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mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

@RF - lol.  Yeah, I'm shaking in my boots that Trump will be cleared of everything. Heck, let's do a tally.

Sessions - Lied & recused himself from investigation.
Manafort - Guilty
Cohen - Guilty
Flynn - Guilty
Papadopalous - Guilty
Russian Lawyer - Guilty
Russian NRA infiltrator - Guilty
Rick Gates - Guilty

Did I miss anyone else?   Oh, Roger Stone. If your entire case is hanging onto him guess what, your in trouble. Maybe Jared & Jr are still not charged yet, so you have that going for you.  Look at all those who resigned?

Spicer
Scaramucci
Hope Hicks
Bannon
Preibus
Nikki Haley
Paul Ryan
Kelly
Mattis
Tillerson

Anyone else?  Granted, the last 3 more or less just got sick of him but I firmly believe the first several left to maintain their potential political future & distance themselves from Trump when he goes down. (I'm still curious about Scaramucci, hopefully someday it comes out. Personally I think he walked in like a tough guy and asked 'What happened and who knew what when?'  Then responded "WTF are you guys insane??  I'm out!"

Don’t let Flagg influence you. He said ( in or around December 2016) that he had already decided there was no collusion and has stayed that course ever since. While he accuses you of being uninflected  by the evidence, he made up his mind before all of the stuff you mentioned came out.

In addition, Flagg made the statement that the legal system should move faster now as compared to the 1970s because of technology and all of this should’ve wrapped up quickly.

Furthermore, a few people on this board  have stated repeatedly that they have not seen any evidence of anything. This implies that they should have access to everything mueller and his team have access to before it’s presented publicly in court.

These are all signs of person who is as unflinchingly rigid as he is accusing you of being.

Truthfully, i don’t know where any of this is headed but the momentum appears to be that trump will be damaged by something. Will it result in impeachment or removal from office? To me that still seems far fetched for a number of reasons.

But who knows? We only have one example of something remotely similar to this happening before and it took 3-4 years for it all the culminate.

The point is....trust your own judgment. And be very careful about those that you allow to influence you.

PaSnow
 Rep: 197 

Re: US Politics Thread

PaSnow wrote:

lol, in the time it took for Flagg to write that response, Manaforts attorney's filed paperwork which mistakenly leaked retracted info stating Manafort gave voter data to Russian operative Kiliminik. The lines were supposed to be crossed out but weren't.

lol, you can't make this up. Russian connections just pop up like Whack-a-mole nowadays.

PaSnow
 Rep: 197 

Re: US Politics Thread

PaSnow wrote:

TBH Mitch I'm upset it's taken this long. These allegations are too serious & connections to close to the campaign to NOT disclose this before election day. I 'think' Comey was even asked if ppl in the Trump campaign were possibly being investigated to which Comey responded "I can't comment on that". This is too big to take slowly, and the election too massive. I know ppl might say he couldn't say anything yet but if there's connections to people in the campaign then admit it. They wouldn't have been saying (yet) Trump was involved. Just Flynn &/or Manafort among others.

That or speak to people in the GOP.  Cruz, Rubio, Ryan etc and inform them "You can't back this guy".  My guess is some were afraid of GOP voter backlash as Ryan had a close race from what I recall. Still, they should've met with people in the GOP party and laid out to them what they knew & what intel they had on them. Something like that probably happened as I remember McCain saying the Steele Dossier had floated in Republican circles for a few weeks before it leaked. He seemed aware.

PaSnow
 Rep: 197 

Re: US Politics Thread

PaSnow wrote:

lol



No collusion tho Randall. No collusion.


The speech sucked BTW.  It's gonna collapse on him. Shumer did a pretty good job calling him out and demanding "End this shutdown now" (Personally I think he shoulda said "End the Trump shutdown now!").  It went nowhere, offered nothing new nor nothing to sway Dems, and he's gonna be stubborn & keep holding out. By Friday ppl will be pissed & TSA members calling out. As Dems gain momentum & GOP Senators bail out they're gonna force Trump to suck it up & end it with zero givebacks, which he won't do. So he'll hold out even longer.

mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

lol, in the time it took for Flagg to write that response, Manaforts attorney's filed paperwork which mistakenly leaked retracted info stating Manafort gave voter data to Russian operative Kiliminik. The lines were supposed to be crossed out but weren't.

lol, you can't make this up. Russian connections just pop up like Whack-a-mole nowadays.

