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- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: West Memphis three to be released
There won't be a lawsuit, they pled guilty in order to be released.
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: West Memphis three to be released
IRISH OS1R1S wrote:I couldn't disagree more, but Its something I'm not going to argue about. People have their views on it, I'm not going to try change anyones mind.
i know you've debated this on here before but i can't remember details.
i'd like you to present your disagreement cause all i can see is an outrageous & evil miscarriage of justice perpetrated by maniacal power-tripping neanderthals posing as prosecutors.
but i am open to hearing why you believe the 3 to be guilty - i've only watched Paradise Lost 1&2 so am by no means an expert on the matter but i don't recall ever seeing or hearing evidence as to how the 3 could have been guilty...
Some like to believe they were convicted because they wore black and listened to metallica 
but it was a bit more than that. Everything I have seen in the media has been so biased towards their innocence its was sickening. I have read all the case files which took months to get through, which showed me how much bs was being told in these so called "documentaries".
I guess if you got stars like Eddie Vedder and Johnny depp throwing your defense team wads of money anything is possibe. I personally believe more evidence was presented than that of the Casey Anthony trial, which is why two sets of jury in two seperate trials found them guilty.
Everyone nowadays is obsessed with DNA evidence, too much CSI if you ask me, truth is sometimes DNA is just not at the crime scene. Ted Bundy and Charles Manson would never have got convicted with that way of thinking. It seems compelling circumstantial evidence is no longer enough, sadly.
Heres just a few things off the top of my head but plenty more exists.
You should check out Damiens index 500 (his mental health history before the murders) at the bottom of the page to get an idea of the poor victimized kid that they just released.
1. Jessie Miskelley failed his polygraph.
2. Damien Echols failed his polygraph.
3. Jason Baldwin refused to take a polygraph
4. Jessie MissKelley confessed to Buddy Lucas the day after.
5. Jessie MissKelley confessed over 6 times that were documented.
6. Jessie MissKelley continued to confess to his own attorney in private 2 months after he was convicted.
7. Jessie Misskelley confessed to prosecuters.
8. Jessie MissKelley telling his own lawyer about the Evan Williams bottle he had thrown away just after the murders and then right away his lawyer leaves and lo and behold finds said whiskey bottle..
9. Reports of Jessie MissKelley continuing to confess for years after conviction.
10. Kim Floresca states about Jessie MissKelley confessing.
11. Michael Carson testimony that Jason Baldwin confessed to him.
12. Michael Carson passes a polygraph.
13. William Jones statement about Damien Echols confessing.
14. The softball girls testimony that they heard Damien Echols confess.
15. Michael Johnson wrote a letter to Brent Davis detailing that MissKelley confessed 8 months after conviction.
16. Damiens Echols 500 of motive or prior violent tendencies relevant to the case.
17. Jessie Hurst statement about Damien Echols confessing.
18. Kenneth Watkins statement when he said Damien Echols confessed to the crime to him.
19. Damien Echols alibi proven false.
20. Jason Baldwins alibi proven false.
21. Jessie Misskelly alibi proven false.
22. Damien Echols spotted near the crime scene close to the time of the murders with muddied clothes.
23. A necklace found in Damiens possesion with blood type consistent with that of jason and one of the victims.
24. Fibers found in the convicteds homes consistent with fibers found at the scene.
INDEX 500
001- 003: title pages.
004: Inquisitor table of contents.
Chronology of treatment
Admission to East Arkansas Regional Mental Health Center 05/07/92
Arkansas disability determination records
Admission to St. Vincent’s hospital and medical center. 09/02/92
Admission to Charter Hospital of Little Rock.
005: Inquisitor Title page for Chronology of Treatment.
006: Chronology of Treatment
007-010: Brief description of dates and circumstances of referrals, Disability determination and sessions whilst at institutions. (By Shettles)
011: Inquisitor Title page for section concerning Admission to East Arkansas Mental regional Mental health center 05/07/92
012-017: Communication –re Shettles and East Arkansas Mental health center. (Release of documents)
018: Referral letter regarding family to EARMC
019- 020: Mental health referral form attached to above letter (About Jack’s abuse of Michelle and Pam’s thoughts on Damien.)
“smarter than everyone else” and will verbalize this fact. He also reportedly has little regard for others and stated he feels people have no true feeling for each other; Their main purpose is to use and bring harm to others around them.
021: referral form re Damien.
022-023: copies of referral letters
024: copy of referral form.
025-026: Form
027: Poem by Damien:
I rule this inferno enthroned for eternity..
Sprits damned to rot amidst the brimstone fireballs. Eyes of the Dead watching from their living walls. Broken glass reflections show your flesh eaten away. Beyond the gates I’ll take you where the blood forever reigns.
028-029: Intake data sheet- Damien. 6/1/92 referral by driver, suicidal at detention center in Jonesboro. Suicide pact with Deanna.
Admits to having been suspended ? this past semester for inciting fights at school, starting small fires, cussing. States in one fight he almost gouged out the victim’s eyes. Denies feeling violent – sees it as release – “Sometimes I have to do this not because of being angry – sometimes I’m confused.”
Admits to substance abuse.
States he has one friend “a friend is one who would die for you—everyone is only interested themselves and what they want.”
030-033: Payment for treatment forms.
034: Termination form (7/24/92): referred to Charter- Little Rock
035-036: Printed form (hard to read) lists Damien’s details/ billing details and diagnosis.
037: Referral form – re to charter
038: Intake report (7/24/92):
Nails are clean + filed to points
Question of Satanic involvement.
039: Intake report (cont)
040: form- reopening of case. (12/16/92) ?
041: Mental Status Assessment (1/5/93) –with Domini now. Sherry Dockins.
Describes self as feeling “neutral/nothing” most of the time. Denies current suicidal/homicidal ideation- Reports history of self mutilation – cutting self with knives/? Last time was 3 months ago.
..that he tends to “trance out” when by himself he has done this since the 5th grade.
042: Mental Status Assessment (cont)
Reports he thinks a lot about life after death – “I want to go where the monsters go.”….
Reports history of alcohol/drug usage- coke, acid, pot, alcohol…..
