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Randall Flagg
 Rep: 121 

Re: US Politics Thread

buzzsaw wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

This things over. No Friday News Dump either. This is blowing up

How many times have you said this now???



This is my biggest issue.  We've been told relentlessly the past 3 years that Trump was corrupt and violating the sacred constitution, and would be impeached within hours.  None of it was accurate, and every single alarm was based off of a lie, or an incredible exaggeration/distortion on reality.  Any denial of said claims was assaulted as full fledged support of Trump.  Congressional leaders and former Intelligence chairs outright lied on national TV.  They made up stories we now know to be false.  Trump was accused of treason via conspiracy with Putin from every Democratic leader, and the former NSA and CIA chief who allowed our elections to be messed with on their watch.  There's never been a demand for accountability into our intel community, or DNC leadership who carelessly left their servers exposed.  Podesta was compromised through a phishing email, not some elaborate Russian hacker. 

Once again, Democratic leadership made outrageous claims that aren't supported by any evidence - that Trump threatened to withhold aide to Ukraine unless Biden was investigated.  This is absolutely false by any reading of the transcript.  Yet, leadership already launched an impeachment inquiry and plenty of yahoos in the media and in office made claims of the veracity of such a claim.  Then when said claim didn't manifest, it's full court press regardless.  Those that support these leaders, have echoed their warnings countless times, yet have never hesitated to question if the next accusation is accurate, are the greatest threat to our democracy.  Pelosi knows the count; she's not stupid.  She wouldn't say this shit if she didn't know a bunch of hyper partisan and misinformed voters foaming at the mouth for the next wonky claim, were willing to eat it up.  All this talk of accountability; where is the demand from the rational democrats to quiet the faux outrage?  Say what you will about Boehner, the guy held the tea party in line and worked with Obama.  He fucking resigned when the GOP went bonkers, while Pelosi is fully on board. 

I don't care about Biden in Ukraine.  Check my post history.  Never mentioned it once.  But how in the fuck can Biden using the office of the VP to end an investigation into his son be kosher, yet Trump making reference to it is somehow the greater wrong here?  It's 2016 all over again.  Secret hangar meetings, corrupt investigators that grant immunity to all witnesses before completing an unrecorded/documented interview on someone who objectively committed a felony, that destroyed evidence under subpoena, and the Democrats are mum.  They even accuse people of gawking at the hangar meeting as conspiracy nuts - "How dare you suggest the AG meeting privately with the husband of the accused in a hangar in middle of nowhere USA could look bad!".  Yet Trump attempting to end a bogus investigation Mueller testified under oath that no "collusion" occurred, be the biggest obstruction of Justice in US History?!?  Yet Clinton actually committing perjury and obstructing justice while in office, isn't an impeachable offense.  For real?  It's a total hypocrisy!  The left does what they accuse Trump of doing, and just hand waive it away.  It drives me bonkers.

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: US Politics Thread

misterID wrote:

Eh, I don't think this is enough to stick. If they go for impeachment it's going to draaaaaaaaaaaaag along for a long time. Does this have the stamina to actually make it to a vote? He didn't ask for anything ... But it's shady. The moment he asked for a favor really screwed him after talking about the missiles. But still, he's not telling him to do anything, even though it's implied. And the favor is over the 2016 election.

This is so murky.

PaSnow
 Rep: 203 

Re: US Politics Thread

PaSnow wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

Once again, Democratic leadership made outrageous claims that aren't supported by any evidence - that Trump threatened to withhold aide to Ukraine unless Biden was investigated.  This is absolutely false by any reading of the transcript.  Yet, leadership already launched an impeachment inquiry and plenty of yahoos in the media and in office made claims of the veracity of such a claim.

You're aware at the same time as the phone call took place, Trump was withholding $400 million in aid to Ukraine, right?  $400 million!


So you're saying that's a coincidence.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 121 

Re: US Politics Thread

PaSnow wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

Once again, Democratic leadership made outrageous claims that aren't supported by any evidence - that Trump threatened to withhold aide to Ukraine unless Biden was investigated.  This is absolutely false by any reading of the transcript.  Yet, leadership already launched an impeachment inquiry and plenty of yahoos in the media and in office made claims of the veracity of such a claim.

You're aware at the same time as the phone call took place, Trump was withholding $400 million in aid to Ukraine, right?  $400 million!


So you're saying that's a coincidence.

Have you seen this substantiated by anyone?  I’ve heard the rumor, but I also read the money was released before the call, and as the transcript showed, it wasn’t discussed at all. The claim, the reason for impeachment, was that Trump offered aide for dirt on Biden. That didn’t happen.

slcpunk
 Rep: 149 

Re: US Politics Thread

slcpunk wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

They'd be stupid to impeach over this.  The Senate will never support it - Graham has already came out saying so.  This was a nothing burger, once again.  I'm all ears for people who've read it to explain what happened that was illegal and improper.  I didn't see anything about demanding dirt for aide, as was claimed 24 hours ago.  So let's watch the goal post move once again.

I don't think you possess the maturity level or honesty to understand what is happening right now. The White House just did something similar prior to the release of the Mueller report. They got their hands on it first, modified it and then released it to the public. Just like Barr's four page summary of Mueller's report. The only difference is that in this one, it clearly shows criminality. It's 100% prima facie evidence.

