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Re: The Wrestling thread
After Austins original leaving in 2002 while Rock was off making films, till the Cena era began in 05.
Brock Lesnar
Kurt Angle
Undertaker - Who certainly wasn't a guest spot wrestler back then
Goldberg
Booker T
Rob Van Dam
Shawn Michaels - Game back shortly after Austim left in the 02 run
Chris Jericho
Ric Flair
Eddie Guerrero
Chris Benoit
All way more over than Triple H including Merch. 3 of which were buried by Triple H.
Throw in guys in that era in the midcard, like Jeff Hardy and Edge ect. Triple H carry that era?
When Triple H came back from that torn quad, he was getting big face for the first real time in his career, it lasted a few months. What came after was an injured Triple H refusing to drop the title and using politics to bury and stop guys like RVD and Booker T winning the title back when they were at there peak. That's to name a few.
That was also the infamous "Katie Vick" era.
Re: The Wrestling thread
The thing is it takes good booking to create interesting personas.
Note- Cena won the world title for the first time at WM21. Beating HHH at WM22 is what turned him into a huge huge superstar.
I'm not taking away from the drawing power of Triple H, I'm just saying at this stage in his career he needs to start putting people over to try and make new stars, and it would have been a good idea if there had been done earlier.
The Paul London/Brian Kendrick burial springs to mind. I'm not suggesting for one second that those guys had much of a shot at becoming stars, but hell, when Austin was in WCW did he look like he was going to become a star, he didn't become a mic god till later. If he had been buried like some of the guys that HHH has done to we might never have seen Stone Cold Steve Austin but only seen Stunning Steve Austin who we wish all the best, in his future endeavours.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Bono wrote:So what. In my opinion he's one of if not the only guy who has been able to genuinely carry a storyline over the past decade. He's not past it and he's a badass character. He still gets a huge pop when his music hits, he shouldn't be jobbing to the new scrubs on the roster who can't hold a crowd. untill they find a guy who can legitimately comand the crowd let Triple H carry the ball. As it should be. I sure as fuck don't wanna see Triple H ever jobbing to a douche like Ziggler.... CM Punk fine but there's so much shit on the roster these days. Triple H isa bright spot for sure.
Forgot to write this earlier- THAT IS THE PROBLEM WITH HHH. It's in fact a classic example of him not putting people over when he should. WHY THE HELL DID HE NOT JOB TO PUNK.
It made no sense and killed Punk's momentum, and having Nash didn't help.
*Ok rant about HHH over, Merry Christmas everyone!
I'm still trying to figure out what the point was of having Nash interfere with SummerSlam. I mean it helped no one but Nash and HHH. Del Rio or Punk didn't benefit at all from this. It helped derail the CM Punk momentum from the MITB win. I mean he was probably guaranteed a rematch at Wrestlemania with the Undertaker next year so it's not like he need the spotlight again for a while.
HHH might wrestle better than most of the current roster but he gives the same monologue promo and still buries guys.
And yeah, the previous list posted by AtariLegend is damning evidence against HHH. I'm pretty sure the WWE had other guys booked to win the title at Wrestlemania (Booker T and RVD) but they got nixed at the last minute by HHH.
I think of current guys Orton is probably closest to being overprotected. With the exception of HHH and Mark Henry, very few wrestlers have come out of a feud with Orton that have had their heat intact. CM Punk last year feuded with Orton last spring and lost all their matches and came out weaker. Same thing with Christian. I fear he is doing the same in his feud with Wade Barett.
Re: The Wrestling thread
Speaking of Orton and Triple H... Orton on his best heel run ever, has just won the Rumble, SHOULD, be going into WM25 Main Event and winning the title from HHH.... instead gets the belt at the next PPV in some stupid tag match thing...at Backlash.
Re: The Wrestling thread
After Austins original leaving in 2002 while Rock was off making films, till the Cena era began in 05.
Brock Lesnar
Kurt Angle
Undertaker - Who certainly wasn't a guest spot wrestler back then
Goldberg
Booker T
Rob Van Dam
Shawn Michaels - Game back shortly after Austim left in the 02 run
Chris Jericho
Ric Flair
Eddie Guerrero
Chris BenoitAll way more over than Triple H including Merch. 3 of which were buried by Triple H.
Throw in guys in that era in the midcard, like Jeff Hardy and Edge ect. Triple H carry that era?
