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bigbri
 Rep: 332 

Re: US Politics Thread

bigbri wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

So you think he's the only president to ever lie?  Everyone knew he was a liar.  Every politician is a liar, he just blasts on social media more than anyone else.  If you believe what politicians tell you, that's on you.

You do a good job of putting words in people's mouths and going off topic. This is why its pointless in this thread.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 432 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:

I'm trying to figure out your point, but you're not making one.  The only point seems to be you hate Trump even though he's just like every other politician to some degree. When I point out he's like every other politician you get bothered by what I said.  You hate Trump because you disagree with his policies and you think he's an arrogant prick.  Just say it.

mitchejw
 Rep: 111 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

So you were blasting Obama when he made illegal executive orders?  I mean you can't be okay with one dictatorship and get pissed when the next one comes along and takes it to the next level.  That's how these things go...one side pushes the envelope and the next side pushes it further.

Here's why I was frustrated with all of that...

Everyone knew something clearly needed to be done. But the Republican refused to do ANYTHING and they controlled congress. So they won on two sides...Obama makes executive orders that they can criticize him for OR Obama does nothing and they can criticize him for doing nothing.

mitchejw
 Rep: 111 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

I'm trying to figure out your point, but you're not making one.  The only point seems to be you hate Trump even though he's just like every other politician to some degree. When I point out he's like every other politician you get bothered by what I said.  You hate Trump because you disagree with his policies and you think he's an arrogant prick.  Just say it.

Trump is in a league of his own with his lying....and provoking...and he enjoys embarrasing people so people do it back to him.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 119 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

So you were blasting Obama when he made illegal executive orders?  I mean you can't be okay with one dictatorship and get pissed when the next one comes along and takes it to the next level.  That's how these things go...one side pushes the envelope and the next side pushes it further.

Here's why I was frustrated with all of that...

Everyone knew something clearly needed to be done. But the Republican refused to do ANYTHING and they controlled congress. So they won on two sides...Obama makes executive orders that they can criticize him for OR Obama does nothing and they can criticize him for doing nothing.


Or, here me out on this. Democrats support legislation that actually benefits Americans and protects our borders. An open border isn’t a policy. Allowing every person who snuck across, wasn’t immediately captured, and never raped or murdered, to stay isn’t a policy either.

If you don’t do anything to prevent millions more from illegally coming, all you’re doing (as we’ve already done twice) is tell people once you’ve made it over, just wait 30 years and we’ll give you amnesty. So when Democrats are willing to be adults and consider real border security and things like e-verify, then we can give those who’ve led productive lives the amnesty they deserve.

Borders are real and national security is a real obligation the President has. Obama illegally created DACA, after previously acknowledging he lacked the legal authority to do so. There’s no overreach you can point to with Trump that is remotely similar. The President can temporarily halt specific non-citizens from entering the country. He can’t grant legal status to anyone congress hasn’t authorized him to do so.

Yes, Trump is a narcissist of epic proportions. But his election is just as legitimate as Obama’s. If you don’t see the irony in people who remained absolutely silent, if not celebratory when Obama enacted DACA, all of a sudden cry executive overreach when Trump removes it, we're not having a genuine discussion. If you don’t see the irony in the people who remained silent, if not celebratory when Clinton ignored a subpoena and deleted her emails, wiped her server, and LIED about doing so, now outraged at the mere accusation Trump obstructed Justice, we’re not having a genuine conversation.

Do I think all candidates and events are equal, no I do not. But if you were silent when Clinton and Obama abused their positions, you lack any real credibility when you’re all of a sudden alarmed that Trump fired a guy he didn’t like or pisses on our shoes and tells us it’s raining with a straight face. Consistency.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 119 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

I'm trying to figure out your point, but you're not making one.  The only point seems to be you hate Trump even though he's just like every other politician to some degree. When I point out he's like every other politician you get bothered by what I said.  You hate Trump because you disagree with his policies and you think he's an arrogant prick.  Just say it.

Trump is in a league of his own with his lying....and provoking...and he enjoys embarrasing people so people do it back to him.

Agreed.  So work with your party to ensure there’s a legitimate candidate to beat him in 2020. Bernie isn’t going to cut it.

bigbri
 Rep: 332 

Re: US Politics Thread

bigbri wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

I'm trying to figure out your point, but you're not making one.  The only point seems to be you hate Trump even though he's just like every other politician to some degree. When I point out he's like every other politician you get bothered by what I said.  You hate Trump because you disagree with his policies and you think he's an arrogant prick.  Just say it.