Yup...and I’ll do Flaggs part for him.

A) but trump himself didn’t physically do it

B) how is that collusion? There’s still no evidence

C) none of this will get trump out of office


Take your pick PA.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 108 

Re: US Politics Thread

PaSnow wrote:

lol



No collusion tho Randall. No collusion.


The speech sucked BTW.  It's gonna collapse on him. Shumer did a pretty good job calling him out and demanding "End this shutdown now" (Personally I think he shoulda said "End the Trump shutdown now!").  It went nowhere, offered nothing new nor nothing to sway Dems, and he's gonna be stubborn & keep holding out. By Friday ppl will be pissed & TSA members calling out. As Dems gain momentum & GOP Senators bail out they're gonna force Trump to suck it up & end it with zero givebacks, which he won't do. So he'll hold out even longer.


Let’s break this down by each claim as we know they occurred:

1.)Trump asked Russia to hack Clinton

He asked “Russia” to release Clinton’s 33k emails she removed, with no independent review, from her private server she illegally retained classified information on and performed her duties as Secretary of State. Those 33k emails have never appeared. They were never hacked (that we know of) and were never released.

What was released and “hacked” (Podesta gave his password away through a phishing email) were emails from the DNC and Podesta. Our intelligence agencies agree this was likely Russian behavior.

So the thing the Russians did, isn’t what Trump asked for.

So already at the start, your entire argument is flawed because you’re intentionally misrepresenting what occurred to support your conspiracy based conclusion that Trump collided with Russia.

2.) Don Jr met with someone with connections to (but not part of) Russian intelligence, promising dirt.

Yep. No doubt about it. And no doubt no information was exchanged.  Emails being sent during the meeting to end it because it wasn’t fruitful. No evidence the “Russian lawyer” represented herself as connected to the KGB, or that Jr or Kushner thought she had any connection to Russian intel. And more importantly, nothing illegal being done.  Accusations of loose interpretations of espionage law aren’t comparable to actual convictions of the applicable statutes. The notion that any treason occurred is preposterous, and no one connected to the investigation has even hinted at it. Kushner’s top secret clearance was approved by the FBI, remember?

So you’re trying to suggest that some kind of agreement was discussed or evidenced by this meeting supporting accusations of collusion related to the election. And you’ve provided nothing to support this claim. “Jr did something really stupid and sleazy” isn’t “Jr coordinated collusion with Russian Intelligence to impact the election.”

3.)Manafort shared polling data with “possible” agent

This is just breaking. But what’s this supposed to mean?  This supports the idea that we have actual evidence of sharing information, demonstrating collusion?!?!?

Cause that has to be the takeaway if this means anything more than the flavor of broth I put on my dogs food tonight.

Polling data isn’t secretive, or protected. Maybe it’s a breach of contract if the data given was the algorithm for the actual poll they used. But do you think Podesta didn’t have a conversation with anyone who wasn’t a citizen?  I’m genuinely asking what is this supposed to show?

We don’t even know if the recepient was a Russian operative. So if that isn’t true, the mere appearance of inappropriate behavior is removed. I don’t know why polling data is unique or why that’s supposed to be revealing. I could create reasons why - the polling data gave demographic information the Russian troll farms could tailor their propaganda campaigns toward. If that happened, that’s a problem. But no one has suggested anything like that happened.

You have to explain why this matters - what occurred that is wrong and why. You haven’t done that. And I’ve yet to see an article that explains what we know occurred and what was unethical or illegal. If you have that article, please share.

4.)  this has been debunked. No other outlet ran it besides McClatchy. Not CNN, NBC, Fox. You pick it. Cohen stated it’s inaccurate and nothing in his plea related to this. Mueller wouldn’t miss this since it was falsely reported in the early days of the inauguration.

