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Re: US Politics Thread
PaSnow wrote:Randall Flagg wrote:Tilab has already started advocating for a $20 minimum wage. It’s a horrible idea because if you’re not worth $15 an hour now, your job is one of the first to be automated. Realistically, McDonalds could be entirely automated with existing technology. They’ve already replaced cashiers with iPads.
I’m not against raising the minimum wage, but minimum wage was never meant to provide a livable wage for adults with families. No one wants to tell people if you’re too poor to provide for yourself, you shouldn’t be having children. No one wants to acknowledge that admitting millions of economic migrants isn’t helping them when all low skilled jobs are automated over the next 10 years.
You can’t walk into any modern warehouse without seeing completely automated systems. Customer Service is being replaced with automation. The entire trucking and rail industry could be automated tomorrow if their union and lobbies didn’t have friends in congress.
Bernie Sanders can’t even afford to pay his staff $15 an hour. Yet somehow he’s a voice on implementing this nationwide?
The McDonalds argument always cracks me up. A company Wawa has been entirely automated for 10 years and they are thriving, and hiring. Staff just got better reassigned. Instead of some rando asking what you want on your hoagie, you type it into the kiosk. Obvi the sandwiches are made to order, and employees not robots make them, so they're better staffed. And people still pay cash or buy other things like chips & soda, so there's still cashiers. It's not become a vending machine.
It's kinda like a 7-11, only better. Stores probably average about 6-10 employees on a decent shift, larger stores closer to 20-30 at a time. No fear.
I agree having kids while 19 & in poverty is not going to help people, and probably need better PSA's about the downside to early/teen pregnancy as a whole.
Customer Service they've been talking about getting rid of since the early 2000s, problem is Americans want someone to yell at (believe me, I spent too many years in the industry. It fucked with my head). It'll never goto India and never be fully robotic. If anything, it's making it worse for CS reps because the easy calls "Hi I'd like to pay my bill" are now handled by automation, leaving only the angry nimrods who haven't paid their bill for 4 months yet are now shutoff are still getting thru to humans, leaving them to deal with the shit.
Most $15/hr plans are 5-7 year trajectories, not overnight. We let too much time lapse in the early 2000s without raising it until Obama finally raised it for the first time since I think the 90s.
WaWa is so overrated. But do they all make $15 an hour? WaWa is a convenience store. It’s the easiest thing in the world to automate. I’m aware state regulations require ID checks for booze and smokes, but we have biometric readers at customs to skip the line. I’d wager that tech could be leveraged to get people out of WaWa faster too.
Thats cause u live on the left side of the state, Sheetz country.
I dont think stores could go fully automated, ppl could just run out without paying. Myb 20 years from now but no time soon
I dont think they make 15 but my point was towards fears of McDs kiosks.
Re: US Politics Thread
mitchejw wrote:buzzsaw wrote:Which came first...the chicken or the egg?
At some point (not today), I will go back and look at your other responses because I remember being surprised that you put some though into them. This one? Not so much.
You can probably save your take then.
Trump has been an entitled douche for half a century.
He has. Most of that time he was a democrat though, so it was okay then. Everyone knew it during the election cycle, and he won anyway. Now some people would rather cry that he got elected by a bunch of racist, sexist white guys than admit that their candidate was just as flawed as he was (just in different ways). They're so busy trying to point the finger at someone else so they can sleep better at night knowing that they did this to themselves and if they aren't careful history is going to repeat itself. The more they vilify the right, the more they rally them to the polls. Sure, they may not talk as loud, but they will show up. The Democrats are so splintered by the squad and their extreme leftist views that will never fly in this country that they are sabotaging their own chances at beating what should be a very beatable candidate. When the crazy people don't get their way (again), they will stay home pouting.
This just in: most rich people are entitled douches. Most maybe not as publicly as the president, but does that somehow make it better?
It was never ok and i would never have voted for trump if he ran as a Democrat.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
Randall Flagg wrote:PaSnow wrote:The McDonalds argument always cracks me up. A company Wawa has been entirely automated for 10 years and they are thriving, and hiring. Staff just got better reassigned. Instead of some rando asking what you want on your hoagie, you type it into the kiosk. Obvi the sandwiches are made to order, and employees not robots make them, so they're better staffed. And people still pay cash or buy other things like chips & soda, so there's still cashiers. It's not become a vending machine.
It's kinda like a 7-11, only better. Stores probably average about 6-10 employees on a decent shift, larger stores closer to 20-30 at a time. No fear.
I agree having kids while 19 & in poverty is not going to help people, and probably need better PSA's about the downside to early/teen pregnancy as a whole.
Customer Service they've been talking about getting rid of since the early 2000s, problem is Americans want someone to yell at (believe me, I spent too many years in the industry. It fucked with my head). It'll never goto India and never be fully robotic. If anything, it's making it worse for CS reps because the easy calls "Hi I'd like to pay my bill" are now handled by automation, leaving only the angry nimrods who haven't paid their bill for 4 months yet are now shutoff are still getting thru to humans, leaving them to deal with the shit.
Most $15/hr plans are 5-7 year trajectories, not overnight. We let too much time lapse in the early 2000s without raising it until Obama finally raised it for the first time since I think the 90s.
