You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: Slash added Welcome to the Jungle to the setlist!
I've never heard of 3/4 of those KISS songs. Granted, I'm not a fan, but I probably should have at least heard of them. The Beatles own just about anybody you want to compare them to objectively.
They don't own this....the Stones at their peak...which is below...were a better "rock" band. Now, we all know the Beatles were more artistically influential and commercially successful. But, holy hell, watch the energy in this. An incredible dvd that just came out...1972. 
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Slash added Welcome to the Jungle to the setlist!
In response to the discussion about who GNR influenced, part of the lack of recognition is the "grunge mentality" of trying to act punk and not give too much credit to influences. GNR was a huge influence on grunge. They were the bridge between 80's pop metal and grunge. In Kim Neeley's book on Pearl Jam, "5 against 1," she states that Eddie, Cornell, Staley all practically worshipped Axl when GNR first came out. He was a guy who was singing/writing/behaving like they wanted to see a front man. Really there's a lot of comparisons between Axl and the Seattle frontmen. I don't know if because grunge was supposed to be "alternative" and GNR was the biggest band at the time, or Axl's spat with Cobain, but when they eventually got popular none of those guys were going to cite Axl as an influence.
The popularity thing is part of it, but the other part of it is how over the top Axl's antics became during the UYI era. The pianos, keyboards, orchestra, female backup singers, biker shorts, etc. It became pretty darn cheesy even though Axl was still the greatest showman on the planet even with this stuff hurting his credibility. He's the only guy who could get away with the biker shorts nonsense. Everyone was thinking WTF but most wouldn't say anything because the guy put on a hell of a show.
You are definitely right about Cornell. Him playing on Slash's solo record is a sign that he certainly didn't view them as being the establishment corporate rock like Poison. Cobain is such a fucking hypocrite, criticizing Axl for his excessive behavior while bragging about how down to earth he was...and then he got busted spending $40,000 in one weekend with his wife at a luxurious resort. Hell, the very fact that he signed on with the same label as GN'R made him a fucking hypocrite to begin with. He's sitting there on a pedestal calling GN'R corporate sellouts while basically engaging in the same shit. And sure enough, what has been the result of Nirvana's messianic treatment from the media? The corporations took over the grunge "movement" and now we have a rock industry with the likes of Nickelback as our replacement for Poison. Thanks Kurt. 
Re: Slash added Welcome to the Jungle to the setlist!
buzzsaw wrote:I've never heard of 3/4 of those KISS songs. Granted, I'm not a fan, but I probably should have at least heard of them. The Beatles own just about anybody you want to compare them to objectively.
They don't own this....the Stones at their peak...which is below...were a better "rock" band. Now, we all know the Beatles were more artistically influential and commercially successful. But, holy hell, watch the energy in this. An incredible dvd that just came out...1972.
I wasn't a huge stones fan and I prefer the beatles, but the stones were arguably as good as the beatles. There are a few others that can at least compete, which is why I said they own just about anybody.
The beatles are actually an interesting study in music. They started as rebels, cleaned up and went corporate, then went back to rebelling. Not many bands could have pulled that of like they did.
Re: Slash added Welcome to the Jungle to the setlist!
I prefer the Stones also, just to backup Madagas. Beggar's Banquet up through Exile On Main Street... nothing in The Beatles catalog touches that.
As for what Tejas was saying about the new generation of music, post-grunge, honestly dude I don't think you can blame Kurt Cobain or grunge in general for creating post-grunge. Obviously any form of music is streamlined and refined by a producer, and the shit just happens. No rhyme or reason.
I've noticed some of the classic rock stations i've listened to are now playing Creed, Korn, Metallica (Load, Reload & Garage Inc.) as "classic rock" now.
So the change is coming. But I don't think bands like GN'R are leaving the classic rock rotation anytime soon. But I also hear GN'R on "modern rock" stations too.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Slash added Welcome to the Jungle to the setlist!
As for what Tejas was saying about the new generation of music, post-grunge, honestly dude I don't think you can blame Kurt Cobain or grunge in general for creating post-grunge.
I'm just taking the two-way street approach on how the media has built up Cobain/Nirvana over the years. If he "saved" the music world from hair metal, we should also look at the other side of it. What came after and was it really much better than hair metal? IMHO, Nickelback is worse than Poison. It's a more insidious form of corporate rock. At least with Poison you could tell right off the bat by looking at them that they were a joke. 
Re: Slash added Welcome to the Jungle to the setlist!
I've never quite understood the God-like stature that was appointed to Cobain and Nirvana for saving rock music. It just didn't work for me on any level. Nirvana was a good band, but 1) They were not the best grunge band in the genre, 2) Other bands had better singles, 3) Other bands had better albums, 4) Cobain wasn't the best vocalist in grunge, and 5) Cobain wasn't even the best writer. All of those statements are irrefutable, even to the die-est of hard Nirvana fans.
I guaranfuckintee you that Chris Cornell, Layne Staley, Eddie Vedder and even Jerry Cantrell & Dave Grohl were far bigger influences on music, rock music, and post grunge than Kurt Cobain himself.
