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Bright Eyes 2005
 Rep: 27 

Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread

Bono wrote:
Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:

Four quick points

--Faldor, great post 5

--No one is suggesting that ACDC fans didn't buy this album--they did.  The last ACDC album was as good as Black Ice, it had a very regular push from the label, without a monumental Wally-World campaign, and sold what 250K in a few months?  Why is this album, which is possibly inferior, selling eight times more in the same period?  Wal Mart.  It's a fact jack, sorry. 

--Who and where are these "excuses"?  The only one bringing these up is you?  It's like you are now making up imaginary people to throw darts at, for imaginary reasons. 

--FYI, 1.5 million people is nothing to sneeze at.  On the other hand, who gives a fuck if it's mass appealing or not?  Does it matter, or not matter, in the big picture if we agree or disagree on that point?  What is your point?  Oh yeah, we're all douchenozzles, and are supposed to acknowledge, that this is not mass appealing enough for Bono, so it sucks.  9

Obvioulsy you  can't for the life of yourself comprehend anything I'm saying. Wal-Mart baby Wal-Mart!!!!  People just need to give it a chance. BOO FUCKING HOO! I have not said the album sucks based on sales figures. Even a monkey knows I haven't said that. It's your lack of ability to comprehend what I'm saying.

1.5 million may not be anything to sneeze at but having an album with this much anticipation and hype free fall off the charts in less than a month is. Figure it out.  the album had more hype than any album in history. Ten years worth and two(three depending on what you consider a  tour) tours to promote it before it's release.  Yeah people just haven't given it a fair chance and Wal -Mart stole their thunder and gave it to AC/DC 16

but again I'm done fighting. So carry on with your Wal-Mart bitch fest Brighteyes.  This is my LAST post on the subject.

Bono, at least read through this--it's an online debate--not personal.

You ARE barking up the wrong tree!  It sucks getting called to the floor on your narrow minded bullshit that used to float right through cyberspace unchecked.  I don't know how to put this, but I am a massive music collector.  I own every U2 album, have listened to them so many times that I have had to replace them multiple times.  I have have multiple U2 DVD's, bootleg DVD's of their infamous Red Rock's show during the Unforgettable Fire tour, etc.  I own every album, you and everyone here has mentioned throughout this thread.  I can hum many of them backwards, and recite the songwriting credits for the songs in my sleep.  I know who produced what album, cover art, etc.   For the life of me, I still cannot figure out what your point is.  Secondly, your insinuations about my posts are flat out lies.  Your drunk rant, I ignored, your sober rants, are even more amusing, and curious. 

I don't even know where to start, but obviously, your inability to read (which you amusingly accuse me of) is a good place to begin.  At this point, I want to make clear, I just flat out don't give a shit about sales.  Secondly, I don't care what the Axl-maniacs--who you correctly identify as delusional--excuses are about why it is not selling enough to satisfy their need for it to be huge.  Never have cared about sales, and never will, that's how it is with me.  Many of the albums I treasure most, probably sold less than 100K total in the states.  So whatever you initially were bitching about, maybe me saying that I personally think doing little to no promotion is admirable in this day and age by GNR, I am sorry if I misunderstood.

Also, btw, this album was hyped as the "most anticipated album" in vain.  Old media might have hyped it like mad, but no one is reading that anymore.  It never had the TV, Internet, and cross media marketing that any major release this year had.  In fact, it had virtually none of that.  Music purchasing is partially impulse--getting something while it is hot.  This had no marketing playing to the "impulse" buyer.  It did have many stories about it, but many were just repeating "it took 15 years to come out" and "we'll believe it when we see it in the stores" story-lines.  That is not hype, that is random pontification, reinforcing the idea that "it still may not come out".  Whatever you want to call it, it is not:  "CD is out, $10 Best Buy, it's a bargain, music is great".  It was not "sales hype", which moves units.  It definitely had no "saturation" marketing the two weeks leading up to the release like Black Ice did.


The most important thing inhibiting "massive" sales, is the fact that the album does not and will not have a commercial "hard rock" mega-hit.  It may have a ballad that does well, but not a huge hit.  This album, though, does have great songs, which are complicated, and grow on one.  Moreover, due to the typical weirdness (no tour, no interview, disappearing, back-story, etc), it will continue to be shrouded in some sort of mystery.  It is not going to disappear--my bet is it will sell steady next year in the 5K to 10K a week range for quite some time, and will do so due to word of mouth.  There are many music fans,  who know it today or don't, hungry or high quality music crafted like this album--they will find it.  Rock is still on an upswing, and this is one of those albums that has a certain place in rock history--so it will still sell some units next year.  Nothing like ACDC, but it will sell.

