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James
 Rep: 641 

Re: Appetite For Distortion - Episode 256: 90s and 00s Axl Stories

James wrote:
Sky Dog wrote:

Talking to myself but Izzy leaving threw Axl off which ultimately fucked everyone

Yep....fans later on downplayed this in the later years in favor of the Axl-Slash saga.

That 92 interview that focused on Izzy was just dripping with spite.

They lost their mojo when he left.

FlashFlood
 Rep: 51 

Re: Appetite For Distortion - Episode 256: 90s and 00s Axl Stories

FlashFlood wrote:
James wrote:
Sky Dog wrote:

Talking to myself but Izzy leaving threw Axl off which ultimately fucked everyone

Yep....fans later on downplayed this in the later years in favor of the Axl-Slash saga.

That 92 interview that focused on Izzy was just dripping with spite.

They lost their mojo when he left.

It was obviously huge but what was Izzy going to contribute to Slash’s songs in 95 that wasn’t the southern blues rock Axl and Duff had already rejected?

Edit: point being I don’t think GnR would or could have mattered in the mid-90s after UYI. An early 2000s reunion would have.

misterID
 Rep: 467 

Re: Appetite For Distortion - Episode 256: 90s and 00s Axl Stories

misterID wrote:

I don't think there was anything Izzy could have offered them during the 90s that would have changed anything or been mindblowing... Didn't they try that, and all they got was like Down By The Ocean? He was his own man, doing his own thing, and was probably never meant to be in a band to begin with.

I've never really believed Izzy was the secret ingredient the band needed. It was more a moment in time with the right circumstances that were needed to make Appetite, much like Steven's contribution to Rocket Queen. It just happened because of that chemistry at that time. They didn't *need* Izzy post AFD/UYI.

They were never recapturing those days again.

James
 Rep: 641 

Re: Appetite For Distortion - Episode 256: 90s and 00s Axl Stories

James wrote:

Had the 91 lineup continued, they may have run into some trouble in the mid-late 90s like other bands at their level...

Metallica with Load

U2 with Pop


I don't see how you two can so easily write off a band with that 87-91 run that quickly.

Four albums in four years but nothing to offer a few years down the road?


Hindsight tells us they were creatively spent but if the songwriting unit stays intact, there's a chance to keep it on the tracks.

misterID
 Rep: 467 

Re: Appetite For Distortion - Episode 256: 90s and 00s Axl Stories

misterID wrote:

They'd already fallen apart in '91. The music landscape completely changes in '92, both U2 and Metallica willingly adapted to the times, which Slash was totally against. I'd throw Izzy in there, too. He had become a niche rock artist with a huge bank account who did whatever he wanted. I think they brought Izzy back to write, didn't they? That obviously didn't work. The only reason Velvet Revolver was successful was because of Scott, who was on the tail end of relevance himself.

Axl's vision for the 90s was right, but the other guys didn't buy into it.

mitchejw
 Rep: 128 

Re: Appetite For Distortion - Episode 256: 90s and 00s Axl Stories

mitchejw wrote:

It’s silly to believe they couldn’t adapt...and those that down play Izzys role either musically or psychologically down care much for the intricacies of song writing, song depth or any type of depth that makes something good and not elevator music.

There all music is now...corporate and made for the elevator.

misterID
 Rep: 467 

Re: Appetite For Distortion - Episode 256: 90s and 00s Axl Stories

misterID wrote:

Why didn't they?

Axl's best songwriting, imo, had nothing to do with Izzy.

James
 Rep: 641 

Re: Appetite For Distortion - Episode 256: 90s and 00s Axl Stories

James wrote:
misterID wrote:

Why didn't they?

Axl's best songwriting, imo, had nothing to do with Izzy.

Nothing to do with Izzy? He's all over AFD to the point it can't happen without him, Lies, and about half of UYI.

While it's subjective of course, this takes us back to how much they did without him...which isn't much.

They didn't adapt without him.

Fifteen years to whip up a stale, outdated UYI III with a huge cast of characters.



Yes it's over in 91 but we're talking about the potential they had if it doesn't fall apart.

Do you really think that an intact 91 lineup twiddles its thumbs for the duration of the 90s?

VR a good example to bring up actually....when Izzy was involved, he was interested in a full blown GNR project. God only knows what could've come from that....what we do know of is the claim that a great instrumental GNR album was recorded and then sat on.

In an alternate universe, the project going forward without Weiland and Kushner might actually lead us to the reunion.

When Izzy came back into the fold(summer of 95?) he wasn't there long enough to make any difference. Slash was doing Snakepit at the time.... nothing substantial would happen that year under any scenario.

To bring on their Load or Pop, a lot of pieces have to fall into place....

Izzy comes back and stays

Slash kills the Snakepit tour early

Duff doesn't bother with the Neurotic Outsiders and ditches any other plans

And most important of all....

Axl gets over the fact Slash took the Snakepit demos and did his own project. It all falls apart if he can't deal with this maturely and rationally.

If all those chess pieces get set up late 95, they've got a 2-3 year window to drop their Load/Pop before the musical winds start blowing another direction again.

what was Izzy going to contribute to Slash’s songs in 95 that wasn’t the southern blues rock Axl and Duff had already rejected?

As we know, Axl wanted these songs brought back and Slash balked. They are no longer rejects at that point. These rejects became a line in the sand.

