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Blackstar
 Rep: 8 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

Blackstar wrote:

The "Slash is a cancer" comment was in 2009.

According to Marc Canter, Axl was still open to include Slash on CD until 2006/2007 provided that Slash would apologize for certain things he had said the press. But Slash wasn't going to do that (although he did apologize in private - through Beta - for some of his Velvet Revolver era interviews when he went to Axl's house in October 2005) nor would he accept to be featured on CD only as a "guest" on some songs. Things completely soured on Axl's part after Slash's book was released.

Marc said recently that one of the three songs Slash had written on that Axl wanted to include on CD was Fall To Pieces (I suppose that was, of course, before it was released as a VR song). So this confirms what Axl said in the forum chats about the origins of Fall To Pieces, even though Slash has claimed that he first came up with the idea for it in late 2001/early 2002.

Wilco
 Rep: 1 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

Wilco wrote:
Blackstar wrote:

The "Slash is a cancer" comment was in 2009.

According to Marc Canter, Axl was still open to include Slash on CD until 2006/2007 provided that Slash would apologize for certain things he had said the press. But Slash wasn't going to do that (although he did apologize in private - through Beta - for some of his Velvet Revolver era interviews when he went to Axl's house in October 2005) nor would he accept to be featured on CD only as a "guest" on some songs. Things completely soured on Axl's part after Slash's book was released.

Marc said recently that one of the three songs Slash had written on that Axl wanted to include on CD was Fall To Pieces (I suppose that was, of course, before it was released as a VR song). So this confirms what Axl said in the forum chats about the origins of Fall To Pieces, even though Slash has claimed that he first came up with the idea for it in late 2001/early 2002.

One of the suckiest things about the reunion is that we’ll never really know how things went down (from Axl’s side), and also that a lot of this archival material (IE early Fall to Pieces, GNR version of Back and Forth Again, and so on) will never see the light of day. Even stuff that is less important but still interesting like the re recorded AFD won’t.

Wilco
 Rep: 1 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

Wilco wrote:
Blackstar wrote:

Slash: “Hard Skool,” in essence, was a completed song when I was first introduced to it. And Duff and I went in and redid the bass and the guitars. [February 2022]

https://www.a-4-d.com/t4135-hard-skool

So if it's from 1996, Slash wasn't involved with it then and it was only Duff and Matt.

It could be two different songs. Duff said Axl was a big Jackie Chan fan, so it's likely that he gave that working title to another, later song.

The one thing that makes me still think it could be 96 is that Slash really wasn’t involved much after 1994. He was basically unofficially out long before Axl sent his fax, with only a few sessions and rehearsals here and there in 95 and 96 that it doesn’t seem he was really invested in. Like on your site there’s that one 96 interview where he says he hasn’t even seen Axl in roughly 3 years (before he “rejoined” for that 3 week period in fall 1996 before finally leaving)

Also 1996 as you know is the year where Matt and Duff are quoted multiple times saying Axl has been spending the last few years learning to play guitar, with both praising his level of skill on it. So it could’ve initiated as a riff or idea he worked on

Add in Slash’s last chat before he left where he claimed the material they were working on was Axl’s.

James
 Rep: 652 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

James wrote:

Also take into consideration how Matt said in 96-97 they had cooked up about an albums worth of 4 minute rockers...both Hard School and Oklahoma could potentially fall into this category.

After reading that Slash comment Blackstar posted, I definitely want to see Duff go into further detail.


The one thing that makes me still think it could be 96 is that Slash really wasn’t involved much after 1994.

Oh he was involved... dive into the 95-96 section of Chinese Whispers. The problem with his involvement is how they're barely on speaking terms and Axl is bringing zero lyrics/vocals to the table. The sessions are nothing but riffs, jams, and instrumentals.

It still blows me away that for a brief moment in time, Axl had both Slash and Zakk jamming in the studio and supposedly nothing came of it.

Out of the songs we've heard, I'd wager Oklahoma has its roots in 96.

Axl’s press release which said Slash hadn’t been involved musically since 1994 outside of a brief “feel period” in 1995.

The problem with believing Axl's side of the story is the contradictions.

One minute he wasn't there since 1994...the next minute he was there but disliked the material Slash brought to the table...the minute after that he loved it but Slash balked.

He is an unreliable narrator of the GNR saga....and that is a travesty considering the fact the other narrators are Slash and Duff...two guys who left for 20 years.

All the various gaps in the stories are unlikely to ever be filled.

James
 Rep: 652 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

James wrote:
Blackstar wrote:

The "Slash is a cancer" comment was in 2009.