You don’t have any sources outside of McClatchy supporting this story. Feel free to link me the NYTimes or WaPo articles if I’m mistaken.

5.) Flynn lied to the FBI.

Yep. He plead guilty he lied about having conversations with a Russian ambassador. The call was recorded by the NSA. It was reviewed. Nothing relating to collusion was discussed. Nothing about the election.

No one levied the Logan Act.

If you think this proves or even suggests Flynn was a surrogate for Trump in colluding, you’re gravely mistaken. Please read Mueller’s recommendation for the judge on Sentencing. Cohen was the fixer and he’s going away for 3 years, Flynn isn’t going to serve a day. 



So not a single thing you linked proves remotely that any collusion took place. At no point is collusion even levied against the people in each point.

Yet you’ve created this whole other story, and use these events as the basis for some larger conspiracy.


And this is all I’m going to post on this. It’s been beat to death. No one is going to change their mind. I’m not interested in watching everyone repeat themselves.

If anyone wants to discuss something else, like the shutdown, the increasing amount of 2020 candidates, or anything else in greater depth than “fuck Trump” or “fuck Democrats”, let me know. Otherwise I’m bowing out of this topic.

mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

TBH Mitch I'm upset it's taken this long. These allegations are too serious & connections to close to the campaign to NOT disclose this before election day. I 'think' Comey was even asked if ppl in the Trump campaign were possibly being investigated to which Comey responded "I can't comment on that". This is too big to take slowly, and the election too massive. I know ppl might say he couldn't say anything yet but if there's connections to people in the campaign then admit it. They wouldn't have been saying (yet) Trump was involved. Just Flynn &/or Manafort among others.

That or speak to people in the GOP.  Cruz, Rubio, Ryan etc and inform them "You can't back this guy".  My guess is some were afraid of GOP voter backlash as Ryan had a close race from what I recall. Still, they should've met with people in the GOP party and laid out to them what they knew & what intel they had on them. Something like that probably happened as I remember McCain saying the Steele Dossier had floated in Republican circles for a few weeks before it leaked. He seemed aware.

I know the legal process can be excruciatingly slow and arduous but i have confidence that it’ll end in the right place. Nothing will change the result of the 2016 election.

I have always been convinced that there was a barrage of calculated propaganda and news sources that don’t exist anymore. Russians are geniuses at propaganda and i can pretty easily see them being behind a lot of that. Whether that’s considered collusion or not i think is hard to prove.

Handing over voter and polling info on the other seems like a much more direct example...how the hell did they now redact everything they were supposed to? Fucking idiots!

bigbri
 Rep: 325 

Re: US Politics Thread

bigbri wrote:

Trump’s not going to be impeached or indicted. I don’t think he was in on any collusion. Campaign officials, perhaps. Maybe Mueller will prove me wrong, but at this rate it won’t matter.

I care more about Trump’s policies that I disagree with, the fact he’s making America weaker on the world stage, cannot stop lying virtually every time he opens his mouth, and by most accounts is a garbage human being occupying the highest office in the world.

mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
bigbri wrote:

Trump’s not going to be impeached or indicted. I don’t think he was in on any collusion. Campaign officials, perhaps. Maybe Mueller will prove me wrong, but at this rate it won’t matter.

I guess I just find this hard to believe...but then again, why not? I really have no idea how involved Trump is in anything. I do know that he makes himself the center of everything. I have a hard time believing he wouldn't be involved with strategies to win. Especially with his requests in public that Russia intervene to hurt his opponent. It just seems like too much of a coincidence.

I do agree with you...he's an absolutely terrible human being. There isn't one redeeming quality about him.

slcpunk
 Rep: 155 

Re: US Politics Thread

slcpunk wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

lol, in the time it took for Flagg to write that response, Manaforts attorney's filed paperwork which mistakenly leaked retracted info stating Manafort gave voter data to Russian operative Kiliminik. The lines were supposed to be crossed out but weren't.

lol, you can't make this up. Russian connections just pop up like Whack-a-mole nowadays.


You beat me to it.

Trump's former campaign chairman lied to Mueller about providing polling data to a Russian GRU operative during the 2016 campaign.

Just one more of many coincidences!

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