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Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Next on the list: Uganda

Axlin16 wrote:

Hey I didn't call it a shithole. I'm just going on every "fuck Castro" Cuban i've ever met in my life that act like it was Paradise on earth until Castro. And like I said, Iraqis were the ones that told me directly the place went to hell when Saddam took over.

jppgnr
 Rep: 18 

Re: Next on the list: Uganda

jppgnr wrote:
Axlin08 wrote:

Hey I didn't call it a shithole. I'm just going on every "fuck Castro" Cuban i've ever met in my life that act like it was Paradise on earth until Castro. And like I said, Iraqis were the ones that told me directly the place went to hell when Saddam took over.

Yeah i know you didnt, all good here, but that goes to show the objectivity of that people, they say that Cuba is a shithole cause they hate Castro.

I went there when i was 18 yrs as a birthday present and i tought it was fantastic, everything, from the old parts of the city and the old cars, just amazing. Something i've never seen, it was what in other countries is called poberty, but it they had dignity and happines man.
Not to mention the free education and health care.

I dont know about Iraq tough, ive never been there, dont know anyone from there so i cant really talk with facts, but what i believe its that with the US there it isnt getting any better.

Having a mcdonalds every other block doesnt make it a better or more beatiful place.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Next on the list: Uganda

Axlin16 wrote:

Yeah I agree, interesting story. I was told the old cars was because that was the last time Castro allowed the corporations (Ford, GM) products to be allowed in the country. So they just continued to keep them up, because they weren't allowed new cars.


Either way I do agree with the concept that free capitalism doesn't = freedom of living.

I grew up pretty poor, and my mother's parents were virtual poverty. To this day they live in a totally condemnable, dilapidated home in the middle of nowhere, and rarely have alot of contact with alot of modern day society.

They're practically heroes to me for it.

jppgnr
 Rep: 18 

Re: Next on the list: Uganda

jppgnr wrote:
Axlin08 wrote:

Yeah I agree, interesting story. I was told the old cars was because that was the last time Castro allowed the corporations (Ford, GM) products to be allowed in the country. So they just continued to keep them up, because they weren't allowed new cars.


Either way I do agree with the concept that free capitalism doesn't = freedom of living.

I grew up pretty poor, and my mother's parents were virtual poverty. To this day they live in a totally condemnable, dilapidated home in the middle of nowhere, and rarely have alot of contact with alot of modern day society.

They're practically heroes to me for it.

Its isnt so much Castro not allowing GM or Ford sell cars to cubans, its the other way around, the US embargo makes it illegal for american corporations to sell anything to Cuba.

Either way, even if they could get new cars, they wouldnt be able to afford them and the cuban government doesnt allow regular people to buy cars(cause of oil shortage and price), the cars are bought by the government and assigned  to different people who apply to a car license with a specifical task, e.g to be used as taxi's.

To me free capitalism equals status quo in the sense that:

If you have money you're set for life, we live in a world where you can make money from money, you no longer need to produce/make something to make money. Its really hard to fuck it up with this one.

If youre born without money but arent poor, all you have is your labor force, youre gonna be someone else's employee. Maybe youll get an education and upgrade a bit your life, maybe.

If youre poor you're fucked. You're not able to afford an education, you're cheap labor, youll end up working at mcdonalds. (in the developed countries, if youre poor in a third world country then youre trully fucked)

The whole "if you work hard everything will be ok" thing it has become bullshit, maybe 50 years ago was true, but now... Your future doesnt depend on luck or hard work anymore, it depends on where were you born and in what economic conditions.

My Grandparents were poor too, but luckily they managed to get out of that situation while mantaining humility and simplicity in their way of being, that became an example to me.
I think im pretty level headed, but i wish i could be even more like them.

slcpunk
 Rep: 149 

Re: Next on the list: Uganda

slcpunk wrote:
James Lofton wrote:

These conflicts usually start with advisers, CIA, special ops and there's no way in hell it stays at that low number. How you gonna find a needle in that hellish haystack with 100 people? You're not, and those on the ground aren't there to get him. Like Afghanistan, they are on the ground to get intelligence and god knows what else before the REAL mission starts.

I don't like arguments that exist in the future. What we know is what we know right now, and that's what I base my opinions on. If at a later date your scenario comes to fruition then perhaps I'll have a different point of view. But until then...

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 136 

Re: Next on the list: Uganda

jppgnr wrote:
Axlin08 wrote:

I forgot that Iraq was sunshine and daisies and pixie dust for 40 years before we were there.

My bad. It was Saddam Hussein that was Gandhi.

No, it wasnt sunshine and daisies and pixie dust, but it wasnt the shithole that currently is. They had a beautiful country, clean water, electricity and no civil war(given, cause saddam was squashing them), now they've got all of those things.

I never said Saddam was Gandhi, but maybe the US tought he was of some good when the CIA helped him get to power and backed him up for decades with money and guns even though you knew he was murdering communist arabs, and kurds(with your guns), or maybe cause they where communist they dont count?