Neemo
 Rep: 481 

Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread

Neemo wrote:

in todays world of instant gratification the average person doesnt have the time or patience to let music "grow" on them..they let the media and radio beat them down with repeated air play until something sticks

if its catchy it takes off....if you have to think too much then forget it...thats why bands like ac/dc and nickleback, hinder, theory of a deadman...all work cuz they lyrics are often repeated over and over again...or there is a catchy or familiar hook in the music (aka Sweet Home Alabama in that Kid Rock tune) ... with CD you have to pay attention and listen multiple times to pull anything out of it (at least that's my personal experience with the album, there was just so much to take in i couldnt do it in one sitting) if its too complicated then people will move on to something else...now metallica is a differnet story...but its fast and aggressive so it gets peopel pumped up....8 ballads on a 14 track disk doesnt really get many peopel pumped up...i think the album is great...but its for die hard Axl fans...its an album for the online forum fans...and there isnt anythign wrong with that IMHO

metallex78
 Rep: 188 

Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread

metallex78 wrote:

One thing with all these references to other big bands selling bucket loads, consider this:

AC/DC released an album that sounds like AC/DC
Metallica released an album that sounds like Metallica
Guns N' Roses released an album that sounds a little like GN'R, but for the most part, I think people were turned off by the new sounds and styles of CD.

Rex
 Rep: 50 

Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread

Rex wrote:

I don't think anyone who wasn't on the boards knew what to expect on this record.  Hell, it's a wonder anyone even knew about the record, unless you got Best Buy ads in the mail, or picked up the sunday paper.

NY Giants82
 Rep: 26 

Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread

NY Giants82 wrote:

My point hasnt been that if people just listen to it, they'll like it. I'm not going to argue that point. All I have said is that if this album would have been a Wal Mart exclusive and they pushed the shit out of it like they did AC/DC, it would have sold more than being an exclusive at Best Buy. It simple math. Thats all. I know you said that it is everywhere in Canada, but the bottom line is that doesnt matter as much as what is sold in the US.

Bright Eyes 2005
 Rep: 27 

Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread

Insinuating that this is doing bad in Canada is funny, as it is #8 on their album charts this week.  That is pretty good, last time I checked.

Neemo
 Rep: 481 

Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread

Neemo wrote:
Bright Eyes 2005 wrote:

Insinuating that this is doing bad in Canada is funny, as it is #8 on their album charts this week.  That is pretty good, last time I checked.

i know its doing well up here and i've said as much numerous times...as for how its doing in alberta? i have no idea but if you read something about canada then you can bet its talking about south western ontario or Vancouver ...not to take away from the other provinces, but Ontario seems to get most of the credit for the whole country

Chinese democracy hasnt fallen off the top 9 at my local station since it was release...it currently sits at #5 after nearly 10 weeks....pretty good IMO

thats why i wasnt understanding the whole "Its a Flop" debate cuz up here its received a decent reception 9

R.B. Huckleberry
 Rep: 2 

Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread

The U.S. is a mess. After years of buildup, everyone has suddenly noticed the economy is in the toilet. Panic is teh malls, so to speak. That's a factor as well. Wal-Mart would have sold twice as many copies as Best Buy, no doubt. But I don't think music in general, as reflected in Kanye's sales (and other artists. Everything in general is way down), is going to be important to people concerned with straight up survival.

Gunslinger
 Rep: 88 

Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread

Gunslinger wrote:

We can argue all day either side but yes Best Buy did hurt sales at least to some extent but NOT as much as the lack of promo.

The comparisons are between Black Ice, Death Magnetic and Chinese Democracy appearing over and over in this thread.

With that in mind I can make the only comparison that matters:

1. Black Ice - Better than most post-The Razor's Edge AC/DC albums but still not very good.  Three songs are decent, two good and the rest forgettable.  At best a C album.

2.Death Magnetic - Metallica hasn't put out a solid album in years but this one is getting closer.  Half the album sucks, a couple of songs are good the rest very mediocre.   At best a C- album.

3.Chinese Democracy - It's not the original band members but there are some strong songs.  Only three or so suck, half are really good and the rest are at least decent.  I think it is a solid B to B- effort.  Although these ratings are totally my opinions and nothingmore I think this is the best of the three albums and (to me) that is the only comparison that really matters.

-D-
 Rep: 231 

Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread

-D- wrote:

Let me throw my hat in the ring on this


CD doesn't "SUCK" but it isn't very commercial or listener friendly if you get what I mean.

There isn't any songs on CD that u can point to and say "YES THIS WILL KNOCK THEM DEAD"

every song is sort of the same theme and just not very radio friendly type stuff. That doesn't mean it sucks or isn't great but when u listen to WTTJ, SCOM, NR, PC, U can hear it and say "FUCK YEAH, that is gonna make my friend John who isn't a GNR fan listen.

The songs are self indulgent, not very broad and aren't easily appreciated by the masses of regular people.

That is why it hasn't sold not to mention the complete fuck up of the release and the worst possible first single choice known to man.


Singles sell albums, people love music they can relate to their life. I always loved GNR and other bands cause it's like they wrote the soundtrack to my life.

Who the fuck can relate to CD? U know? It has a basic riff, no hooks and just isn't relatable. people can't put their hearts around it.

that is what sells albums.

I want the original GNR and I no longer care who gives me shit or talks shit about me for saying so.

we've heard VR, we've now heard Axl and it's fairly obvious that neither is nowhere near the top level without one another.

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