Really overrated guy.
I agree with you on the Nickelback thing, and i'd even throw Creed in there also. There's others like Shinedown and Lifehouse and Hinder and all these bands that, although good, are totally manufactured in an office. Very streamlined.
I felt Bon Jovi also fit that category. I know everyone thinks it's this REAL original rock band who had a shit load of hits and album sales, but the reality was that Bon Jovi was one of the most manufactured radio-rock bands of their generation. If Cobain was responsible for Nickleback, then Jon Bon Jovi was responsible for Chris fuckin' Daughtry. Thanks for nothing.
I ALWAYS respected Poison FAR more. At least Poison knew right out of the gate what they were doing, selling, and by God they were proud of it. It's almost like Poison KNOWS they are a parody of a rock band. Even alot of their songs come across as shtick, especially the rockers (not the ballads).
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Slash added Welcome to the Jungle to the setlist!
I've never quite understood the God-like stature that was appointed to Cobain and Nirvana for saving rock music. It just didn't work for me on any level. Nirvana was a good band, but 1) They were not the best grunge band in the genre, 2) Other bands had better singles, 3) Other bands had better albums, 4) Cobain wasn't the best vocalist in grunge, and 5) Cobain wasn't even the best writer. All of those statements are irrefutable, even to the die-est of hard Nirvana fans.
I guaranfuckintee you that Chris Cornell, Layne Staley, Eddie Vedder and even Jerry Cantrell & Dave Grohl were far bigger influences on music, rock music, and post grunge than Kurt Cobain himself.
Really overrated guy.
Yeah, Cornell is a god compared to Cobain but never gets that kind of credit. Kind of a shame too. At least Cornell wasn't hypocritical about his job like Cobain. Cornell realized GN'R was a damn good band and not only toured with them but recently worked with Slash on his solo album. Cobain tried to put grunge on a pedestal. At the end of the day it's just rock and roll. Nirvana was no more of a rock and roll band than GN'R, yet that's exactly the kind of stance Cobain took with the media. There's a reason GN'R were compared to the Stones/Aerosmith/Zeppelin when AFD came out. It's because they WEREN'T corporate rock. Did Axl go over the top with the UYI videos, pianos, orchestras, etc.? Hell yes. Was it corporate rock? I don't think so. I think it was just self-indulgent stuff by a great rock band. Zeppelin and the Stones were both known for similar shenanigans, but I seriously doubt the likes of Cobain would accuse those two bands of being "corporate rock" and basically trying to stick them in the same category as the Bon Jovi's of the world. GN'R was as real of a hard rock band as there's ever been. The intensity in the music itself does not lie, regardless of how over the top Axl's performance antics became.
Re: Slash added Welcome to the Jungle to the setlist!
Yeah, I always thought it was ironic that Krist & Dave were hanging out with Brian May & Roger Taylor backstage and Kurt was embarrassed for spitting on Elton John's piano... YET... if Nirvana knew anything about Axl's state of mind at the time and his presentation with GN'R, echoed by people from the inner circle at the time, during the UYI days Axl had dreams of making GN'R the biggest of all-time, dreams of legendary backstage parties like Queen had, over-indulgence on every level.
It wasn't about selling out. It was about the very fiber of what rock n' roll is. Axl was simply living out the role of the legend he would become.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: Slash added Welcome to the Jungle to the setlist!
Yeah, I always thought it was ironic that Krist & Dave were hanging out with Brian May & Roger Taylor backstage and Kurt was embarrassed for spitting on Elton John's piano... YET... if Nirvana knew anything about Axl's state of mind at the time and his presentation with GN'R, echoed by people from the inner circle at the time, during the UYI days Axl had dreams of making GN'R the biggest of all-time, dreams of legendary backstage parties like Queen had, over-indulgence on every level.
It wasn't about selling out. It was about the very fiber of what rock n' roll is. Axl was simply living out the role of the legend he would become.
Yep. It makes a lot of sense that he/they burned out so quickly. I mean fuck, I was just looking at some videos on YouTube from the Philadelphia show in 1988. My God, the amount of energy by all of them on that stage was probably enough to give them heart attacks -- especially considering their drug use at the time. It's a miracle the bastards are all still alive and it's a miracle they didn't flame out sooner than they did. Axl in particular, holy shit that guy's energy level in his prime was unmatched by anyone ever -- INCLUDING Freddie. At some point it implodes on itself, which is how you end up with him being a recluse for 8 years. Dude basically fucking wore himself out from '87-93 by going 1 million miles per hour on stage.
I think a big problem for them from a creativity standpoint was reconciling the fact that they were dirt poor street kids who in the span of a couple years had enough money to last a lifetime. All of their music up to that point was inspired by the shitty Sunset Strip lifestyle. Once you become rich and aren't hanging by a thread, what the hell do you write about? The new room being built in your 4 story mansion? I don't think it's a coincidence that some of the biggest hits on UYI (November Rain, Don't Cry, You Could Be Mine) were written before Appetite was recorded and were basically rejects from the Appetite sessions.