Reports being harassed by local authorities as “they think I’m a Satanic leader.”….
Denies cult involvement….interested in witchcraft for past 8 years. He has tried (?) t steal energy from someone else and influence other minds with witchcraft. States that he was able to do these things.
Describes self as “pretty much hate the human race” relates that he feels people are in two classes – Sheep and wolves (wolves eat the sheep)
043: Supervision and Utilization case reviews Form (1/8/93) Sherry Dockins
044: Letter for release of files to Charter from Sherry Dockins.
045-047: Forms -Authorisation of above letter from Damien.
048: Individual Progress Note (1/13/93)
Damien reports one of his biggest problems that he would like to work on is being able to forgive others. When questioned about this he reports that he is very angry with family members and with other people that have “let him down”. He wants t be normal but feels that he has never been normal….
He discussed issues of power and control. He states that he could make things happen. He believes very much in magic. Damien stated “I don’t believe anything until it’s proven.”
(the arm numbing trance thing)
049: Individual Progress Note (1/13/93) (cont)
050: Individual Progress Note (1/19/93)
“Mom told me to apply for disability – what do you think?”
Reveals a history of abuse as he talked of how he was treated as a child.
Denies that this has influenced him stating “I just put it all inside” Describes this as more than just anger – like rage. Sometimes he does “blow up”.
Relates that when this happens the only solution is to “hurt someone”.
Damien reports being told at the hospital that he could be another “Charles Manson or Ted Bundy”
When questioned on his feelings he states, “I know I’m going to influence the world – people will remember me”.
051: Individual Progress Note (1/20/93)
He’s had three psychiatric hospitalizations. Each has been associated with anger, thoughts of killing others and thoughts of killing himself. He’s not currently suicidal or homicidal.
052: Individual Progress Note (1/25/93)
The theme of this poem centered around death and power.
Damien explained that he obtains his power by drinking blood of others. He typically drinks the blood of a sexual partner or of a ruling partner. This is achieved by biting or cutting. He states “it makes me feel like a god.” Damien describes drinking blood as giving him more power and strength. He remembers doing this as far back as 10….
He wants very much to be all powerful.
Damien relates that a spirit is now living with him. The spirit was put inside him last year. He indicates that a month ago the spirit decided to become part of him and he to become part of the spirit. This is reportedly a spirit of a woman who was killed by her husband. When questioned about how he feels with this spirit or what the difference is, Damien is able to relate that he feels stronger and more powerful with this spirit. He has not seen the spirit but does hear the spirit. In addition, he also reports conversations with demons and other spirits. This is achieved through rituals. He denies that he is satanic, seeing himself more as being involved in demonology.
053: Individual Progress Report (1/25/93) (cont)
054: Individual Progress report (2/5/93)
The name domini is cut into his arm
Relates feeling very angry yesterday when running into previous girlfriend- “I controlled it – I can do anything.”
055: Diagnostic Change of Status form. (2/11/93)
Depressive disorder
Other specified circumstances
056: Individual Treatment Plan
057: Disability determination request for records letter from Social Security 2/12/93
058: Disability determination 2nd request for records letter from Social Security 2/26/93
059: Letter from Sherry Dockins to Social Security 3/5/93
060: Letter from Sherry Dockins to Social Security 3/9/93
061: (bad copy) Physician’s progress report
Seems to enjoy people being concerned about him
Imprimine.
062: EARMHC Medication Record
Imprimine
063-064: Client information sheet (5/6/93)
065: Inquisitor Title page: Arkansas disability determination records.
066: Shettles letter requesting info from above. (7/6/93)
067-069: Authorisation forms concerning above.
070-072: Forms concerning Disability Determination.
073: Copy of no.060
074: Copy of no.048
075: Copy of no.049
076: Copy of no.050
077: Copy of no.051
078: Copy of no.052
079: Copy of no.053
080: Copy of no.054
081: Copy of no 055
082: Discharge Summary- Charter Hospital Little Rock (9/28/02)
Includes history of arrest, charges of sexual misconduct, sacrifice of baby, sucking blood of other inmate whilst at Craighead detention center, eat father.
On his time at craighead: the other peers were afraid of him. Damien denies that he rubbed the blood all over his face.
083: Discharge Summary (cont)
His effect was extremely flat.
He did admit to sucking blood out of the peer’s neck. He related that the peer had hurt his neck, and he subsequently sucked the blood.
He denied false perceptions including illusions, depersonalization, distortion of bdy images, and ideas of reference. There was no evidence of auditory or visual hallucinations. There was no evidence of delusions.
He exhibits extremely poor judgement and has absolutely no insight into his illness.
084: Discharge Summary (cont)
He was started on his Imipramine 50 mg, 1 tablet, p.o., q.h.s. he was taking that medication prior to admission. While in the hosipital, Impramine was increased to 100mg, 1 tablet, p.o., q.h.s.
His problems included bizarre and unusual behaviour.
He did not demonstrate bizarre and unusual behaviour with exception on one occasion, he did bite a male peer; however this was in a fight type manner.
He was not considered a danger to others at the time of his.. (cont on 085)
085: Discharge Summary (cont)
discharge.
086: Admission to Charter – Psychiatric evaluation. (9/14/92)
Includes same info as in discharge summary no. 082. but has diff section at end.
PAST PSYCHIATRIC HISTORY
1. Charter Hospital
2. St. Vincent’s Hospital Oregon
087: Admission to Charter (cont) –info found in discharge notes too.
088: Admission to Charter (cont)
JUSTIFICATION FOR ADMISSION
1. Bizarre and unusual behaviour (blood sucking)
2. Depressed mood.
3. Threatening others.
089: Admission to Charter (cont)
090: Charter report (part of admission?): History and Physical
He has required n medicines for his asthma for the last two years. He says he has had borderline hypertension but takes no medicine for this. He has migraines by history but currently takes no medicine. He has a history of “palpitations”, and these are asymptomatic and require no medications as well.
091: Charter report: History and Physical (cont)
092: Discharge Summary Charter (6/25/92)
About Jonesboro detention center.
