh Freese-produced techno versions of Chinese, and Brain, this and that, etc.

Axl shitcanned MORE SHIT from Chinese, than he used. Thus the $14mil pricetag.


Only way, ONLY way Bucket & Robin stuff survive on Chinese II as the next release, is if SLASH and only SLASH (not Axl) is fine with going in there and re-recording there stuff, or recording his own stuff, and letting THEM back him.

The label a-okay's it, and it's out the door.


There's no way anything gets movement without 21


Nothing. Regardless of what Axl wants. He's right back where he was in 2004. If anything, Axl shot himself in his own foot by agreeing to the reunion with Slash, if he wanted to keep the Bucket/Robin-version of CD II. He damned himself. He now HAS to have Slash on the record. And ultimately... that's Slash's call. If he doesn't want to do it, he doesn't have to. He's got other things he can do.


But if it happens -- thank Slash. Because he made it happen. Without him, it doesn't move. Not in the next couple of years.

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: Izzy reportedly in GN'R and wrote new music

polluxlm wrote:

If and when Axl puts Slash on CD material it will be to replace Finck et al., not Bucket. Axl appears to have an extremely high regard for his contributions. BH was all over CD 5 years after he left, and they tried to get him back in the band right up until the Hammersmith shows in 06.

The way he clings to material he probably has a cellar full of empty Dorito bags he just can't bring himself to trash. Reportedly stuff from the mid 90s is still in play.

misterID
 Rep: 459 

Re: Izzy reportedly in GN'R and wrote new music

misterID wrote:
Axlin16 wrote:

Axl shitcanned like what? 47 different versions of Chinese before we got the hybrid release in 2008?

You do realize there Bucket solos of This I Love out there, and Josh Freese-produced techno versions of Chinese, and Brain, this and that, etc.

Axl shitcanned MORE SHIT from Chinese, than he used. Thus the $14mil pricetag.


Only way, ONLY way Bucket & Robin stuff survive on Chinese II as the next release, is if SLASH and only SLASH (not Axl) is fine with going in there and re-recording there stuff, or recording his own stuff, and letting THEM back him.

The label a-okay's it, and it's out the door.


There's no way anything gets movement without 21


Nothing. Regardless of what Axl wants. He's right back where he was in 2004. If anything, Axl shot himself in his own foot by agreeing to the reunion with Slash, if he wanted to keep the Bucket/Robin-version of CD II. He damned himself. He now HAS to have Slash on the record. And ultimately... that's Slash's call. If he doesn't want to do it, he doesn't have to. He's got other things he can do.


But if it happens -- thank Slash. Because he made it happen. Without him, it doesn't move. Not in the next couple of years.

He didn't shit can anything, those songs just continued to grow and evolve with the edition of new band members. Ask Josh, he said the songs were basically the same as when he started. The album isn't going in the vault. And the album was coming out before Slash joined so if there is anyone we should thank, we should thank DJ big_smile

All the guys who fucked CD at the label are gone, Axl actually has had a good relationship with them, from what I understand. Slash is icing on the cake.

Smoking Guns
 Rep: 328 

Re: Izzy reportedly in GN'R and wrote new music

Smoking Guns wrote:

Well, to be fair, he took off Brian May and let Bumble solo instead. BRIAN FUCKING MAY.

polluxlm
 Rep: 207 

Re: Izzy reportedly in GN'R and wrote new music

polluxlm wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

Well, to be fair, he took off Brian May and let Bumble solo instead. BRIAN FUCKING MAY.

That's only half the story. Brian May didn't even recognize his take after Axl and Beaven were through playing around with it. "But that's not what I played", May said. Axl was looking for something else from the get go. With Bucket by all accounts he found it.

Even if Slash should replace some of BH's material, it wouldn't get thrown in the trash. Perfect material for a box set. At this point any new music can only be good. 1 real album in 25 years is starvation level.

misterID
 Rep: 459 

Re: Izzy reportedly in GN'R and wrote new music

misterID wrote:
Smoking Guns wrote:

Well, to be fair, he took off Brian May and let Bumble solo instead. BRIAN FUCKING MAY.

He removed the solo, but didn't shit can the song and start over. He pasted Mays solo on the song and removed it when Robin came back.

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