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mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: The Space thread

mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

Except it’s not. We were taught that model in school to help us understand the setup of an atom, but you can’t observe an electron. It’s not orbiting the nucleus of an atom like a planet does its star.

Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle is why we can never snap an image of an electron. The best visual image of an electron would be a cloud surrounding a nucleus representing where that electron could be at any moment.

Plus planets form a disc through gravity while the proton and electron are held in place by the electromagnetic force.

It looks like a cloud because the electrons are moving so fast around it?

No, because of Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle. The electron doesn’t exist in three dimensional space. It manifests at different points randomly in its orbit. The cloud represents the location of where it could be.

What I’m envisioning are electrons moving at high speed in any orbit around a nucleus...so quickly that it’s like looking at a box fan...you’re saying that’s incorrect?

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 110 

Re: The Space thread

mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
mitchejw wrote:

It looks like a cloud because the electrons are moving so fast around it?

No, because of Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle. The electron doesn’t exist in three dimensional space. It manifests at different points randomly in its orbit. The cloud represents the location of where it could be.

What I’m envisioning are electrons moving at high speed in any orbit around a nucleus...so quickly that it’s like looking at a box fan...you’re saying that’s incorrect?


Right. I’m saying that electrons aren’t a 3 dimensional object that exist and can ever be observed. They exist and are absent simultaneously in their orbits. We only know that they exist and can generalize a certain level of certainty where they are located, hence the circular orbit cloud representing the likely area the electron is.

I’m not a physicist nor do I want to type out my limited understanding of quantum mechanics on my phone. But an electron can’t be quantified with any physical attributes or location. It doesn’t have a shape.

To fully understand electrons and how they exist would require a unifying theory and science isn’t there yet.

mitchejw
 Rep: 109 

Re: The Space thread

mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:
mitchejw wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

No, because of Heisenberg’s uncertainty principle. The electron doesn’t exist in three dimensional space. It manifests at different points randomly in its orbit. The cloud represents the location of where it could be.

What I’m envisioning are electrons moving at high speed in any orbit around a nucleus...so quickly that it’s like looking at a box fan...you’re saying that’s incorrect?


Right. I’m saying that electrons aren’t a 3 dimensional object that exist and can ever be observed. They exist and are absent simultaneously in their orbits. We only know that they exist and can generalize a certain level of certainty where they are located, hence the circular orbit cloud representing the likely area the electron is.

I’m not a physicist nor do I want to type out my limited understanding of quantum mechanics on my phone. But an electron can’t be quantified with any physical attributes or location. It doesn’t have a shape.

To fully understand electrons and how they exist would require a unifying theory and science isn’t there yet.

Interesting....but you must agree there are some similarities here...since time is a subjective concept....and these planets surround the sun and are orbiting at a subjectively high speed....given the nucleus is the center and both models at least a potential source of energy....

The definition of life is somewhat arbitrary...i was just curious earlier in this thread if our definition of ‘life’ isn’t broad enough. And since life on earth is nothing but a collection of atoms and elements...maybe our definition of life is too ethnocentric.

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