Reportedly, Damien and his girlfriend were going to have a baby and then sacrifice the child. Damien denied this type of behavior. There was also a question of his involvement with Satanism. Damien, however, indicated that he was not involved with Satanism, but witchcraft. Supposedly, Damien chased a younger child with an ax and attempted to set a house on fire. He denied this behaviour. He reported that his girlfriend’s family reported this so that they could get him in trouble. He was also accused of beating a peer up at school….
He said prior to admission he did attempt t enucleate a peer’s eye at school. He was suspended subsequently from school. He was suspended on seven different occasions during that school year. He related that he was suspended on one occasion, because he set a fire in his science classroom and also would walk off on campus on several occasions. …. He has been accused of terroristic threatening.
093: Discharge Summary (cont)
Staff was quite concerned as they noticed that he was meditating in his room in a bizarre and unusual fashion. He also drew numerous pictures of witchcraft type symbols. He also wrote unusual poems.
094: Discharge Summary (cont)
095: Confidential Psychological Report (6/8/92)
096: Confidential Psychological Report (cont)
He appears to have a rather distorted view of himself and life.
097: Confidential Psychological Report (cont)
098: Confidential Psychological Report (cont)
099: Confidential Psychological Report (cont)
100: Confidential Psychological Report (cont)
101: Confidential Psychological Report (cont)
(1) Depressive disorder
(2) Bipolar disorder
102: St. Vincent Hospital & Medical Center Medical Record Report (09/04/92)
History, Physical Exam and discharge summary.
Admitted………..through the Emergency room because of the alleged threat to the parents.
103: Above cont
His efforts at self harm may be seen more as a manipulation to escape responsibility for a wide variery of behaviours which have got him into difficulty with the law.
104: St. Vincent Emergency Room Report (9/2/92)
He apparently has ahd thoughts of harming himself by his report tto family members, even though he denies that. He has talked about drinking lye or some type of bleach that would kill himself, he has also tld his sister that he won’t be around much longer. The parents are concerned that he is also into Satanism or devil worship.
The patient denies suicidal or homicidal ideation at this time, however, in talking with family members, they state that he made it quite clear that he had thoughts of harming other people, i.e. was going to cut the throat of his mother and has said so in the past and also apparently made some verbal threats to his father here at St. Vincent Hospital even.
105: Above cont.
Father state that he apparently has sniffed propane, glue, gasoline and almost every ther drug that is possible, but he denies that, especially over the last four months.
106: St. Vincent Hospital – Dept of psych nursing admission 9/1/92
Handwritten.
107: above cont
108: DDS Form
109: DDS Form
110: DDS Form
I have to go to the mental health center once a week
111: DDS Form/Interview..response written by Damien.
Some of Damien’s responses:
Having nightmares
No, he hates me (ref to stepfather)
I am a sociopath.
112: DDS Form (cont)
113: DDS Form (cont)
114: DDS Form (cont)
115: DDS Form (cont)
116: DDS Form (cont)
117: DDS Form- Vocational report
Lists Damien’s work exp.
118: Above cont
119: Above cont
120: Above cont
121: Above cont
122: Above cont
123: DDS Disability report- Form
124: DDS- Info about your medical records- Form
125: Above cont
126: Above cont
127: DDS Info about education – Form
128: DDS- inf about work – form
129: DDS form
130: DDS Interviewers summation of interview
131: DDS form
132: Inquisitor Title Page: Admission t St. Vincent’s hospital and Medical center (09/02/92)
133: Inquisitor request for records letter
134: Letter from St.Vincent’s to Glori Shettles – enclosed reports.
135: Above cont- billing info
136: St. Vincent’s Diagnosis summary
Short.
137: St. Vincent’s Admission Report (9/2/92)
138: Above cont
139: Medical record Report
140: Medical record Report (cont)
141: above cont?
142: Copy of no.104
143: Above cont
144: Copy of no.106
145: Physician’s Progress Record: Social Work Note
Brought to ER by mother and natural father because pt has been ? depressed & has been making statements daily that he was going to kill himself or others.
Dad says that Damien has been sniffing gasoline & that at dinner table tonight he talks about drinking a bottle of bleach…
Pt told sister that he would be killing himself in the next 3 days, & has made threats to kill himself by hanging w/bed sheet or tying socks together and told grandmother today that he would cut his mother’s throat.
146: Physician’s Progress Record: Patient Care Conference/Nursing Treatment Plan
(9/2/92)
Basic outline of all people Damien will see whilst at St. Vincent’s.
Plus (handwritten at bottom): Parents visited in ? he stated visit did not go well, he was tearful and would not discuss visit other than to say, “I no longer have parents.” Other staff overheard him begging them to take him home. (unreadable)…. They refused. He cont. to deny suicide ideation but appeared depressed & would not ? further. He did not attend ? & should be encouraged ? ? treatment.
147: Physicians Progress Record: Testing 9/2/92
Includes reading, maths, language, written sample, science.
148: Physicians Progress Record: (continued physician progress note- late entry) (9/2/92)
He appears to be an individual who passively provokes anxiety in others including actual petty criminal behaviour, now mixed up with suicidal threats entitling him to psychiatric treatment.
He is not sucidal, but rather is in disagreement about living in Oregon and on this basis pines for Arkansas and his friends.
Handwritten: “I’m the only person who stands up to my Dad. My Mom just cries but I don’t stand for him pushing me around. I don’t want anything to do [with] either one of them. I just want to be on my own from here on out. I’m not suicidal, that’s their way of trying t keep me in a hospital & away from my friends & girlfriend.”….
His plan is to cash his last pay check & return to Arkansas by bus where he states friends family have agreed to let him live [with] them. He plans to contact local probation.
149: Physicians Progress Record: (continued physician progress note) (9/4/92)
His return to Arkansas will be facilitated and his discharge will be conditional upon proper arrangements made by the probation officer in Washington County connecting with the probation officer in his home in Arkansas.
Nursing Progress note:
Problem #2: Discharge Planning.
Patient is scheduald to be discharged today between 3 and 4.00pm., at which time his mther will be in to pick him up….. The mother was notified by phne that Damien could be discharged today, and she will make arrangements with the bus ticket and make arrangements with Arkansas authorities.
