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Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
Reasons I think the album is flopping in the US:
1) He waited too long.
2) Not enough people liked the first single, which gave a bad taste for the rest of the album.
3) The average music buying public didn't really know much about the album (and the new band), or cared, because GNR didn't seem to care enough to promote it.
4) The band doesn't have a face or identity. Except for the few things they see and read on the net, VH1 and G4. Sadly, its not always good, and there has been no one from this band to give "their" story... Or show it really as a band.
I think the sales showed only the people who were really interested in this album bought it. He didn't crack anywhere near the demographics that matter. The above points show the reason for that. When it comes down to it, I just don't think anyone outide of us cared.
I don't agree about the single. I actually thought it was pretty well received. It got major airplay and mostly an overall positive response. The reason this album is failing is more in line with your #'s 3 and 4. The public decided long ago that they didn't think THIS was GNR. People seem to think this happened overnight, but ever since they re-appeared with the 2001 lineup people refused to see them as GNR. If they released the album then it still wouldn't have been a huge success. Sure it would've sold more just due to the fact that more albums sold back in 2001 and we were only in the beginning stages of a declining economy. The guys on the album (Bucket, Ron, Tommy, etc.) are great musicians, but aside from Bucket they're all faceless, no pun intended. The only guy the general public cares to hear from is Axl and that's not his forte. I admittedly hoped that this would sell somewhere near the pace of Death Magnetic, but I guess those were just pipe dreams. Deep down I guess I knew the truth. I'm not even sure at this point if Axl showed up and did some interviews and announced a tour that sales would increase THAT much. And before people start with the reunion talk. Slash and Duff did plenty of promotion for Libertad and that didn't work out too well either, so I'm not sold that their inclusion would make a difference either. The interest in the Guns N' Roses brand name just isn't what it used to be, and it's been that way for quite some time now. Some people have to realize that and accept it for what it is. It's not 1992 anymore, I hate to tell you.
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
Great music never guarantees great sales, Buzz.
It may not fit a lot of peoples tastes, that might play a real big factor, but it has nthing to do with the album being bad or mediocre.
And if I remember right, this album got a lot of rave reviews... But I'm sure that the good reviews don't count and you guys will explain why only the negative reviews count 
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
Great music never guarantees great sales, Buzz.
It may not fit a lot of peoples tastes, that might play a real big factor, but it has nthing to do with the album being bad or mediocre.
And if I remember right, this album got a lot of rave reviews... But I'm sure that the good reviews don't count and you guys will explain why only the negative reviews count
Maybe not, but great music doesn't hurt sales either. Anyone that says the music is not a factor is only lying to themself. You love the album - I get that. A lot of other people don't like what they've heard so far whether through myspace or the radio. You can't discount that just because YOU think the album is great. YOU thinking it's great doesn't make it great.
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
misterID wrote:Reasons I think the album is flopping in the US:
1) He waited too long.
2) Not enough people liked the first single, which gave a bad taste for the rest of the album.
3) The average music buying public didn't really know much about the album (and the new band), or cared, because GNR didn't seem to care enough to promote it.
4) The band doesn't have a face or identity. Except for the few things they see and read on the net, VH1 and G4. Sadly, its not always good, and there has been no one from this band to give "their" story... Or show it really as a band.
I think the sales showed only the people who were really interested in this album bought it. He didn't crack anywhere near the demographics that matter. The above points show the reason for that. When it comes down to it, I just don't think anyone outide of us cared.
I don't agree about the single. I actually thought it was pretty well received. It got major airplay and mostly an overall positive response. The reason this album is failing is more in line with your #'s 3 and 4. The public decided long ago that they didn't think THIS was GNR. People seem to think this happened overnight, but ever since they re-appeared with the 2001 lineup people refused to see them as GNR. If they released the album then it still wouldn't have been a huge success. Sure it would've sold more just due to the fact that more albums sold back in 2001 and we were only in the beginning stages of a declining economy. The guys on the album (Bucket, Ron, Tommy, etc.) are great musicians, but aside from Bucket they're all faceless, no pun intended. The only guy the general public cares to hear from is Axl and that's not his forte. I admittedly hoped that this would sell somewhere near the pace of Death Magnetic, but I guess those were just pipe dreams. Deep down I guess I knew the truth. I'm not even sure at this point if Axl showed up and did some interviews and announced a tour that sales would increase THAT much. And before people start with the reunion talk. Slash and Duff did plenty of promotion for Libertad and that didn't work out too well either, so I'm not sold that their inclusion would make a difference either. The interest in the Guns N' Roses brand name just isn't what it used to be, and it's been that way for quite some time now. Some people have to realize that and accept it for what it is. It's not 1992 anymore, I hate to tell you.
