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Re: Tracks on the album better than the Rough Mixes

AtariLegend wrote:

Based on Lofton's thread and some comments on the mixes, I got to thinking about some album tracks that I actually think sounded better than the Rough Mixes (a controversial view, I know).

The album is a mess in my opinion for the record (that should have released in 2000), in terms of pacing/length and too many guitars drowning out Tommy's bass with dubious song selections.

- The title track shouldn't have had the intro and the extra guitars that damages the spirit of it.

- Shackler's is a very radio unfriendly track, with an annoying chorus (the second verse of which goes on too long). I think it dramatically influences people's takeaway and I honestly can't listen the album from start to finish because of it.

- Street of Dreams like the title track, seems a little soulless to an extent compared to its wonderful rough mix (disc 1) counterpart.

- Catcher in the Rye is a musical abomination that should not have happened and the opposite of it's Bryan May version. The least defensible track on the album as far I'm concerned.

- Scraped I actually like, but it's really more of an album filler track on an album that was too long. It's like Shotgun Blues imo, except I don't listen to UYI II and think it's too long.

- Ryiad and the Bedouins I have mixed feelings about (the intro that got them into legal difficulties was pointless) and Tommy's base is once again MIA.

However, after I've thrown half the album under the bus, this is the part people might disagree with. I think all the tracks below sound great, even with everything thrown into them:


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PaSnow
 Rep: 203 

Re: Tracks on the album better than the Rough Mixes

PaSnow wrote:

It's a fair post & I'll agree with it.  I don't get too into the demos vs album stuff much, I dunno, some of the songs themselves are just, mehh. I felt IRS & TWAT needed to be worked on to be more 'radio friendly' 'pop', not saying they would be radio songs, but to have achieved a more cohesive album. Those could've used tinkering (ex. TWAT vocals, bridge/chorus). And, I know it was a main feature to the song, but I'd have preferred Madagascar without the samples. It was done for UYI, and just feels like a throwback. Esp when half of it was Cool Hand Luke again. Its 90 seconds that fills up basically the last 2 1/2 minutes.

mitchejw
 Rep: 115 

Re: Tracks on the album better than the Rough Mixes

mitchejw wrote:

What legal trouble?

mitchejw
 Rep: 115 

Re: Tracks on the album better than the Rough Mixes

mitchejw wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

It's a fair post & I'll agree with it.  I don't get too into the demos vs album stuff much, I dunno, some of the songs themselves are just, mehh. I felt IRS & TWAT needed to be worked on to be more 'radio friendly' 'pop', not saying they would be radio songs, but to have achieved a more cohesive album. Those could've used tinkering (ex. TWAT vocals, bridge/chorus). And, I know it was a main feature to the song, but I'd have preferred Madagascar without the samples. It was done for UYI, and just feels like a throwback. Esp when half of it was Cool Hand Luke again. Its 90 seconds that fills up basically the last 2 1/2 minutes.

I still hear it clown horn when the song transitions from the samples back to actual singing. I’ve mentioned it before on this message board. It always makes me chuckle

Wagszilla
 Rep: 6 

Re: Tracks on the album better than the Rough Mixes

Wagszilla wrote:

The best of what we've got:

  1. Chinese Democracy (2000, RMCD#1 version)

  2. Shackler's Revenge (2008, album version)

  3. Better (2006/2003, leak version)

  4. The Blues (2000, RMCD#1 version)

  5. If The World (2000, RMCD#2 version)

  6. There Was A Time (2006/2003, leak version)

  7. Catcher In The Rye (2000, RMCD#1 version)

  8. Scraped (2008, album version)

  9. Riad (2000, RMCD#1 version)

  10. Sorry (2008, album version)

  11. I.R.S. (2000, RMCD#3 version)

  12. Madagascar (2000, +3dB New Brain Drums versio0n

  13. This I Love (2008, album version)

  14. Prostitute (2008, album version)


Alternatives I could see an argument for:

  • Better (2008, album version)
    Still damn good. Very well mixed. The only negative is the obvious cut/paste "meltdown" effect.
    .

  • If The World (2008, album version)
    I like the channel mixing effect. The differences are minor but not bad changes.
    .

  • There Was A Time (2000, RMCD#1 version)
    This version is damn good but Buckethead's solo work is too good to pass up.
    .

  • I.R.S. (2006/2003 leak version)
    It's the classic "raw vs. polished" question. I went with raw but this version is also incredible.
    .

  • Madagascar (2008 Antiquiet leak version)
    I wouldn't agree but the dry mixback of Axl's vocal makes him sound human and not like he pinched a dip before singing.


The Zoot/Stinson Principle™ was my selection criteria.

The older stuff "smokes their ass" and minor adjustments of the preferred track-listing above could've been "fixed in the mix".

Three tracks were included from the released album because no other version exists (Shacklers, Scraped, This I Love).

The other two (Sorry, Prostitute) on "Sorry" the demo has no vocal track so I had to include it even though the demo's instrumental blows the finished version out of the water. Prostitute, despite the weird stuff like the incredible SNES RPG outro was too raw and missing Buckethead's godtier work so it couldn't be included.

In short, I only wanted to include one of the album versions.

And unleaked alternative versions would likely replace all five.

Disaster zone.

Re: Tracks on the album better than the Rough Mixes

Sky Dog wrote:

I’ll take RMCD1 with IRS inserted for Silkworms. Those ten tracks fixed in the mix with Bucket solos added on to TWAT and IRS. Suck it. axl

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Tracks on the album better than the Rough Mixes

misterID wrote:

Ron is the problem with the album, save ITW.

Wagszilla
 Rep: 6 

Re: Tracks on the album better than the Rough Mixes

Wagszilla wrote:
misterID wrote:

Ron is the problem with the album, save ITW.

Not fair to blame Ol’ Ronnie.

The mix, nutting of the drums and bass, and 1,000 pointless layers and overdubs are way worse.

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Tracks on the album better than the Rough Mixes

misterID wrote:

Okay, not releasing the RTB, Andy Wallace album was the problem. 16

elevendayempire
 Rep: 84 

Re: Tracks on the album better than the Rough Mixes

Wagszilla wrote:

The other two (Sorry, Prostitute) on "Sorry" the demo has no vocal track so I had to include it even though the demo's instrumental blows the finished version out of the water. Prostitute, despite the weird stuff like the incredible SNES RPG outro was too raw and missing Buckethead's godtier work so it couldn't be included.

Couldn't you just plop the vocals from the Rock Band multitracks onto the instrumental demo of Sorry? Sure, it'd be a Frankenstein's monster and not a "real" demo, but needs must...

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