150: Physician’s Progress Record: Social Service Assessment- Initial (9/4/92)
Assessment with Pam and Joe- not Damien.
Briefly, Pam stated that she has had difficulty with Damien since he was 10 years old. He always tended to be an angry child and somewhat difficult to manage, particularly through his adolescent years. She is convinced that he is into activities, such as witchcraft and is very concerned about the quality of friends that he developed while living in Arkansas. For this reason, she felt coming to Oregn would be a new beginning for him….
Because of the circumstances that precipitated the hospitalization and Damien’s threats, particulary towards his father and of course his mother, both parents do not feel that they wish to have him return to their home. They are frightened of him and what he can do, not only to them but to other children that reside in the home (2 others)
Damien does not want to remain in Oregon. He wishes to return to Arkansas
151–155 : MMPI Scoring Program- test. 9/2/92
156-157: Physician’s Order Record (9/1/92)
158: Medication Record.
159: Graphic Chart
160: Blank page
161: Admission Form stating clothes and jewellery worn. (9/1/92)
162: Emergency dept triage and nursing care record (9/1/92)
163-165: Patient Database- Young Adult Program, Question sheet.
Damien ticks applicable emotions and answers questions.
Cold and not very emotional
A leader
Bored easily
Quick tempered
Feel depressed.
Also answers questions about parents. (mother is loving, father is stupid yet warm and affectionate.)
166: Blank page
167: repeat of 163
168: continuance of above question sheet
Q.List any street drugs, such as marijuana, cocaine, speed that you have used, frequency, how much
A.Marijuana, speed, acid, gas
169: Inquisitor Title Page: Admission to Charter Hospital of Little Rock (06/01/92)
170: Charter Hospital Summary Index
6-1-92 Admitted to inpatient status.
6-19-92 Out on pass
6-21-92 Return from pass
6-25-92 Discharged.
171: Copy of no.092
172: Copy of no.093
173. Copy of no.094
174: Discharge Form- billing.
175: Arkansas Dept of Human Services –certification of need
Damien was reportedly involved in witchcraft and Satanism. Damien has demonstrated intermittent explosive behaviour (attempted to enucleate a peer)
Reason for Emergency Admission:
1. Fire-Setting behaviour by history.
2. Potential danger to property
3. Excessive irritability and anger that is potentially dangerous and persistant
4. Involvement in bizarre &unusual behavior.
176: Form- change from Mid South to Charter. (6/1/92)
Don’t want to send to mid-south – girlfriend is there now –wants to change court order to charter.
Caller information – Jerry Driver
177: Form billing
178: Adolescent Services Clinical Assessment Form
(Handwritten all over form)
Wet toilet paper roll threw it against a light bulb it exploded started a fire rolled (?) himself in a blanket and ?.......was bored.
Verbal threats to others: to kill people when he gets upset.
Rebellious/defies family authority: suspended 7 times
179: Form- voluntary admission.
180: Form–admission agreement
181: Form-Advance directive acknowledgment.
182: Form-Family Confidentiality Statement
183: Form- Consent to participate in Human Sexuality Group
184: Form- Consent to Group Videotape
185: Form- Adventure Ropes Course consent
186: Admission Psychiatric Evaluation (6/2/92)
Damien presented for admission accompanied by his probation officer. He was described as having suicidal ideation for two weeks prior to admission. He indicated that he ran away with his girlfriend because her parents forbade her t see him anymore……
Damien admits to a history of violence
reasons for hospitalization: homicidal, manic depression, drug abuse, socio pathic, suicidal, shizophrenia, alcohol abuse
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: West Memphis three to be released
YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I went to a Black Flag concert to help fund this to happen YEARS ago. Great, great news.
The prosecutors don't want to pay the millions they would have to shell out otherwise. Shitty move, but their freedom is worth it. They can still come back and get the ruling overturned and sue the state and police. It's happened before. This is just a way, like Axlin pointed out, that the state doesn't have to admit they were wrong. There will be a big settlement.
And there's no way Mark Byers will ever be prosecuted for this.
Happy day
Actually Byers is no longer a suspect in supporters eyes, infact he is one of the heroes of the supporters of the three now, no they seem to have moved on to one of the other fathers now, this time its Terry Hobbs who is the killer.
To think I actually believed this shit when I watched those movies. 
Re: West Memphis three to be released
Byers is a suspect in my eyes. Any man that will have his teeth pulled out after bite marks are found on his dead stepson's ass is a suspect. Period.
As far as that list of confessions above goes, anyone can be coerced into confessing anything.
There has never been a proper time line established which would show they murdered those boys which is why so many people always thought they were innocent. Prosecution said it was a "slam dunk" case yet all they ever did was toss up air balls. Had this case been prosecuted anywhere else it would have been laughed out of court.
The crime scene itself proved their innocence. It wasn't some random, run of the mill satanic ritual. The murders were rooted in domestic violence as the majority of the attack was aimed at one boy and the other two just happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. The three teens had no reason to be obsessed with that one particular boy to the point of venting that much rage upon him. It was either a father, stepfather, other relative, or an older homosexual man that no one knew yet was fascinated with that particular boy.
Re: West Memphis three to be released
And I think that Irish is also leaving out how all of their confessions were "potentially" coerced, included one of which who was clinically considered mentally retarded - but the cops still grabbed a confession.
I also think Irish is not taking into consideration, and take it from someone who's been around ALOT of Psychology people, ALOT of Criminal Justice people, and someone who has studied both quite deeply - that Interrogators all the time coerce confessions out of suspects - it's what they are trained to do. I'm not knocking them. But many times they will say simple things like "why don't we just cut around the bull, save you and me time, and you tell us what happened". To a TEENAGER, that means "if I just admit what I did, they'll let me go". Trust me.
In a murder case, that is exactly what you DO NOT do when trying to get a confession and solve a murder.
Irish is also not taking into consideration that despite the boys looking "less than innocent" shall we say, that none of the boys could ever nail down the crime scene, without being lead by investigators. That right there proves innocence, or that all three were brilliant Hannibal Lector-like 'evil on two feet' like Dr. Loomis would say. Which none of them are - including Echols.