So of all the countries in the fucking world its a shame that the US is the one that goes there under the pretext of freeing the iraqui people.

This aint personal, i've got nothing against you or americans, i dont hate you, but dont give me that crap that you where there to free Iraq.

Saddam hussein was a mass murderer, no arguing that, but just remember who put him there.

How do you know what Iraq was like and what it's like now?  Have you been there or are you just taking the word of others (no doubt from a site/source based on the idea of demonishing US action there).

jppgnr
 Rep: 18 

Re: Next on the list: Uganda

jppgnr wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

How do you know what Iraq was like and what it's like now?  Have you been there or are you just taking the word of others (no doubt from a site/source based on the idea of demonishing US action there).

I dont need a site to tell me how to feel about the US. I dont hate americans, its just that i dont buy the whole freedom bullshit that you spew. Who made you the world police? Fuck off and mind your own bussines, youve got enough problems home.

Btw it isnt hard to demonize the US, its quite easy actually, i could think of Chile and Pinochet, i Could think of Argentina Kissinger and the 30000 dissapeared, i could think of Brasil, and the list goes on. Musharraf, Idi Amin, Noriega. Its really long. Google that shit, its enlightening.

If there's a dictator in the world, its likely you're backing him up, or worst, you put him in power.

Man you wanna know why Iran hates the fuck out of america? When they where on the verge of democracy you went there and placed Shah Reza Pahlavi, a lunatic in command, thats why they hate you. They dont hate america cause you represent freedom, they hate you cause you took their freedom. They lost their freedom cause you didnt wanna pay the full price for oil.

About Iraq, remember who put Saddam there? Who helped him with guns and money? Who backed him up even thou he was murdering communists and kurds by the hundred of thousands? Who let him keep running the country even when he invaded Kuwait?

Im guessing that the bombing of Baghdad didnt make it a better place than it was before. So im pretty sure its worse now than when saddam was in charge.

The destruction of milleninal buildings, the looting of museums, all the culture lost. Dont even get me started on the bombing of schools and hospitals called collateral damage.

The civil war that started after the invasion with all the suicide bombings isnt helping either to make it a beautiful or saffer place.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 136 

Re: Next on the list: Uganda

Who put Sadam in power?  You're not suggesting the United States?  What has Argentina done recently?  What is the GDP of that nation?  Can you give me a list of what freedoms Argentinians have?  Isn't Argentina plagued with corruption?

Don't badmouth my country when you come from a Latin America wannabe USA state.  Poor in my country is wealthy in yours.  Thats because my country has the power and ability to protect itself and its allies.  All I hear in your post is how envious you are of the United States.

My country has its problems, I'll be the first to admit that.  But I'll be damned it its compared to 3rd world gutter nations that don't give two shits about the rights of its citizens and suffer from grave human rights violations.  In America, people scream about human rights when a Gay Cheerleader is kicked off a team.  In other nations, homosexuals are murdered and swept under the rug.  Political disidents disapear. 

My country could make yours vanish in under an hour, but won't.  America isn't perfect, but it's still the most powerful nation in the world, no matter how much the sideline countries wish it wasn't so.

James
 Rep: 652 

Re: Next on the list: Uganda

James wrote:
jppgnr wrote:

cause if UN violations are reason to go to war, id like to ask, in the name of my country Argentina, the US help to invade Great Britain or bomb the shit out of them so they give us back the Falklands(Islas Malvinas).

You're seriously comparing the Falklands crisis to the Iraq war? REALLY??

Reagan was right to look the other way while Thatcher took care of business, no offense. The UK was NOT in ANY violation of a UN resolution and was defending what it considers its own territory. The US was not obligated by treaty, defending a violation of international law,etc. to defend Argentina during the conflict. When we get down to brass tacks, Argentina is lucky the US took a slightly neutral stance as we easily could have sided with the UK and assisted them with our navy as the Falklands are far from the UK and it wasn't easy for them to retake it. A war that would have lasted a few days tops if closer wound up lasting several months. Had it turned into a quagmire, the US would have got involved and it was even possible for the UK to invoke Article 5 and it become a NATO operation instead of simply being a UK-Argentina conflict.

Obviously you're from Argentina and have a different viewpoint on the subject, but to compare that conflict to any other(especially ANY US conflict) is absurd.




edit: I just read an article about this conflict and it was Argentina in violation of UN Resolution 502.

http://daccess-dds-ny.un.org/doc/RESOLU … penElement


Also, Libya was supplying Argentina with missiles during the conflict.  In other words, they were within three shakes of a lamb's tail from getting bitch slapped by Reagan.



Bush didnt have every right to go to war with Iraq,

Yes he did. So did Clinton and so did Bush I in 1992.


Thats no reason, give me a break, cause if that were to be a good reason you should think of invading Israel, Marocco, Indonesia, Turkey...

So you have an all or nothing stance on foreign policy? So you think Reagan's invasion of Grenada should have led to invading half the world?