He's not just like every other politician. If we can't even agree on that, there's no point in engaging you. You just like to poke and prod and belittle and thump your chest.

Is it any secret I hate Trump and think he's an arrogant prick (along with most of country)? Wow, you really dug deep there and revealed a truth I was trying to hide. Thanks, Dr. Phil.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 432 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:
bigbri wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

I'm trying to figure out your point, but you're not making one.  The only point seems to be you hate Trump even though he's just like every other politician to some degree. When I point out he's like every other politician you get bothered by what I said.  You hate Trump because you disagree with his policies and you think he's an arrogant prick.  Just say it.

He's not just like every other politician. If we can't even agree on that, there's no point in engaging you. You just like to poke and prod and belittle and thump your chest.

Is it any secret I hate Trump and think he's an arrogant prick (along with most of country)? Wow, you really dug deep there and revealed a truth I was trying to hide. Thanks, Dr. Phil.

He's not just like them.  That's why he got elected.  But he's more similar than any of you ever seem to want to admit.  You act like he's the devil and every other president has been a saint.  You complain about stuff he does, yet there's NOTHING he's done that I've seen that hasn't been done on some level before.  Bill Clinton is by far my favorite Democratic president since I've been alive, but the dude was every bit as creepy as Trump in a time when it was much easier to get away with it.  Billy would have been in a lot of trouble in a social media era.

So the only possible complaint you can have is that he does "more" things than others.  So?  If it was all okay when someone else did it, it's okay now.  As I said earlier, the amount of bad is irrelevant.  Bad is bad.  Start picking away at the policies and get away from the person.  I don't know that I've ever seen people have so much hatred for a person they don't even know just because other people tell them they should hate him.

mitchejw
 Rep: 111 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
buzzsaw wrote:

So you were blasting Obama when he made illegal executive orders?  I mean you can't be okay with one dictatorship and get pissed when the next one comes along and takes it to the next level.  That's how these things go...one side pushes the envelope and the next side pushes it further.

Here's why I was frustrated with all of that...

Everyone knew something clearly needed to be done. But the Republican refused to do ANYTHING and they controlled congress. So they won on two sides...Obama makes executive orders that they can criticize him for OR Obama does nothing and they can criticize him for doing nothing.


Or, here me out on this. Democrats support legislation that actually benefits Americans and protects our borders. An open border isn’t a policy. Allowing every person who snuck across, wasn’t immediately captured, and never raped or murdered, to stay isn’t a policy either.

If you don’t do anything to prevent millions more from illegally coming, all you’re doing (as we’ve already done twice) is tell people once you’ve made it over, just wait 30 years and we’ll give you amnesty. So when Democrats are willing to be adults and consider real border security and things like e-verify, then we can give those who’ve led productive lives the amnesty they deserve.

Borders are real and national security is a real obligation the President has. Obama illegally created DACA, after previously acknowledging he lacked the legal authority to do so. There’s no overreach you can point to with Trump that is remotely similar. The President can temporarily halt specific non-citizens from entering the country. He can’t grant legal status to anyone congress hasn’t authorized him to do so.

Yes, Trump is a narcissist of epic proportions. But his election is just as legitimate as Obama’s. If you don’t see the irony in people who remained absolutely silent, if not celebratory when Obama enacted DACA, all of a sudden cry executive overreach when Trump removes it, we're not having a genuine discussion. If you don’t see the irony in the people who remained silent, if not celebratory when Clinton ignored a subpoena and deleted her emails, wiped her server, and LIED about doing so, now outraged at the mere accusation Trump obstructed Justice, we’re not having a genuine conversation.

Do I think all candidates and events are equal, no I do not. But if you were silent when Clinton and Obama abused their positions, you lack any real credibility when you’re all of a sudden alarmed that Trump fired a guy he didn’t like or pisses on our shoes and tells us it’s raining with a straight face. Consistency.

Let’s just assume everything you say is exactly correct...then the same people who were outraged over Clinton and Obama elected an even worse version of them both....then wouldn’t they also lack any credibility making the whole damn thing a farce?

That street goes both ways.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 119 

Re: US Politics Thread

mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
mitchejw wrote:

Here's why I was frustrated with all of that...

Everyone knew something clearly needed to be done. But the Republican refused to do ANYTHING and they controlled congress. So they won on two sides...Obama makes executive orders that they can criticize him for OR Obama does nothing and they can criticize him for doing nothing.