Lyrics/poems prove absolutely nothing of motive or intent either. Hell i've got completed, unrecorded songs stashed away, that could easily be manipulated in a murder trial. And all it is is GN'R-esque masochistic-lite rock shit.
Which Echols himself admitted to.
Where the West Memphis Three screwed themselves, mainly Echols (for which he later admitted), was how "dickish" he acted during the whole thing. I Have No Clue What Irish Is Talking About With The Media Making Them Out To Be Innocent From The Beginning. That's not how I remember it. I remember initial coverage, ala Casey Anthony, making them look guilty as hell, and replaying Echols smart-ass smirks during the trial over and over, and Echols treating the whole thing like a big joke, and basically spitting the face of the justice system, and smiling afterwards.
What he was was a stupid ass punk, who hadn't matured. Instead he was painted as evil - which he was not.
Nobody is saying the prosecution didn't bust their ass on this case. They did. But the investigators - DIDN'T. This wasn't Rick Hunter and Dee Dee McCall on their next homicide case. This was Enos & Cletus from Dukes of Hazzard trying to solve a murder together, and it was an utter joke.
Alot of people put alot of work on this case on the prosecution/investigator side... problem is - they spent all their time in the wrong place.
They got it wrong, plain and simple.
Even if you think the evidence is THERE, there is ABUNDANT "Reasonable Doubt", to let these "kids" (then) walk.
jmho
Re: West Memphis three to be released
Excellent point on the mentally disabled boy. I had forgot about that and many other aspects of the case. I need a refresher course. That boy NEVER should have even been placed in a position to where he could potentially confess. At least not without an army of lawyers surrounding him advising him on a course of action and a hearing on whether or not he could even comprehend what was going on.
But as we've said, it was Mayberry, Dukes of Hazzard,etc. Them there devil worshipers must be burned at the stake no matter what!!
Biggest cluster fuck of the case is how Andy, Barney, and Gomer considered that creek the crime scene, which calls into question EVERYTHING they had to say on the case. Even Helen Keller knew that was a dump site.
Re: West Memphis three to be released
misterID wrote:YES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I went to a Black Flag concert to help fund this to happen YEARS ago. Great, great news.
The prosecutors don't want to pay the millions they would have to shell out otherwise. Shitty move, but their freedom is worth it. They can still come back and get the ruling overturned and sue the state and police. It's happened before. This is just a way, like Axlin pointed out, that the state doesn't have to admit they were wrong. There will be a big settlement.
And there's no way Mark Byers will ever be prosecuted for this.
Happy day
Actually Byers is no longer a suspect in supporters eyes, infact he is one of the heroes of the supporters of the three now, no they seem to have moved on to one of the other fathers now, this time its Terry Hobbs who is the killer.
To think I actually believed this shit when I watched those movies.
I never said Byers was guilty. And since you want to go there, I'll go there...
Misskelley not only was borderline retarded, but all of his "confessions" were completely WRONG and impossible to have occurred the way he stated. Nice that you left that out. And that police LIED to Miskelly about failing his polygraph (he was only deceptive about smoking pot) and that it was determined that his confession WAS cohearsed. Both of these things were kept from the jury during the trial. I really got a kick out of DNA evidence doesn't matter now, because CSI makes it more important than it is. And did you know Damien's polygraph results have NEVER been found or shown to anyone? Hmmmm.
Michael Carson's credibility was destroyed by Joyce Cureton and Paul Duncan and that not only Justin would have never confessed to him, but Jason along with other inmates hated him and that Carson had a reputation for making things up, such as being Justin's bodyguard. And William Jones didn't get a SINGLE thing right about Damien's "confession" and couldn't even get the right day he was supposed to have confessed to him. And he later retracted his statement and said he was only telling the cops what they wanted to hear... Nice you forgot to mention that. too.
And the girls who "overheard" Damien confess: One girl said that Damien telepathically told her to shut up, using mind powers to talk inside her head, and threatetned her. One girl said that one boy (not involved in the case) said that he and Damien killed the boys. One said that Damien liked killing virgins. And the softball girls (children) who said that Damien confessed to them couldn't get their stories straight about what he said, what day he said it, who he said it to, or who was there, or if he actually told them or if they heard it from someone else. Nice.
The person who placed Damien at the scene was Narlene Hollingsworth who had horrible credibility; known as a liar and a gossip, and was contradicted by her son who was also supposedly a witness. Not to mention she said she saw Damien walking with another boy (who she was actually TRYING to incriminate), but Prosecutors tried to say she was mistaken and he was really walking with Jason not the boy she orginally said was with him... Also they kept changing their stories about what clothes Damien and the other boy were wearing. But they could tell he had mud on him, just that they couldn't agree if he was wearing a bright multi colored shirt, Metalica shirt, black pants, or grey jeans... Her own family called her a liar.
The fibers found in Damien's home WERE NOT THE SAME. The prosecution witness who examined the fibers even said it was inconclusive. The state lab only said that one strand of red fiber "could" be similar to fiber that matched one of the boys. The FBI has stated that fibers are not fingerprints and are inherently unreliable.
The knife found? It was a known fishing spot and place where people dropped their junk. And the knife was NEVER proven to be used in the murders, or to belong to Damien. And in fact the knife has been now ruled out of the murder, seeing that the blade had a serrated edge and it's been determined that no serrated edge knife had been used in the crimes, which was previously thought.
The blood on the necklace was identified as both Damien's and Jason Baldwin's, the latter sharing the same blood type as one of the victims, Steve Branch. It was a necklace that Damien and Jason both shared.
But yes, their alibis were false. They were created with help of their families... you know, for some strange reason they were afraid the police were going to try and railroad them.
And Damien's mental/medical history absolutely ties him to the crimes? If the case was as strong as you think, the prosecution wouldn't have agreed to their release.
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: West Memphis three to be released
And I think that Irish is also leaving out how all of their confessions were "potentially" coerced, included one of which who was clinically considered mentally retarded - but the cops still grabbed a confession.