According to Marc Canter, Axl was still open to include Slash on CD until 2006/2007 provided that Slash would apologize for certain things he had said the press. But Slash wasn't going to do that (although he did apologize in private - through Beta - for some of his Velvet Revolver era interviews when he went to Axl's house in October 2005) nor would he accept to be featured on CD only as a "guest" on some songs. Things completely soured on Axl's part after Slash's book was released.

Marc said recently that one of the three songs Slash had written on that Axl wanted to include on CD was Fall To Pieces (I suppose that was, of course, before it was released as a VR song). So this confirms what Axl said in the forum chats about the origins of Fall To Pieces, even though Slash has claimed that he first came up with the idea for it in late 2001/early 2002.

This late in the game, most interesting time period IMO is 2005- early 2006 where a reunion of some sort was clearly taking shape until it imploded for reasons we'll never know.

I'd like the full true story on what really went down during the Beta incident...it all went to shit after that.

elevendayempire
 Rep: 91 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

James wrote:
Blackstar wrote:

The "Slash is a cancer" comment was in 2009.

According to Marc Canter, Axl was still open to include Slash on CD until 2006/2007 provided that Slash would apologize for certain things he had said the press. But Slash wasn't going to do that (although he did apologize in private - through Beta - for some of his Velvet Revolver era interviews when he went to Axl's house in October 2005) nor would he accept to be featured on CD only as a "guest" on some songs. Things completely soured on Axl's part after Slash's book was released.

Marc said recently that one of the three songs Slash had written on that Axl wanted to include on CD was Fall To Pieces (I suppose that was, of course, before it was released as a VR song). So this confirms what Axl said in the forum chats about the origins of Fall To Pieces, even though Slash has claimed that he first came up with the idea for it in late 2001/early 2002.

This late in the game, most interesting time period IMO is 2005- early 2006 where a reunion of some sort was clearly taking shape until it imploded for reasons we'll never know.

I'd like the full true story on what really went down during the Beta incident...it all went to shit after that.

The big question for me is, what would've happened if that 2006 reunion went ahead? Chinese Democracy was basically in a finished state at that point, and Axl has historically shown himself to be keen to honour the work that musicians have put in (hence Buckethead being all over Chinese Democracy).

Which means that the 2006 tour wouldn't have been in support of an album, 'cos there's no way that the record company would permit it to be released without wholesale re-recording from Slash and Duff. And knowing Axl that would've taken at least a couple of years.

Still, though. The likely configuration of that band would've been 2006 Axl on top form, with Slash, Duff, Fortus, Brain, Dizzy and Pitman. Which would've been a hell of a show.

polluxlm
 Rep: 216 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

polluxlm wrote:

Slash would have been on top form too. Not impressed by his playing these days.

James
 Rep: 652 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

James wrote:
elevendayempire wrote:
James wrote:
Blackstar wrote:

The "Slash is a cancer" comment was in 2009.

According to Marc Canter, Axl was still open to include Slash on CD until 2006/2007 provided that Slash would apologize for certain things he had said the press. But Slash wasn't going to do that (although he did apologize in private - through Beta - for some of his Velvet Revolver era interviews when he went to Axl's house in October 2005) nor would he accept to be featured on CD only as a "guest" on some songs. Things completely soured on Axl's part after Slash's book was released.

Marc said recently that one of the three songs Slash had written on that Axl wanted to include on CD was Fall To Pieces (I suppose that was, of course, before it was released as a VR song). So this confirms what Axl said in the forum chats about the origins of Fall To Pieces, even though Slash has claimed that he first came up with the idea for it in late 2001/early 2002.

This late in the game, most interesting time period IMO is 2005- early 2006 where a reunion of some sort was clearly taking shape until it imploded for reasons we'll never know.

I'd like the full true story on what really went down during the Beta incident...it all went to shit after that.

The big question for me is, what would've happened if that 2006 reunion went ahead? Chinese Democracy was basically in a finished state at that point, and Axl has historically shown himself to be keen to honour the work that musicians have put in (hence Buckethead being all over Chinese Democracy).

Which means that the 2006 tour wouldn't have been in support of an album, 'cos there's no way that the record company would permit it to be released without wholesale re-recording from Slash and Duff. And knowing Axl that would've taken at least a couple of years.

Still, though. The likely configuration of that band would've been 2006 Axl on top form, with Slash, Duff, Fortus, Brain, Dizzy and Pitman. Which would've been a hell of a show.


2006 tour would have been in support of the 2 disc GH that was supposed to come out in March but wound up getting shit canned.

It even contains the obvious single....