Or, here me out on this. Democrats support legislation that actually benefits Americans and protects our borders. An open border isn’t a policy. Allowing every person who snuck across, wasn’t immediately captured, and never raped or murdered, to stay isn’t a policy either.

If you don’t do anything to prevent millions more from illegally coming, all you’re doing (as we’ve already done twice) is tell people once you’ve made it over, just wait 30 years and we’ll give you amnesty. So when Democrats are willing to be adults and consider real border security and things like e-verify, then we can give those who’ve led productive lives the amnesty they deserve.

Borders are real and national security is a real obligation the President has. Obama illegally created DACA, after previously acknowledging he lacked the legal authority to do so. There’s no overreach you can point to with Trump that is remotely similar. The President can temporarily halt specific non-citizens from entering the country. He can’t grant legal status to anyone congress hasn’t authorized him to do so.

Yes, Trump is a narcissist of epic proportions. But his election is just as legitimate as Obama’s. If you don’t see the irony in people who remained absolutely silent, if not celebratory when Obama enacted DACA, all of a sudden cry executive overreach when Trump removes it, we're not having a genuine discussion. If you don’t see the irony in the people who remained silent, if not celebratory when Clinton ignored a subpoena and deleted her emails, wiped her server, and LIED about doing so, now outraged at the mere accusation Trump obstructed Justice, we’re not having a genuine conversation.

Do I think all candidates and events are equal, no I do not. But if you were silent when Clinton and Obama abused their positions, you lack any real credibility when you’re all of a sudden alarmed that Trump fired a guy he didn’t like or pisses on our shoes and tells us it’s raining with a straight face. Consistency.

Let’s just assume everything you say is exactly correct...then the same people who were outraged over Clinton and Obama elected an even worse version of them both....then wouldn’t they also lack any credibility making the whole damn thing a farce?

That street goes both ways.

Yea, they're both hypocrites.  Are you expecting me to defend the intelligence of the average voter?  They cling to an idea and find any information to corroborate it.  It doesn't matter how absurd, anything remotely possible is accepted.  Bush planned 9/11, Obama was a Kenyan Muslim drafted by George Soros to usurp the country, Hillary personally killed 5 marines in Benghazi and deleted the email evidence to prove it while embezzling billions from The Clinton Foundation, Trump worked with Putin to steal the election because Putin has a video of Trump being pissed on by Russian prostitutes and to build hotels.  It keeps getting more and more absurd, and millions are eager to believe the next absurdity.  You'll also notice that the amount of people who believe the conspiracies increases as the accusations increased in absurdity.  Believing 9/11 was an inside job was the real fringe when it first started.  A lot more people bought into the birther bullshit than bought into 9/11.  I'd argue more people believe Trump personally and knowingly worked with Russia to win than bought into the Benghazi bullshit. 

These aren't groups of people who are swayed by a lot of thought and evidence.  So for them to lack any logical consistency in their beliefs isn't surprising or shocking.  That's my whole point.  There is a segment of the population who isn't interested in having an intelligent discussion on the topic of any president in recent memory.  We can debate on size and the exact cutoff, but we all agree it's there.  So let's make an active effort to be consistent.  If it was right then, it is right now.  If it's wrong now, it was wrong then. 

Then let's move forward and focus on the reality Donald Trump will be our president until at least January 2021 unless actual, irrefutable, direct evidence of him "cheating" during the election by intentionally working with Russia is provided.  Even if Mueller does the incredibly destructive act of suggesting Trump could be found guilty of obstruction for firing Comey, Trump will remain in office until the end of his term.  Democratic leadership is hesitant to even mention impeachment.  It's Waters and Green and a bunch of left wing bloggers.  Impeaching Trump, even if the DNC could unite in a 2019 assumed majority to bring articles, I bet there'd be infighting on actually voting for impeachment.  Because it's bullshit, and Democrats want the ability to fire a "Comey" if they win the next time a "Comey" fucks them the week before an election.  And you'd never get the 67 votes through the Senate.  It's a waste of god damn time, and everyone in power realizes how polarized the population is.  We don't need that.

So focus on policy, and let Trump sign whatever bill Congress can work out.  He just wants a win, so give it to him and let a Democratic House and a Republican Senate draft decent legislation to get Trump to sign.  Then vote him out in 2020.  But stay consistent, so we don't polarize to the extremes in unintelligent shouting matches.

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