I also think Irish is not taking into consideration, and take it from someone who's been around ALOT of Psychology people, ALOT of Criminal Justice people, and someone who has studied both quite deeply - that Interrogators all the time coerce confessions out of suspects - it's what they are trained to do. I'm not knocking them. But many times they will say simple things like "why don't we just cut around the bull, save you and me time, and you tell us what happened". To a TEENAGER, that means "if I just admit what I did, they'll let me go". Trust me.
In a murder case, that is exactly what you DO NOT do when trying to get a confession and solve a murder.
No evidence exists that any of the 6 of the confessions were coerced, I don't really see why Jessie would confess to his own attorneys while in private and while they are pleading with him not to, unless of cource you need to in order for them to be innocent.
Irish is also not taking into consideration that despite the boys looking "less than innocent" shall we say, that none of the boys could ever nail down the crime scene, without being lead by investigators. That right there proves innocence, or that all three were brilliant Hannibal Lector-like 'evil on two feet' like Dr. Loomis would say. Which none of them are - including Echols.
You seem to be referring to the first confession which I have studied alot. In that confession Jessie was not trying to confess but lessen his involvement which is why it doesn't add up, regardless he still knew things that noone would have known. Jessie admitted to this in later confessions.
Lyrics/poems prove absolutely nothing of motive or intent either. Hell i've got completed, unrecorded songs stashed away, that could easily be manipulated in a murder trial. And all it is is GN'R-esque masochistic-lite rock shit.
Which Echols himself admitted to.
You are absolutlely right they do not prove motive or intent, but if you read the entire index 500 you would see that, his threat to kill his own mother, his desire to sacrifice his own child, attacking a peer and sucking his blood, his parents so afraid they didn't want him at home for fear of what he could do to them or his siblings show his character which is why the prosecutin presented it.
The West Memphis Three screwed themselves, mainly Echols (for which he later admitted), was how "dickish" he acted during the whole thing. I Have No Clue What Irish Is Talking About With The Media Making Them Out To Be Innocent From The Beginning. That's not how I remember it. I remember initial coverage, ala Casey Anthony, making them look guilty as hell, and replaying Echols smart-ass smirks during the trial over and over, and Echols treating the whole thing like a big joke, and basically spitting the face of the justice system, and smiling afterwards.
I never said the media made them out to be innocent from the beginning. It began after Paradise Lost was aired and the lies and distortion has never stopped since.
What Was was a stupid ass punk, who hadn't matured. Instead he was painted as evil - which he was not.
Yes, because little punks like to stomp a dog to death and pour battery acid on it in order that he can take its skull as some sort of trinket.
Nobody is saying the prosecution didn't bust their ass on this case. They did. But the investigators - DIDN'T. This was Rick Hunter and Dee Dee McCall on their next homicide case. This was Enos & Cletus from Dukes of Hazzard trying to solve a murder together, and it was an utter joke.Alot of people put alot of work on this case on the prosecution/investigator side... problem is - they spent all their time in the wrong place.
They got it wrong, plain and simple.
Many suspects were questioned before the three, there is a reason after a month they arrested those boys, it was because they had got many calls and statements from many people, including Jessie's uncle and Damiens probation officer. They didn't just happen on them.
Even if you think the evidence is THERE, there is ABUNDANT "Reasonable Doubt", to let these "kids" (then) walk.
jmho
I disagree, but thats why I'm responding. 
I never said Byers was guilty. And since you want to go there, I'll go there...
I also never said you did, you mentioned him, I just was letting you know he is no longer a suspect in the supporters of the threes eyes.
Misskelley not only was borderline retarded, but all of his "confessions" were completely WRONG and impossible to have occurred the way he stated. Nice that you left that out. And that police LIED to Miskelly about failing his polygraph (he was only deceptive about smoking pot) and that it was determined that his confession WAS cohearsed. Both of these things were kept from the jury during the trial. I really got a kick out of DNA evidence doesn't matter now, because CSI makes it more important than it is. And did you know Damien's polygraph results have NEVER been found or shown to anyone? Hmmmm.
First off Jessie was not borderline retarded, his IQ was 72 during the trial, and he was shown to be malingering on that test as his IQ test a few months before the trial was in the low 80s. This is a prime example of smoke and mirrors by the defense that didn't hold up. He was only deceptive about smoking in his polygraph is another lie http://callahan.8k.com/images2/jm_polygraph.jpg
The judge ordered the first confession inadmissable and instructed them to do another which they did and the judge accepted. The confession was never detrmined coerced, if it was it would not have been entered into trial.
Damiens polygraph never been found is yet another lie http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/depoly.html
Again I never said DNA didn't matter, what I'm saying is some crime scenes just do not have any.
Michael Carson's credibility was destroyed by Joyce Cureton and Paul Duncan and that not only Justin would have never confessed to him, but Jason along with other inmates hated him and that Carson had a reputation for making things up, such as being Justin's bodyguard. And William Jones didn't get a SINGLE thing right about Damien's "confession" and couldn't even get the right day he was supposed to have confessed to him. And he later retracted his statement and said he was only telling the cops what they wanted to hear... Nice you forgot to mention that. too.
I didn't forget to mention anything, I'm on a GNR site answering a question asked by Johndivney, I'm not writing a book, although it kind of feels like it 
. Carson was not destroyed and was found credible at the trial, maybe in the eyes of those that believe them to be innocent, but not by me or 24 jurors. Williams statement was never used at trial.
And the girls who "overheard" Damien confess: One girl said that Damien telepathically told her to shut up, using mind powers to talk inside her head, and threatetned her. One girl said that one boy (not involved in the case) said that he and Damien killed the boys. One said that Damien liked killing virgins. And the softball girls (children) who said that Damien confessed to them couldn't get their stories straight about what he said, what day he said it, who he said it to, or who was there, or if he actually told them or if they heard it from someone else. Nice.
Again you are wrong, the girl never said he spoke to her telepathically, she said he gave her a look as if he was saying shut up and she got scared.The day was not in question either as they new from a game they were at that day in which they immediately ran to tell their mom, which reported it to the police and also testified to it.