I found it funny during the Axl chats when he said Fall to Pieces originated from this period....as if it's some knock on Slash for using it.

What I took from the statement is the fact he was sitting on a song of that quality.

That could've been a single in 96-97.

As far as Izzy contributions in that period, I think the potential lies more in what Axl and Izzy might whip up and not what Izzy is simply adding to the Slash material.

Axl tried bringing him back twice....that we know of.

He knew what he brought to the table

misterID
 Rep: 467 

Re: Appetite For Distortion - Episode 256: 90s and 00s Axl Stories

misterID wrote:

And Izzy didn't stick around to see VR through. He left way before Scott came into the picture. I don't think there's any alternate universe where Izzy stays. I've never seen another rock star so adverse, not only to being in a band, but operating like a normal musician than Izzy Stradlin. Slash is a band guy, maybe more of a touring band guy. Axl is a studio guy. Izzy is a do what I want, whenever I want, and so it sucks for you if you got any plans kind of guy.

Again, we're talking about Izzy's contributions to AFD, which even Steven did in his own way, and Duff and Slash. AFD is timeless with Jungle and SCOM, but is also really dated otherwise. UYI is a great example of the band moving in different and polar directions, while finishing up what they made together from the AFD sessions. That band was mentally over.

I think Axl brought up Fall to Pieces as an example of liking something Slash came up with only for him to bury it for him but ended up using it later on with someone else.

I think Slash could have made a contemporary rock album with Axl but just didn't have the desire to. At least back then. Again, I haven't seen anything Izzy has produced that shows he'd want to do that. That's not knocking Izzy, he just has a very different, old school "Izzy style."

Imo, Izzy would be more capable of writing something relevant to the times with someone like Jack White than Axl.

A TSI? style of album in '95 with just Axl, Slash, Duff, Dizzy and Matt would have been cool. But no one seemed to want to make *that* album... Or the same album.

James
 Rep: 641 

Re: Appetite For Distortion - Episode 256: 90s and 00s Axl Stories

James wrote:

Izzy bailed on VR when he saw it wasn't GNR minus Axl but instead was turning into a supergroup meant to be at the top of the pop/Rock charts.

I don't think he warrants much (or any) criticism in this department.

It wasn't "way before". Weiland was in the picture at that point...even if just on the outside looking in. While Izzy had no desire for the supergroup, Weiland commented about not wanting to essentially be the frontman for GNR.

Shortly after....Izzy exits stage left, Kushner enters stage right.

A massive downgrade.

In hindsight I wonder if Izzy's initial interest in VR was fueled by hoping to get a full blown reunion on track.


Again, we're talking about Izzy's contributions to AFD, which even Steven did in his own way, and Duff and Slash. AFD is timeless with Jungle and SCOM, but is also really dated otherwise. UYI is a great example of the band moving in different and polar directions, while finishing up what they made together from the AFD sessions. That band was mentally over.

Take away the songs that originated in 86-88, they barely had enough for one album, definitely not two. So yeah....

It's over.

I just don't think it would have been impossible to somehow get back on track. There is simply too much talent in the 91 lineup to simply throw your hands in the air and become a band releasing covers....half of which originated from the Illusions sessions.

I think Axl brought up Fall to Pieces as an example of liking something Slash came up with only for him to bury it for him but ended up using it later on with someone else.

Axl shouldn't have initially rejected his demos. It was a collosal fuckup... might even be worse than bringing in Tobias.

Remember...this is summer/fall 94 where there's still a chance to get things moving forward.

We've got an early version of This I Love and a sketch of what becomes Fall to Pieces ten years later.

There's loads of potential in some of those Snakepit tracks....

Neither Can I
Beggars and Hangers On(Duff co-writer)
Good To Be Alive (Gilby co-writer)
Lower(Sorum co-writer)

That's a pretty good album taking shape and most important of all.... there's no rush.

Instead of building on this, Axl does a power play by bringing in Tobias out of the blue and then rejecting what Slash, Duff, and Matt have worked on.

By the time Axl says, "Hey, wait a minute...", Slash has already moved forward and is putting a band together and quickly records the album.

A year later we get Neurotic Outsiders and he can see they are capable of moving forward without him.

Instead of a potentially killer GNR record, the talent gets diluted in various solo and side projects until three of them strike gold a second time with VR.

Them as a unit.... whether it's the 87-88 or 91 lineup...is what made them so special. Each project away from the group was always lacking something.


That's not knocking Izzy, he just has a very different, old school "Izzy style."

I always thought this song could've been a killer deep cut on a reunion album....

It doesn't reinvent the wheel....but they were never going to do that anyways.


When the Stones came back eight years ago with a new song and I heard it, first thing I thought was GNR need a song like that.

Not everything has to be Jungle or November Rain. 16

A TSI? style of album in '95 with just Axl, Slash, Duff, Dizzy and Matt would have been cool. But no one seemed to want to make *that* album... Or the same album.

I can only think of one person in 1995 who didn't seem very motivated to work on a new album of any sort....and it's not Slash, Duff, Matt, Dizzy, and Teddy Zig Zag.

A bit later the early stages of what becomes the Chinese saga  kicks in with various shadow lineups  jamming with only one person not bringing any ideas, lyrics, or songs to the table.

They gotta wait three and a half more years to get some lyrics and vocals down....and Slash wasn't going to waste what was left of his prime just sitting idle.

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