Why would the US consider invading the countries you listed? Do you even realize that Turkey is a vital ally in NATO? You support a US invasion of Israel? Under what grounds? While Indonesia and Morocco have a terrorist presence, I doubt they are invaded anytime soon although with ongoing US operations in Africa, action in Morocco(a drone strike) is possible.




And about the bit of the Bush Doctrine, i dont think its only a Bush thing, its more of a US Doctrine, cause you've been fucking with  other countries sovereign affairs for almost a century now.

The Bush-Obama doctrine is not a "US doctrine". US foreign policy post 9/11 doesn't even come close to resembling its foreign policy in previous decades.



polluxlm wrote:

Iraq happened because Reagan and Daddy couldn't fathom why the Iranians were so upset with America after CIA overhtrew their republic, so they made a deal with Saddam, another CIA creation, to start a war for them. As if that wasn't enough, in order to maximize the sale of arms and chemical weapons they induced a stalemate in the conflict by supplying Iran with weapons too through criminals in South America. That little incident itself lead to a crack epidemic in america and an assassinated prime minister in Scandinavia. Hell, I think they capped a guy in Italy too around then.

While I agree the Iraq-Iran conflict was bordering on a proxy war and definitely a "the enemy of my enemy is my friend" situation, but both Iraq wars were legal with the US and its allies forcing Iraq into compliance with a trillion UN resolutions. Saddam had countless chances to avoid war but he wouldn't keep his word and comply with what HE agreed to in order to bring an end to Gulf War I.




Cramer wrote:

I don't like arguments that exist in the future. What we know is what we know right now, and that's what I base my opinions on. If at a later date your scenario comes to fruition then perhaps I'll have a different point of view. But until then...

I wouldn't necessarily consider it an argument in the future. I'm just going by what the US does as it prepares to enter a conflict. I don't see why Uganda would be the exact opposite of recent conflicts.

jppgnr
 Rep: 18 

Re: Next on the list: Uganda

jppgnr wrote:

This is priceless.

Randall Flagg wrote:

Who put Sadam in power?  You're not suggesting the United States?  What has Argentina done recently?  What is the GDP of that nation?  Can you give me a list of what freedoms Argentinians have?  Isn't Argentina plagued with corruption?

Who put Saddam in power? Reagan and Kissinger. They have wiki pages, if you dont know who they are you should check them out.
You're not suggesting the United States? Im not suggesting, im saying it.
What has Argentina done recently? I can tell what we havent done recently, we didnt destroy the worlds economy and sunk millions in poverty.
What is the GDP of that nation? Dnt know, does it matter?
Can you give me a list of what freedoms Argentinians have? Theyre not called freedoms, theyre called rights, and we have the same rights as the people in the US. THE SAME, youre not special.
Isn't Argentina plagued with corruption? Isnt Wall Street plagued with corruption, what in Washington is considered legal, in our country is illegal, in here you cant buy senators for a campaign contribution.

Randall Flagg wrote:

Don't badmouth my country when you come from a Latin America wannabe USA state.  Poor in my country is wealthy in yours.  Thats because my country has the power and ability to protect itself and its allies.  All I hear in your post is how envious you are of the United States.

Latin American wannabe US of A state? Give me a break, if i where to envy some country it would be Sweden, Norway, Japan, Germany, not the US.
Poor in your country is at most a low echelon of our middle class. Suck on that. This aint the third world.  Go learn some geography, read a book, it'll be good for you.
The last part didnt get it, btw you cant protect yourselves and allies thats why 9/11 happened, thats why the bombings in the London subway happened and 11/3 in Spain happened. Not only you cant protect yourselves but also youve dragged your allies into this. Im not happy 9/11 happened, but man youve got to learn something out of it, you cant meddle in other countries sovereign affairs and expect people not to hate you. Justin Timberlake said it, what goes around comes around.


Randall Flagg wrote:

My country has its problems, I'll be the first to admit that.  But I'll be damned it its compared to 3rd world gutter nations that don't give two shits about the rights of its citizens and suffer from grave human rights violations.  In America, people scream about human rights when a Gay Cheerleader is kicked off a team.  In other nations, homosexuals are murdered and swept under the rug.  Political disidents disapear.

Yes your country has some problems, a lot. Nice of you to admit it. I didnt compared the US to any third world "gutter country" like you said. Last time i checked in america black people were still being discriminated and jewish and asian too. Gay people too. Gay kids comitting suicide cause of bullying, bullying is discrimination too. Arabs are frowned upon, people are afraid of getting into a plain with an arab person. Isnt that discrimination?
Here in Argentina, my gutter country as you say, we dont have any Fred Phelps.

Randall Flagg wrote:

My country could make yours vanish in under an hour, but won't.  America isn't perfect, but it's still the most powerful nation in the world, no matter how much the sideline countries wish it wasn't so.

We the people in Argentina thank the US for allowing us to live. Im glad you dont make us vanish. roll
America is far from perfect, it's still the most powerful nation in the world, yes. And? That gives you the right to fuck with everyones bussines?
You think the world envy's you and the truth is we dont. 22

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