The person who placed Damien at the scene was Narlene Hollingsworth who had horrible credibility; known as a liar and a gossip, and was contradicted by her son who was also supposedly a witness. Not to mention she said she saw Damien walking with another boy (who she was actually TRYING to incriminate), but Prosecutors tried to say she was mistaken and he was really walking with Jason not the boy she orginally said was with him... Also they kept changing their stories about what clothes Damien and the other boy were wearing. But they could tell he had mud on him, just that they couldn't agree if he was wearing a bright multi colored shirt, Metalica shirt, black pants, or grey jeans... Her own family called her a liar.
She said she seen Damien and his girlfriend (not another boy) and the prosecution did try to say she was mistaken and say it was Jason, she always said he was in black, there was confusion what logo was on the tshirt. Two other family members were in the car with her who also seen him.
The fibers found in Damien's home WERE NOT THE SAME. The prosecution witness who examined the fibers even said it was inconclusive. The state lab only said that one strand of red fiber "could" be similar to fiber that matched one of the boys. The FBI has stated that fibers are not fingerprints and are inherently unreliable.
They were consistent, I admit my mistake to say they were the same, your answer of the FBI saying they are not fingerprints and thus unreliable is true, they were of the same type as those found in his home.
The knife found? It was a known fishing spot and place where people dropped their junk. And the knife was NEVER proven to be used in the murders, or to belong to Damien. And in fact the knife has been now ruled out of the murder, seeing that the blade had a serrated edge and it's been determined that no serrated edge knife had been used in the crimes, which was previously thought.
The knife was never presented as the murder weapon it was presented as consistent with some of the wounds. It was also never determined that no such knife was used as there was never a retrial, and that determination came from paid experts for the defense team that came to that conclusion after looking at photos of the wounds, instead of the actual coroner that examined the bodies.
The blood on the necklace was identified as both Damien's and Jason Baldwin's, the latter sharing the same blood type as one of the victims, Steve Branch. It was a necklace that Damien and Jason both shared.
The blood on the knife was only determined as the same type as Damien, Jasons and one of the victims it was too degraded to produce DNA results.
But yes, their alibis were false. They were created with help of their families... you know, for some strange reason they were afraid the police were going to try and railroad them.
You would think out of three innocent people atleast one could come up with a valid alibi, instead of making 3 seperate ones up that were all proven to be false.
And Damien's mental/medical history absolutely ties him to the crimes? If the case was as strong as you think, the prosecution wouldn't have agreed to their release.
His medical history doesn't tie him to the crimes and isn't intended to, it was to show his character make up. I think after 18 years the prosecutions case had weakened due to witness's passing away, evidence being lost and the never endeing money train that funded the defense team, not to mention the political gain of having that huge supporter group throwing a vote their way when the need arises.
Heres the thing.
I didn't want to discuss this because I have spoke to enough supporters to know no matter what they are told, they are innocent no matter what. I thought they were innocent too and most sites I checked out are run by pro innocent people so you get their interpretation of the trials. I eventually came across http://callahan.8k.com/documents_az.html which has the entire trial transcripts and documents along with latter evidence that wasn't presented at trial. It has no message board or anyone telling you what was said, it just has the facts plain and simple.
It can take months to read, but I wanted the truth so I put the effort in.
Now I said I wasn't going to debate it and try change anyones minds, I realise from experience its futile. I have my thoughts and you have yours and thats fine.
You guys may not agree with me, but I have spents a very long time studying this case and am strong in my belief they are guilty.
Re: West Memphis three to be released
You are not taking into account recent findings in the case, or the context. And you're acting like all the groups on the internet are all pro-wm3, when that is absolutely not the case. There are hardened groups on the net who put out their own skewed facts and refuse to accept anything other than the boys being guilty. I can think of a few and one specificaly that advertises http://callahan.8k.com
And that was not Damien's official polygraph transcript. His results have never been found. They went off the recollection of the person who did the test as the results. It was not a full, official transcript.
The alibi thing makes no sense.
It has been stated MANY times that Misskelley's confession WAS cohearsed. And an IQ of 72 is borderline mental retardation. And if it is actually in the low 80's that still shows mental deficiency.
The Arkansas State Lab said the fibers DID NOT match, ruling it inconclusive, only a single red fiber was "similar."
You're right, it was a girl, not a boy. Narlene, who said she spotted Damien at the scene had a history of lying and the nicest thing said about her character was that she liked to "Exaggerate." The only one who cooberated her story without contradicting her, like her son did, was her daughter, who repeated what her mother said. The other people in the vehicle said they only saw 2 figures and couldn't say who they were, or what they wore, because they only glimpsed them. Her own family said she was a liar. And that she claimed to have psychic abilities and "knew things" about people. She also claimed she saw and talked to the victims that day and told them they needed to go home. The clothes she said they wore that day were wrong... A common occurance with her. 
The soft ball girls didn't know whether he confessed to them or they overheard him, that he was bragging or threatening them, etc... And you have to understand the girls ages were very young, rumors were already swirling about Damien. One of the girls said she screamed at him asking if he killed those three boys. I could actually buy him saying yes as a joke.
The girl said he talked to her in her mind when he watched her. Another one said Damien showed up at her bedroom window and threatened her... Which started out as a dark figure, then turned into Damien.
The experts that looked over the wounds of the boys involving the knife pointed out that the medical examiner, who did a shitty job from the start, never took several things into consideration, including the stretching of skin that would occur if a knife was used.
"Carson was not destroyed and was found credible at the trial, maybe in the eyes of those that believe them to be innocent, but not by me or 24 jurors."
His credibility was awful. He was never anyones bodyguard like he claimed and no one in the jail trusted him. But of course, since the jurors said it was true it must be true. *Waits for the Casey Anthony mob to show up*
THERE IS A REASON WHY THEY DIDN'T WANT ANOTHER TRIAL. THEY WOULD NOT HAVE WON.
- IRISH OS1R1S
- Rep: 59
Re: West Memphis three to be released
You are not taking into account recent findings in the case, or the context. And you're acting like all the groups on the internet are all pro-wm3, when that is absolutely not the case. There are hardened groups on the net who put out their own skewed facts and refuse to accept anything other than the boys being guilty. I can think of a few and one specificaly that advertises http://callahan.8k.com
Please don't say what I am or am not taking into account, I have researched this case long enough and am well aware of all recent findings. I am not acting like ALL groups are pro-wm3, I said most, and most are. The callahan site is completely unbiased, it is a database of all the trial transcripts and documents it has absolutely nothing to do with pro or anti-wm3
And that was not Damien's official polygraph transcript. His results have never been found. They went off the recollection of the person who did the test as the results. It was not a full, official transcript.