When Triple H came back from that torn quad, he was getting big face for the first real time in his career, it lasted a few months. What came after was an injured Triple H refusing to drop the title and using politics to bury and stop guys like RVD and Booker T winning the title back when they were at there peak. That's to name a few.
That was also the infamous "Katie Vick" era.
You really think guys like
Brock Lesnar
Goldberg
Booker T
Rob Van Dam
Ric Flair
Eddie Guerrero
Chris Benoit
were carrying the era? Fuck no. They were good because they had in ring talent with little to know talent on the mic and got to work with other Great performesr IE: Angle, HHH, Taker etc. . No fucking way guys like Benoit ever carried their storylines. It was always carried by the guy he was feuding with. Goldberg sucked on the mic, Lesnar sucked on the mic(he's actuallya better persona in MMA than he ever was in WWE), Booker T, RVD sucked on the mic, Flair was good on the mic but was so past his prime it was not even funny.
I'll give you Undertaker, Jericho and Angle and to an extent HBK but HBK was ruined when they had him start jobbing to everyone including Hogan. Why the fuck did The Rock not have to job to Hogan yet HBK did? That was fucking bad move on WWE's part, expecially considering HBK was the only guy who sold that feud.
Triple H did carry that era. He was the legit superstar who could feud with everyone, carry every angle regardless of what it was and pull it off in spades. Take him out of that era and they've got a problem.
Guys like RVD and Booker T needed to be stopped because theyd' have just gotten the title for shits and giggles. Just because. Triple H did try to help put Benoit over and look how that worked. Benoit sucked and RVD and Booker T are argueably just as bad as Benoit so why would they devalue Triple H just to put guys over just because? You put guys over if they have the ability to take the ball and run. None of those guys did. Except maybe Lesnar who's heart wasn't ever really in it anyways.
Speaking of Orton and Triple H... Orton on his best heel run ever, has just won the Rumble, SHOULD, be going into WM25 Main Event and winning the title from HHH.... instead gets the belt at the next PPV in some stupid tag match thing...at Backlash.
Orton sucks. I'd rather watch paint dry
Re: The Wrestling thread
McMahon doesn't know what to do with Punk. Period.
HHH staying the "face" absolutely killed the Punk feud. He seriously could have had just as good of a feud with Punk as some corporate heel as the Austin/Vince feud. But it was dull and horrible. And they decided to give him a feud with THE worst personality on wrestling; Laurinaitis .
I'm a big Punk fan, but I can't watch the show.
Re: The Wrestling thread
McMahon doesn't know what to do with Punk. Period.
HHH staying the "face" absolutely killed the Punk feud. He seriously could have had just as good of a feud with Punk as some corporate heel as the Austin/Vince feud. But it was dull and horrible. And they decided to give him a feud with THE worst personality on wrestling; Laurinaitis .
I'm a big Punk fan, but I can't watch the show.
I'm the same. I like CM Punk he's a good new character for sure but the oevrall product si so lame I always end up turning the channel. I can't watch either RAW or Smackdown(never cared for Smackdown) in full anymore. I'll usually watch the opening segment, see if anything catches me and then I'll turn it off. I'll pop back in mid way through just see if I'm missing anything and I never am and then I'll watch the ending of it. Also someone else mentioned it a few posts back but the diavs fucking suck. It's horrible. Waste of air time for sure.
Re: The Wrestling thread
AtariLegend wrote:After Austins original leaving in 2002 while Rock was off making films, till the Cena era began in 05.
Brock Lesnar
Kurt Angle
Undertaker - Who certainly wasn't a guest spot wrestler back then
Goldberg
Booker T
Rob Van Dam
Shawn Michaels - Game back shortly after Austim left in the 02 run
Chris Jericho
Ric Flair
Eddie Guerrero
Chris BenoitAll way more over than Triple H including Merch. 3 of which were buried by Triple H.
Throw in guys in that era in the midcard, like Jeff Hardy and Edge ect. Triple H carry that era?
When Triple H came back from that torn quad, he was getting big face for the first real time in his career, it lasted a few months. What came after was an injured Triple H refusing to drop the title and using politics to bury and stop guys like RVD and Booker T winning the title back when they were at there peak. That's to name a few.
That was also the infamous "Katie Vick" era.