Last time you idiots all came here to say it was nothing (based on Barr's false synopsis) and it turned out you were wrong. There were nearly a dozen instances of obstruction by trump. The report also concluded that he was open to accepting help from Russia and use it against Hillary (same as now.) Today you continue to lie about that outcome, because you're a liar I suppose?

It's also only one facet of the whistle-blower report, which is being reported this evening that Trump also tried to hide evidence of this call. In addition people who have read the report said it's staggering in its criminality and "explosive."

But really, even if nothing else came up (which there will) Trump asking a foreign country for help against a potential political rival in the 2020 election is something to get impeached for. It's not a "nothing burger", it's a crime. He's already admitted he did it, along wit Guiliani and changed his story on withholding military aid. He should be impeached, and frankly I'm already seeing cracks in the GOP. As we go down the road, I would not be surprised to see more say "Enough" of this criminal.

slashsfro
 Rep: 40 

Re: US Politics Thread

slashsfro wrote:
slcpunk wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

They'd be stupid to impeach over this.  The Senate will never support it - Graham has already came out saying so.  This was a nothing burger, once again.  I'm all ears for people who've read it to explain what happened that was illegal and improper.  I didn't see anything about demanding dirt for aide, as was claimed 24 hours ago.  So let's watch the goal post move once again.

I don't think you possess the maturity level or honesty to understand what is happening right now. The White House just did something similar prior to the release of the Mueller report. They got their hands on it first, modified it and then released it to the public. Just like Barr's four page summary of Mueller's report. The only difference is that in this one, it clearly shows criminality. It's 100% prima facie evidence.

Last time you idiots all came here to say it was nothing (based on Barr's false synopsis) and it turned out you were wrong. There were nearly a dozen instances of obstruction by trump. The report also concluded that he was open to accepting help from Russia and use it against Hillary (same as now.) Today you continue to lie about that outcome, because you're a liar I suppose?

It's also only one facet of the whistle-blower report, which is being reported this evening that Trump also tried to hide evidence of this call. In addition people who have read the report said it's staggering in its criminality and "explosive."

But really, even if nothing else came up (which there will) Trump asking a foreign country for help against a potential political rival in the 2020 election is something to get impeached for. It's not a "nothing burger", it's a crime. He's already admitted he did it, along wit Guiliani and changed his story on withholding military aid. He should be impeached, and frankly I'm already seeing cracks in the GOP. As we go down the road, I would not be surprised to see more say "Enough" of this criminal.

Andrea Mitchell (veteran political reporter) said that 30 GOP senators would vote to impeach Trump if this were private.  That is damning in itself.

slcpunk
 Rep: 149 

Re: US Politics Thread

slcpunk wrote:
PaSnow wrote:

Why's Guiliani involved in this?

He is NOT  a government employee or WH appointee. He asks Zarevesky speak to Guiliani at a later time.

No wonder Obama made the decision to wiretap. This guys out there makin deals off the record

What a disaster Guiliani is. He claimed the state department sent him over there for Trump. Huh? WTF is that guy on? Even the fox news lady took pause on that one.

Trump told Zelensky that Attorney General Barr and his own "personal attorney", Rudy Giuliani would coordinate this with him to get dirt on Biden. That's all kinds of fucked up.

It's also being reported tonight by ABC News that the Ukrainians understood in advance that Trump would only talk to them if they were willing to discuss Biden.

Either way, Trump will throw them BOTH under the bus, and there's a bus big enough to throw them all under. Today trump told the press to talk to Pence as well, since he also talked to Zelensky. Talk to Pence too... Don't forget about Pence!

slashsfro
 Rep: 40 

Re: US Politics Thread

slashsfro wrote:

That's not even the dumbest thing the Trump admin did today.  They fucking sent their talking points of the day to the Democrats by accident.

slcpunk
 Rep: 149 

Re: US Politics Thread

slcpunk wrote:
slashsfro wrote:

Andrea Mitchell (veteran political reporter) said that 30 GOP senators would vote to impeach Trump if this were private.  That is damning in itself.

Correct. This says quite a bit, and I believe we're at a tipping point. Ben Sasse has come forward and said this is very troubling, Romney the same. Pat Toomey said this was inappropriate and Rob Portman said it was "what he expected."

I watched Joe Walsh, Mark Sanford and Bill Weld call Trump a traitor last week on national TV and call out the GOP for canceling primaries in various states. This is what we're seeing in the public eye, not behind the scenes.

My guess is that there are many Republicans who secretly despise trump, but have stuck to the party line. When you have three Republicans who want to primary this guy, that says there is a shift happening in the party. Andrea Mitchell underscores that point.

slcpunk
 Rep: 149 

Re: US Politics Thread

slcpunk wrote:
misterID wrote:

Eh, I don't think this is enough to stick. If they go for impeachment it's going to draaaaaaaaaaaaag along for a long time. Does this have the stamina to actually make it to a vote? He didn't ask for anything ... But it's shady. The moment he asked for a favor really screwed him after talking about the missiles. But still, he's not telling him to do anything, even though it's implied. And the favor is over the 2016 election.

This is so murky.

Conspiracy is rarely if ever "I'll give you X for Z" over the phone, or in an email.

Conspiracy is often implied, and that's what sends people to prison. Trump's former lawyer, Cohen, pointed this out in his testimony before he went to the lock up himself. It's Trump's MO, and Trump did just that on this phone call, just like Cohen said he does.

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