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Randall Flagg
 Rep: 114 

Re: US Politics Thread

PaSnow wrote:

Did u stop posting here for a while, or were u overseas?  Didnt hear from you from 2010-2015ish. Tho alot of us were on here much less.


yea, for a few years, after the place went dead after CD and people just argued about which guitar player would have been a better best friend.  I lurked a few times a year, but yea.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 114 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:

I thought I saw on NBC that Russia was helping Bernie too...did I see that right?

That's exactly what I mean.  A headline comes out, and people just run with it, and don't bother to fact check.  It benefits the Russians for Americans to be accusing their political operatives of being Russian plants or stooges.   The Democratic establishment created an entire false narrative about Trump being Putin's cronie.  They're not that imaginative, so they're accusing Sanders of the same thing.  Not realizing that by pushing the narrative that our democracy is compromised, they're the ones doing Russia's bidding.

mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

I thought I saw on NBC that Russia was helping Bernie too...did I see that right?

That's exactly what I mean.  A headline comes out, and people just run with it, and don't bother to fact check.  It benefits the Russians for Americans to be accusing their political operatives of being Russian plants or stooges.   The Democratic establishment created an entire false narrative about Trump being Putin's cronie.  They're not that imaginative, so they're accusing Sanders of the same thing.  Not realizing that by pushing the narrative that our democracy is compromised, they're the ones doing Russia's bidding.

I don’t see how any of this benefits Russia (the Bernie aspect) and the people informing Bernies campaign of this aren’t whack job conspiracy theorists.

I want to understand something. Do you believe that Trump has been cultivating a business relationship with with people very high up in Russian government since the 1980s? Do you not believe that Trump received extra support from the Russian government to obtain huge loans after he went bankrupt in the 1990s? Do you not believe that Trump was involved in money laundering at his casinos? Do you not believe that Trump loves autocrats? Do you not believe that Trump and Putin have a long standing relationship that goes back to way before politics?

I grant you that you still need to make a bit of a leap to say he’s some sort of Russian operative but that leap is far easier to make with Trump than it is with Bernie.

I just want to be clear about what it is you’re saying about Trump and Russia. Surely you cannot be saying that there is absolutely nothing to that relationship.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 426 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:

I think you're looking at it way too simplistically. Russia benefits from the infighting that both Trump and Bernie would create in the US. They don't want Trump because they get special deals or inside information; they want him because of exactly what has happened since before he took office.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 114 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:

I think you're looking at it way too simplistically. Russia benefits from the infighting that both Trump and Bernie would create in the US. They don't want Trump because they get special deals or inside information; they want him because of exactly what has happened since before he took office.


Exactly.  People don't realize how damaging it is to parrot that our country is compromised and for every aspect of our government to be infighting.  Russian collusion is a lie, and Russia's involvement in our elections, while a problem, is largely unstoppable and meaningless at this junction.  $100k on memes isn't going to swing the election, as Bloomberg is soon going to prove.  Comey, and Hillary's lack of effort in PA, MI and WI are what cost her in 2016, not Russia.  If Sanders has the plurality of delegates and isn't the nominee, it won't be because of Russia, but the DNC.

PaSnow
 Rep: 200 

Re: US Politics Thread

PaSnow wrote:

Dont you think Russians donated to Sanders campaign?

I think you can be anonymous if its under like 500 or 1000 dollars. Pretty easy for them to submit hundreds of 500 follar donations thru the web.. Personally I think its how Sanders started off with a bang in 2016 when Hillary was supposed to be pretty much uncontested. Ill concede HRCs campaign wasnt well run, in my mind partially due to Huma Aberdeen, word was they didnt want data or suggestions from Obamas camp/David Axelrod.

mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

I think you're looking at it way too simplistically. Russia benefits from the infighting that both Trump and Bernie would create in the US. They don't want Trump because they get special deals or inside information; they want him because of exactly what has happened since before he took office.

I’m sorry i disagree...i think our foreign policy has been affected in a way that benefits Russia.

If Trump didn’t want anything about these allegations to persist, he shouldn’t have behaved the way he did over the past 3 years.

Trump is loyal to you so long as you have something to offer him. It really isn’t that hard to believe that here and there....he has his own interests at heart and that means leveraging US policy to garner personal favor....with anyone.

Please don’t forget that his whole movement started by repeatedly questioning for years that Obama was wasnt a US citizen. The disdain for The will of people was Planted by him. By any means necessary.

If you’re suggesting that the way to beat the Russians is to cooperate with Trump....to normalize this man and all that he started....

Not gonna happen

misterID
 Rep: 457 

Re: US Politics Thread

misterID wrote:

Trump isn't loyal to anyone, he loves his ass being kissed. Russia hasn't gotten anything out of us. They just haven't. Now they're helping Bernie, something he kept silent about until the Washington Post leaked it.... Which his followers are outright calling a conspiracy, and he's not pushing back on that allegation.

Bernie has had a LONG history of praising dictators, not because they kiss his ass but because they share the same basic ideology. Bernie hasn't praised Russia, he's praised the Soviet Union. Even spent his honeymoon there. Trump would love a Trump Tower Moscow. Bernie is in it for the ideology, not the money. That's scarier, imo.

mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
misterID wrote:

Trump isn't loyal to anyone, he loves his ass being kissed. Russia hasn't gotten anything out of us. They just haven't. Now they're helping Bernie, something he kept silent about until the Washington Post leaked it.... Which his followers are outright calling a conspiracy, and he's not pushing back on that allegation.

Bernie has had a LONG history of praising dictators, not because they kiss his ass but because they share the same basic ideology. Bernie hasn't praised Russia, he's praised the Soviet Union. Even spent his honeymoon there. Trump would love a Trump Tower Moscow. Bernie is in it for the ideology, not the money. That's scarier, imo.

You seek to give Trump a pass but not Bernie.

And you make quite the allegation that Bernie loves dictators.

You also seem to take the stance that Russia has no significant influence over US  elections but are now bothered by the fact that they are now allegedly doing so on Bernies behalf.

I’m sorry to tell you ID that none of these ‘centrists’ are garnering influence. Trump is not a centrist despite your belief. He’s just random. There is no plan. There is no thinking beyond today. It seems you’ll be voting for Trump based on your most recent posts.

PaSnow
 Rep: 200 

Re: US Politics Thread

PaSnow wrote:
misterID wrote:

Even spent his honeymoon there. Trump would love a Trump Tower Moscow.

Totally going to happen. There'll be a Trump Moscow, Ukraine, Saudi, Dubai & he'd free up North Korea & have the first & only international hotel in NK to get business travelers seeking to do work with them.

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