The original printed sheet was lost but they still had the charts with the original questions on them and that was where the examiner wrote up the hand written one from, it was not as you say from recollection.
Heres his release form:
http://callahan.8k.com/images/damiene/depolyrelease.gif
Heres the polygraph charts:
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/de_polygraph_charts.html
Heres the poygraph report, both transcribed and images.
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/depoly.html
http://callahan.8k.com/wm3/img/depoly1.html
The alibi thing makes no sense.
Agreed they were plain out proven to be lies.
It has been stated MANY times that Misskelley's confession WAS cohearsed. And an IQ of 72 is borderline mental retardation. And if it is actually in the low 80's that still shows mental deficiency.
Yes they have been stated they were coerced many times by the DEFENSE who never did actually prove it. Did his OWN attorney coerce him when he was in PRIVATE with him and pleading with him not to confess and that was AFTER he was convicted and was recoreded by his own attorney?
In regard you statement on his IQ, here is testimony from the trial:
DAVIS: Ok. And the WAIS-R is the test that you use to determine the defendant’s IQ?
WILKINS: Yes.
DAVIS: And in that particular test, what was the performance IQ?
WILKINS: 75? Let me—yes.
His Performance IQ was 75 in the test he took for the trial.
DAVIS: Ok, and in 1992 there was also—prior to the time you did your examination there was another IQ test, correct?
WILKINS: Yes.
DAVIS: What was his performance IQ at that time?
WILKINS: 88.So his performance IQ plunged 13 points from the previous year.
In fact, prior to the test given to him for his trial it was consistently average
The Arkansas State Lab said the fibers DID NOT match, ruling it inconclusive, only a single red fiber was "similar.
They said they couldn't say it matched as the technology to say for sure doesn't exist what they did say was:
A red rayon fiber (Q-14), found on Chris’ shirt and was found to be similar to a red robe seized from Baldwin’s trailer (K42/E-99/J-5)
You're right, it was a girl, not a boy. Narlene, who said she spotted Damien at the scene had a history of lying and the nicest thing said about her character was that she liked to "Exaggerate." The only one who cooberated her story without contradicting her, like her son did, was her daughter, who repeated what her mother said. The other people in the vehicle said they only saw 2 figures and couldn't say who they were, or what they wore, because they only glimpsed them. Her own family said she was a liar. And that she claimed to have psychic abilities and "knew things" about people. She also claimed she saw and talked to the victims that day and told them they needed to go home. The clothes she said they wore that day were wrong... A common occurance with her.
Ok so we will just ignore three people witnessing the sighting, the prosecution had enough confidence to put her on the stand, but whatever.
The soft ball girls didn't know whether he confessed to them or they overheard him, that he was bragging or threatening them, etc... And you have to understand the girls ages were very young, rumors were already swirling about Damien. One of the girls said she screamed at him asking if he killed those three boys. I could actually buy him saying yes as a joke.
They heard him say it regardless whether they overheard him or he said it directly, they heard him say it. I guess it was just a coincidence that it came from the same person who later would be implicated in a confession from Misskelley and another coincidence that it was the same person spotted muddied near the scene and on and on.
The girl said he talked to her in her mind when he watched her. Another one said Damien showed up at her bedroom window and threatened her... Which started out as a dark figure, then turned into Damien.
She was explaining a look he gave her, it was the best as how she could explain it for a young girl, it was not to be taken literally.
The shadow comment, I think you are stretching again, the figure she saw first was as a shadow that she eventually made out to be Damien, she clearly wasn't saying a shadow transformed into Damien.
I don't remember the defense even going down that road, seriously.
The experts that looked over the wounds of the boys involving the knife pointed out that the medical examiner, who did a shitty job from the start, never took several things into consideration, including the stretching of skin that would occur if a knife was used.
Yes and I already told you the PAID experts for the defense came to that conclusion from looking at photos, whereas the "shitty" Medical Examiner examined that ACTUAL BODIES.
"Carson was not destroyed and was found credible at the trial, maybe in the eyes of those that believe them to be innocent, but not by me or 24 jurors."
His credibility was awful. He was never anyones bodyguard like he claimed and no one in the jail trusted him. But of course, since the jurors said it was true it must be true. *Waits for the Casey Anthony mob to show up*
He passed his polygraph, was not offered any deal for his testimony and took the stand.
THERE IS A REASON WHY THEY DIDN'T WANT ANOTHER TRIAL. THEY WOULD NOT HAVE WON.
It was the defense that went to the prosecution wanting a deal, the prosecution accepted. The truth is the prosecution may not have won, after 18 years obviously the prosecution in any case would be weaker, we will never know what could have happened, that doesn't make them innocent.
The cost to the state in this case has been huge, maybe they washed their hands of it, not to mention the pressure they were under from the media and supporter groups, we can only guess why they accepted the plea.
The defense also said there was no evidence and they would have won a retrial, well why did they want to make a plea, when all they had to do was wait until december and be completely exonerated and pick up a huge paycheck in the process.
The bottom line is three convicted murderers, two of which maintained innocence for 18 year took a plea of guilty in order to be released. In those 18 years with the best attorneys money could buy and huge amounts spent on testing, investigations etc, not one single piece of evidence was ever produced to show their innocence. I hope I'm wrong, but I can see one of them reoffend in the future.
Now we have people celebrating their release. I could understand if these people thought its possible they COULD be innocent, but not that they ARE innocent. I can respect your opinions as you seem to have done some research, but regardless what side your on, you will admit most people base their opinions off a documentary and maybe at best a pro or anti website.
Anyway you now know my thoughts on it, thats just how I feel after the research I put in, and I respect that you have a different opinion. Let just both agree that justice for Stevie, Chris and Michael is lost and thats why we were/are so passionate about the case in the first place.
