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buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:
misterID wrote:

Okay, then you have nothing to complain about. Have a nice day.

Back here in reality, we know this is headed to slaughtering the social safety net, and that's not going to fly.

Right, so why are you worried about it?

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:

I don't get why you guys keep worrying about things that haven't happened yet.  Some entitlements should go away, sor no problems with that, but you guys are already panicking about stuff that's not going to happen.  If they make significant cuts to medicare or SS, they are shooting themselves in the foot.  It's not going to happen.   

Remember how the game is played. Shoot for the moon so you get what you really want when you negotiate it down.

misterID
 Rep: 469 

Re: US Politics Thread

misterID wrote:

Should I worry about a hurricane after it hits my home?

What negotiation? How are they going to pay for it? They already said slashing entitlements is the only way.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 130 

Re: US Politics Thread

I've been abstaining from the discussion because tax law is something I am very ignorant on, but I was listening to McConnell's press briefing yesterday and his comment was if we grow the economy by .25% under this tax law, the "deficit" it's creating is wiped out.  I think that is a fair comment if for no other reason than lowering the corporate tax rate to 21% is going to prevent a lot of American companies from using European countries with low tax rates to bypass our corporate tax rate.  Until I was let go in September to outsourcing, I'd been working at KraftHeinz for the past 2.5 years (that's why I was always in Chicago, their dual headquarters is in AON on the 72-76 floors) and we had 1 employee in Belgium to use the country as a tax haven.  This will prevent some of that, which will offset the loss of tax revenue.  Not to mention less deductions prevents companies like Apple from paying an effective 1% tax rate. 

And on the subject of KraftHeinz, they abuse the H1B visa system.  Every senior executive is Brazilian.  Every. Single. One.  They bring them to the US along with a bunch of other director+ levels.  Don't even interview Americans, just bring in another connected Brazilian.  This is another part of the immigration debate that's overlooked because the focus is on illegal mexican migrants.  Americans are losing good paying jobs because we allow a foreign investment company (3G is Brazilian and bought Heinz in 2013 before buying Kraft in 2015) to come in, and then hire all of their people.  When I traveled to indonesia, something like 50% of the workforce had to be Indonesian to include senior executives. 

Now I was fine (and didn't take a dime of unemployment) because I have a good skillset and had a job offer before my termination date was over and just took the month of October to fuck off (no weed, unfortunately, it's still frowned upon to have fun on the weekends, but it's okay to be on zoloft, adderall and whatever over-prescribed drug people are convinced they need in order to not feel alive).  But this is the kind of shit we should be building into the tax law and I hope is addressed as congress tackles immigration after the new year.

I honestly believe the left isn't interested in making America a competitive country.  They want to appeal to the ignorant masses who are too simple to find a job that pays them 35k a year and remind them to live in their means.  How can you bitch about the poor lacking quality paying jobs and quality healthcare, while at the same time arguing 12 million illegals who compete for those very jobs should be given a free pass.

I honestly don't understand why putting the needs of American citizens first is taboo.  How much self hate have we built into generation X and beyond that people should feel guilty that our grandfathers and great grandfathers sacrificed their blood and sweat to make America the greatest country on earth.  And why should we feel guilty about protecting the culture and work ethic that built this country.

I really don't care that the tax plan is unpopular right now.  Most Americans think they'll pay more in taxes, despite that being objectively false.  So excuse me if I don't give much weight to public opinion on anything that requires 5 minutes of thought to understand.  40% of Americans want Trump impeached, but if you ask them why, they'll stutter and embarrass themselves tripping over their feet to make an intelligent answer.  Something like 20% of the country thought Obama was a Muslim and born in Kenya.  And it doesn't help that we had/have leaders of both major political parties propagating either myth. 

I do think we should police up entitlements.  Able bodied people should not be paid to sit at home.  There's plenty of streets and parks that need litter picked up.  Plenty of highways that need weeds pulled from the side.  People are generally ok with helping those in need, but when you see people abusing the system and essentially existing as a parasite, those of us who work 40+ hours a week, have every right to call bullshit.  I don't know what reforms the GOP will make, and I believe they're going to have a hell of a lot more difficulty attacking benefits compared to taxes.  But what the GOP did with taxes is really no different than what the Dems did with the ACA.  They knew once they expanded medicaid, it'd be impossible or suicide to revoke it.  It's going to be the same thing with taxes.  If the Democrats come in and raise taxes, they're going to be voted out of office in the next election.  Doing this forces both sides to have a discussion on the growing disparity in entitlements versus funding.  And it's only going to get worse as more jobs are automated or outsourced.  We should be focused on Americans, not the sob stories of people 15k miles away who have nothing to offer this country and will stick their hands out the moment they touch ground.

mitchejw
 Rep: 128 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

I've been abstaining from the discussion because tax law is something I am very ignorant on, but I was listening to McConnell's press briefing yesterday and his comment was if we grow the economy


I honestly believe the left isn't interested in making America a competitive country. 