I disagree, this album would have been HUGE in 2001 or 02. Probably even bigger if the MTV awards would have come off like Rio. The band, including Buckethead, was doing press. They gathered a lot of interest because of the band. Even the fact that this was a new band would have gathered a lot of press with all the old vs new things that would pop up. There would have been big fights over it. But this band has been around since 2002... They're not new anymore... No one really knows who's even in it, anymore. And that "new vs old" argument is pretty irrelevant now.
And its silly to think a reunion wouldn't be huge. It would. Not as big as some people might think, but it would get a lot of attention and that does equal into sales... Even more than great music, unfortunately.
The thing that hurt the band the most is that AXL WAITED TOO DAMN LONG. He missed his opportunity.
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
misterID wrote:Great music never guarantees great sales, Buzz.
It may not fit a lot of peoples tastes, that might play a real big factor, but it has nthing to do with the album being bad or mediocre.
And if I remember right, this album got a lot of rave reviews... But I'm sure that the good reviews don't count and you guys will explain why only the negative reviews count
Maybe not, but great music doesn't hurt sales either. Anyone that says the music is not a factor is only lying to themself. You love the album - I get that. A lot of other people don't like what they've heard so far whether through myspace or the radio. You can't discount that just because YOU think the album is great. YOU thinking it's great doesn't make it great.
Breaking news...
I don't think the album was great. Go read my review. But its wrong to say the album isn't good. So this isn't about ME or MY opinion. I'm saying there are a lot of reasons why this album isn't a success and it has nothing to do with the quality of the music.
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
Remember, if GnR pushed an extra 150k units first week, they would have been a reasonably close second to Kanye and suddenly the conversation changes. I firmly believe that a tour and some press would have allowed them to close the gap and stay in the top Ten longer than they did. So for me it is not about closing the deal with people who hate the album, but finding people who haven't made up their mind.
You have a valid point and I agree to it.
Some people always hated GNR. Amazing how people forget the negative and just see the sun shining in the past. GNR got a lot of shit back then to. Axl as well. A LOT. Little seperates flop from success in this matter. It sold decent enough considering one band member left, no promotion and a no-show from the main man himself.
- the_real_jessica
- Rep: 22
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
I still wonder whether it is a test or not..
On the public i mean.
Maybe it was put out to be tested on the fans, before the promotion is officially done some time later, next year.?
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
I think the sales showed only the people who were really interested in this album bought it... The public decided long ago that they didn't think THIS was GNR... And before people start with the reunion talk. Slash and Duff did plenty of promotion for Libertad and that didn't work out too well either, so I'm not sold that their inclusion would make a difference either. The interest in the Guns N' Roses brand name just isn't what it used to be, and it's been that way for quite some time now. Some people have to realize that and accept it for what it is. It's not 1992 anymore, I hate to tell you.
I disagree and start the reunion talk Libertad was a flop, Contraband was a flop (in GN'R terms) and CD is a flop (in GN'R terms) because people don't care about fake GN'Rs. They are uninterested in an Axlless GN'R-copy and a Slashless GN'R-copy as well. Only the hardcores buy these albums and even some of them refuse to pay for Slash's or axl's work (not to mention Izzy's and Duff's solo career). Look at Led Zeppelin, Page and Plant. Both had serious problems with selling their solo albums, because the public thinks they together are the real deal. Same goes for GN'R. Had GN'R stayed together, they'd be in the league of Metallica and AC/DC, with some albums selling worse, some selling better. I'm really unsure if a reunion would ever take place, or it won't go downhill because of the egos and lawyers, but I think a functioning classic-GN'R that releases an album only in every 5 years (to avoid killing each other ) would be huge. The big-big success of Greatest Hits showed it and tht was in 2004, not that long ago. The compilation was still in the top 100 a few months ago.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: Chinese Democracy Chart Positions Thread
Its a good album, just not a good GNR album. If AC/DC pulled out a Piano, or acoustic CD, people wouldn't buy it... Not because its not good, its just not what they want from a band like AC/DC. GNR fans are a fan of a certain type of music. That music is Hard Rock Music. In hard rock music, you can have awesome ballads, like CD has, but you have to have some balls out rockers too. Axl made a fine album, that most GNR fans DON'T Like. Fans of Queen and Elton John may love this album, but your average GNR fan doesn't. Now, Axl can make any type of music he wants, but it wasn't this style that got all the fans. We all know this. So its such drastic change from the original style which is more reason why after 14 years, he should have called this Axl Rose Band or whatever. It would be like the Rolling Stones releasing an electronica album. Yes, they have that right, but its not Rolling Stones style of music. That is why this album is failing. The old fans want a style only the old band could make. They are your base. They are who buys your album first. Then you get the new fans. Well, with no tour, promotion, or videos, there won't be any new fans to push the album.