WELCOME TO THE JUNGLE: THE VERY BEST OF GUNS N' ROSES

Disc One

Jungle
Brownstone
SCOM
Civil War
14 Years
Used To Love Her
Out To Get Me
Down on the Farm
My Michelle
Coma
Move to the City (live)
November Rain
Nightrain
Live and Let Die
Don't Cry (demo)

Disc Two

It's So Easy
You Could Be Mine
KOHD (live)
Patience
Pretty Tied Up
Shadow of Your Love
Double Talking Jive
Locomotive
Dead Horse
You're Crazy (Lies)
Yesterdays
Estranged
Rocket Queen
Paradise City
Jungle (demo)

Wilco
 Rep: 1 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

Wilco wrote:
James wrote:

Also take into consideration how Matt said in 96-97 they had cooked up about an albums worth of 4 minute rockers...both Hard School and Oklahoma could potentially fall into this category.

After reading that Slash comment Blackstar posted, I definitely want to see Duff go into further detail.


The one thing that makes me still think it could be 96 is that Slash really wasn’t involved much after 1994.

Oh he was involved... dive into the 95-96 section of Chinese Whispers. The problem with his involvement is how they're barely on speaking terms and Axl is bringing zero lyrics/vocals to the table. The sessions are nothing but riffs, jams, and instrumentals.

It still blows me away that for a brief moment in time, Axl had both Slash and Zakk jamming in the studio and supposedly nothing came of it.

Out of the songs we've heard, I'd wager Oklahoma has its roots in 96.

Axl’s press release which said Slash hadn’t been involved musically since 1994 outside of a brief “feel period” in 1995.

The problem with believing Axl's side of the story is the contradictions.

One minute he wasn't there since 1994...the next minute he was there but disliked the material Slash brought to the table...the minute after that he loved it but Slash balked.

He is an unreliable narrator of the GNR saga....and that is a travesty considering the fact the other narrators are Slash and Duff...two guys who left for 20 years.

All the various gaps in the stories are unlikely to ever be filled.

The constant re Axl’s level of involvement at least lyrically seems to be that he was obsessed with his legal woes or that they were taking up so much of his energy that he felt he couldn’t produce lyrics. There’s a comment by Zakk Wylde about Axl saying roughly that to him in ‘95. But of course, maybe Axl just had bad writer’s block and that was an excuse?

Then you have Axl later saying that Slash, Duff and Stephanie destroyed his self esteem by saying his material was crap and that’s why he didn’t write for a long time. True, not true? Who can say

It does seem to me overall though that the combination of the Snakepit material being “taken” by Slash (when Axl changed his mind and wanted to work on it) and the Sympathy for the Devil fiasco happening very close to each other really fractured things between Axl and Slash. It seems right at that point at the end of 94 things do seem to come to a standstill

Yes, Slash is around for the Zakk sessions in Jan 95. But were  he and Axl in the room at the same time or was it separate with Axl only hearing tapes of these rehearsals?

Similarly next time he’d be available would be August 95…Axl was pissed he took Snakepit out on tour. I’m sure Slash did jam and rehearse with Matt / Duff / Dizzy, but was Axl there?

There was the whole Paul Huge issue hanging over the band that Axl wouldn’t let go of

Slash seems to have detached in 95 mentally, keeping himself busy with actually productive and non drama ridden stuff and getting increasingly bitter regarding Axl in the press throughout that year

Wilco
 Rep: 1 

Re: Hard Skool: Does it date from ‘96?

Wilco wrote:
James wrote:
Blackstar wrote:

The "Slash is a cancer" comment was in 2009.

According to Marc Canter, Axl was still open to include Slash on CD until 2006/2007 provided that Slash would apologize for certain things he had said the press. But Slash wasn't going to do that (although he did apologize in private - through Beta - for some of his Velvet Revolver era interviews when he went to Axl's house in October 2005) nor would he accept to be featured on CD only as a "guest" on some songs. Things completely soured on Axl's part after Slash's book was released.

Marc said recently that one of the three songs Slash had written on that Axl wanted to include on CD was Fall To Pieces (I suppose that was, of course, before it was released as a VR song). So this confirms what Axl said in the forum chats about the origins of Fall To Pieces, even though Slash has claimed that he first came up with the idea for it in late 2001/early 2002.

This late in the game, most interesting time period IMO is 2005- early 2006 where a reunion of some sort was clearly taking shape until it imploded for reasons we'll never know.

I'd like the full true story on what really went down during the Beta incident...it all went to shit after that.

I agree, I’d like the full story here too. It does seem that things were being maneuvered toward a reunion, only for it to collapse and Axl to come out of whatever happened even MORE angry and hateful toward Slash.

Which is a shame. A reunion circa 05-06-07 would’ve been amazing.

Axl was in terrific shape physically and vocally in those years and Slash still gave a shit, plus Izzy was on good terms with Axl at that time and could’ve been involved in a reunion.

This was the period where Axl and Matt seemed to bury the hatchet too, making it possible for him to have been involved in some capacity as well.

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