.

Putting America first doesn’t necessarily mean putting everyone in America first.  There some big winners and some losers in this new deal.

If the tax cut was a little bit more equal in its treatment of everyone and their supposed tax cut then I can get much more on board with this but I don’t see that happening. It is not objectively true that everyone is going to receive some form of a cut. There are some tax brackets that went up a ticker two.

Now here’s the part where he says  “the standard deduction is doubled right? And then I’ll come back and say well then the whole thing is a fucking wash then isn’t it?

There are many different ways to put America first. This put some Americans first not everyone.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 130 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

I've been abstaining from the discussion because tax law is something I am very ignorant on, but I was listening to McConnell's press briefing yesterday and his comment was if we grow the economy


I honestly believe the left isn't interested in making America a competitive country. 

.

Putting America first doesn’t necessarily mean putting everyone in America first.  There some big winners and some losers in this new deal.

If the tax cut was a little bit more equal in its treatment of everyone and their supposed tax cut then I can get much more on board with this but I don’t see that happening. It is not objectively true that everyone is going to receive some form of a cut. There are some tax brackets that went up a ticker two.

Now here’s the part where he says  “the standard deduction is doubled right? And then I’ll come back and say well then the whole thing is a fucking wash then isn’t it?

There are many different ways to put America first. This put some Americans first not everyone.


The majority of Americans are going to pay less in taxes.  So when a majority think that they're going to pay more, that's a sign of ignorance and misinformation.  I've yet to see an article claiming more Americans will pay more, specifically those making less than 50k.  If an article exists making the claim, I'd love to see it.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:
misterID wrote:

Should I worry about a hurricane after it hits my home?

What negotiation? How are they going to pay for it? They already said slashing entitlements is the only way.

When there's a hurricane predicted by a meteorologist to hit your house, sure.  Right now you're sitting around with no meteorology knowledge or experience predicting a hurricane hitting your house though, and that's idiotic.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

I've been abstaining from the discussion because tax law is something I am very ignorant on, but I was listening to McConnell's press briefing yesterday and his comment was if we grow the economy


I honestly believe the left isn't interested in making America a competitive country. 

.

Putting America first doesn’t necessarily mean putting everyone in America first.  There some big winners and some losers in this new deal.

If the tax cut was a little bit more equal in its treatment of everyone and their supposed tax cut then I can get much more on board with this but I don’t see that happening. It is not objectively true that everyone is going to receive some form of a cut. There are some tax brackets that went up a ticker two.

Now here’s the part where he says  “the standard deduction is doubled right? And then I’ll come back and say well then the whole thing is a fucking wash then isn’t it?

There are many different ways to put America first. This put some Americans first not everyone.

There are people getting paid just to exist in this country.  They contribute absolutely nothing to society.  They've been put first long enough.  It's time for that to end.  Helping those that legitimately need the help is wonderful.  The rest of them can earn it like the rest of us or charity can pick up the slack of supporting them.  The gov't needs to get out of that business.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 423 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:

What entitlements are you guys worried about?  Social Security?  Medicare?  What exactly do you guys have your panties in a bunch over?  Why do you really think there's going to be enough support from the public to get rid of those things?  If they cut those things, they are all out of office in a heartbeat.  Use your heads for something other than a hat rack.  However...

Some sort of reform is needed.  It should happen.  No more free rides for the lazy.  The problem is going to be how to establish who is lazy and who genuinely needs the help.  I don't have an easy answer for that.  Full drug testing isn't cost effective, though some sort of random testing (just the threat of it) would be okay in my book.  There's a solution somewhere, but someone smarter than I am will have to figure it out.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 130 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:

What entitlements are you guys worried about?  Social Security?  Medicare?  What exactly do you guys have your panties in a bunch over?  Why do you really think there's going to be enough support from the public to get rid of those things?  If they cut those things, they are all out of office in a heartbeat.  Use your heads for something other than a hat rack.  However...

Some sort of reform is needed.  It should happen.  No more free rides for the lazy.  The problem is going to be how to establish who is lazy and who genuinely needs the help.  I don't have an easy answer for that.  Full drug testing isn't cost effective, though some sort of random testing (just the threat of it) would be okay in my book.  There's a solution somewhere, but someone smarter than I am will have to figure it out.


My only problem with drug testing is how it impacts children.  Mommy smokes a joint (not even considering the states where it's medically or recreationally legal), fails her test, and is denied assistance.  What about her kids?  We have a huge opioid crisis in this country and while I have little sympathy for those who go down this dark path (and my own brother has done so), letting people die in the streets isn't a real answer.  People with nothing to lose tend to act on it. 

That's why to your point, the left pretending Republicans are going to end entitlements and millions will be lined up at soup kitchens is hogwash.  It's not going to happen.  But if we could bring some sanity to how we dole out money and what strings are attached to it, I'm all about having that discussion.

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