WaWa is so overrated. But do they all make $15 an hour? WaWa is a convenience store. It’s the easiest thing in the world to automate. I’m aware state regulations require ID checks for booze and smokes, but we have biometric readers at customs to skip the line. I’d wager that tech could be leveraged to get people out of WaWa faster too.
Thats cause u live on the left side of the state, Sheetz country.
I dont think stores could go fully automated, ppl could just run out without paying. Myb 20 years from now but no time soon
I dont think they make 15 but my point was towards fears of McDs kiosks.
I don’t care for Sheetz, but no one gets excited about going to Sheetz. When I lived in Philly, it was an event for people. I’ve never gone to Sheetz for lunch. I went to WaWa several times.
No one is worried about kiosks. It’s what the kiosks represent. The fries, the drinks, even the burgers. You can youtube automated production lines operating right now in China. And that’s without significant R&D. McDonalds puts $100 million into creating automated equipment, and McDonalds and all similarity skilled labor goes away. McDonalds would be a janitor and manager who handles complaints and calls for repairs.
Extend that timeline long enough, and that’s every job. Lawyers, doctors, etc. I’m in the healthcare business now with a major investor in medical tech. IBM’s Watson already diagnoses better than any human, and its only getting better, and can easily be replicated in every corner store.
An artificial minimum wage as high as $15 encourages if not forces low skill employers to automate. Poor people don’t go quietly into the night, and there’s going to be a lot more of them if safeguards against automation don’t happen. An ever exploding population doesn’t help this.
Re: US Politics Thread
Thats when UBI becomes a thing. Essentially $10k-$20K a year for food, housing etc via tax to the companies who automate. Those who work will pay for luxuries like cars & travel. Not saying its ideal, I heard it said tho, and I believe in about 20 years or so we may be there.
Re: US Politics Thread
Tax and regulation are coming with AI/automation/robotics. Yang is the only one talking about it, which is why Tucker Carlson has him on his show all the time. Honestly, that's the only place I've heard Yang on a consistent basis. Bill Gates has said AI regulation/taxation's inevitable, because it'll be an economic catastrophe.
Re: US Politics Thread
Tax and regulation are coming with AI/automation/robotics. Yang is the only one talking about it, which is why Tucker Carlson has him on his show all the time. Honestly, that's the only place I've heard Yang on a consistent basis. Bill Gates has said AI regulation/taxation's inevitable, because it'll be an economic catastrophe.
Being on Tucker’s show doesn’t validate anything
Re: US Politics Thread
Rather than reply to one of mitch's posts since they have more or less played out, I want to hear how people that support the minimum wage increase to $15 think it's going to play out.
Will the people making the new minimum wage be able to live comfortably on $15/hr?
What will happen to the people currently making $15/hr doing more skilled jobs?
I have more questions, but lets start with what should be the simple ones. I am not an economist, but what the common sense take tells me is this will result in people making $15/hr living the same as people currently making minimum wage; people making more will effectively have less as they will not get raises to keep the pay gap where it is based on the skill required for their roles. Essentially what this will do (in my opinion) is keep the poor poor and bring the middle class closer to the poor. I'd love to be wrong. I'd love to hear how this will somehow make the poor become middle class with the change, but I have yet to hear one credible person say that.
By credible, I don't mean a politician (just for clarity's sake)...
So nothing? These questions aren't about McDonald's or automation or how quickly they kick in...they are answers that should be easy to answer if you are in support of the increase unless you just support it because you'll follow whatever the Democrats tell you to do without having any understanding of the ramifications of doing so. Two questions. Why isn't anyone answering them?
Re: US Politics Thread
[ These questions aren't about McDonald's or automation or how quickly they kick in...
I goto McDs occasionally for breakfast. They've had a kiosk for at least a year or two. There's still cashiers tho, for some reason it doesn't accept cash, only CC (Although thats probably due to the cash machine/change breaking or needing refill etc too often, or theft), and there's still staff cooking, drive thru etc.
Its the same thing as self checkout in Supermarket, people cried the end of the world & that goes back to maybe even the 90s, but generally around 2000/early 2000s when it became commonplace.
- Randall Flagg
- Rep: 139
Re: US Politics Thread
There’s not an objective answer to your questions. Some people can live on $8 an hour today. Others can’t live on $30.
But as I posted earlier, the goal post is already being moved. The squad is now squaking for $20 an hour. Much of the argument for a higher minimum wage is based on a utopian dream of equality. Somehow equality under the law has been confused with equality in life experience. Neither are entirely possible, but the former can almost be achieved. But those parroting “no one is above the law” turn a blind eye to millions of illegals or a democratic candidate that objectively obstructs justice by destroying evidence under subpoena.
So the answer to your first question is people can live on a wage less than $15 an hour, they just won’t have the standard of living they want on that wage.
With regard to the second question, it’s more hypothetical and conjecture than the first. If people are capable of earning more, they generally do. I don’t know anyone who wants to do the same job for less.
Either the market will adjust for those with a skill, or those with a skill will take the jobs of the unskilled, displacing them further. I’m inclined to think it’s the latter, but your guess is as good as mine. I love Friedman, but even he couldn’t predict the future.
Re: US Politics Thread
If impeachment proceedings do not occur under Trump the precedent set will be that there is virtually no standard and impeachment proceedings should never occur again in this country.
The republicans proceeded with impeachment and had far less.
I’m so tired of the spineless democrats always taking the high road and losing.