You really think guys like
Brock Lesnar
Goldberg
Booker T
Rob Van Dam
Ric Flair
Eddie Guerrero
Chris Benoitwere carrying the era? Fuck no. They were good because they had in ring talent with little to know talent on the mic and got to work with other Great performesr IE: Angle, HHH, Taker etc. . No fucking way guys like Benoit ever carried their storylines. It was always carried by the guy he was feuding with. Goldberg sucked on the mic, Lesnar sucked on the mic(he's actuallya better persona in MMA than he ever was in WWE), Booker T, RVD sucked on the mic, Flair was good on the mic but was so past his prime it was not even funny.
I'll give you Undertaker, Jericho and Angle and to an extent HBK but HBK was ruined when they had him start jobbing to everyone including Hogan. Why the fuck did The Rock not have to job to Hogan yet HBK did? That was fucking bad move on WWE's part, expecially considering HBK was the only guy who sold that feud.
Triple H did carry that era. He was the legit superstar who could feud with everyone, carry every angle regardless of what it was and pull it off in spades. Take him out of that era and they've got a problem.
Guys like RVD and Booker T needed to be stopped because theyd' have just gotten the title for shits and giggles. Just because. Triple H did try to help put Benoit over and look how that worked. Benoit sucked and RVD and Booker T are argueably just as bad as Benoit so why would they devalue Triple H just to put guys over just because? You put guys over if they have the ability to take the ball and run. None of those guys did. Except maybe Lesnar who's heart wasn't ever really in it anyways.
Axl S wrote:Speaking of Orton and Triple H... Orton on his best heel run ever, has just won the Rumble, SHOULD, be going into WM25 Main Event and winning the title from HHH.... instead gets the belt at the next PPV in some stupid tag match thing...at Backlash.
Orton sucks. I'd rather watch paint dry
Okay but why do you think Orton sucks? Elaborate?
I know exactly why I find him boring, could rattle of the reasons right now, but I know he can be a lot better than he currently is.
You can't know if they have the ability to take the ball and run until they are given the oppurtunity to take the ball and run. And they can't be given that oppurtunity unless they are made to look like a big deal, and the way they do that is by putting people over.
Also HBK didn't go over Hogan, because Hogan refused to do the job to HBK, so Shawn oversold that match like hell. 
Also Booker was pretty good on the mic, not the best but good enough to carry a story if given the chance and he was really over!
Re: The Wrestling thread
If McMahon could make a guy like Orton with the mic skills of Cena and the attitude of CM Punk... he'd have it fucking made and he'd have a guy ready to go for years of top-tier matches.
Orton started off as a lazy, spoiled, "I'm a rock star" talent pushed way too quickly.
Somewhere along the line (I guess when Vince threatened to fire him), Orton picked it up, and has made TONS of improvements in-ring, so much to the point he doesn't even look like the same guy anymore.
CM Punk, as much as I love the guy, doesn't have main event. He doesn't. I know I seem pretty "pro-CM", but he'll never be more than a Jeff Hardy-type. An occasional title runner, but never a long-term main eventer.
Which makes us come back to Orton. He still seems a bit stiff on the mic. If they could get Orton to a CM Punk level (aka Austin), he's the only chance they have.
Bottom line: McMahon doesn't have anyone ready-made on the roster to carry the brand, and Taker is too beat up and too tired.
Re: The Wrestling thread
They made Punk's character rebel against this: "HHH doesn't like me. WWE is all about bodybuilding types and I can't get a push."
Seriously. After that fantastic shoot promo that had everybody talking, that's what they make him rebel against. They could have kept his heel qualities like Austin and have him attack everyone, or an anarchist and started trouble ike DX did. No, they basically made him a whiner.
IMO, Punk's character was the best in the run up to that shoot video. He should have been a maineventer then. Now they're trying to make him a face and their tearing apart everything that made him cool. He was an asshole. But a funny asshole. Now... He's turning into John Cena. When he came to the ring in the old pink and yellow Macho Man outfit and Bret Hart was the special referee (back when Punk was still a heel) and Bret could only count really slow, it was some of THE best and funniest TV WWE has had in a long time.
And why HHH HAD to get a clean win over him is beyond me, and shows everything that's wrong with wrestling. Shit, at least Kevin Nash dropped the title to Rey Mysterio when he was head booker at WCW. HHH would have never done that.
WWE is just boring right now.
