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Re: If its the same old set list will you go??
buzzsaw wrote:There are reasons that no promotion was done for anything GnR related over the past 10+ years. One of those reasons is that the common everyday person that likes SCOM and NR, and tolorataes WTTJ and PC don't have a clue that it's just Axl. Still. And it's not their fault.
So am I understanding you Buz, you're saying that little effort was made to re-brand the band away from the UYI line up in the public eye intentionally?
Not the only reason, but yes, I believe it was intentional. How could it not be? No website updates, no promotion EVER for ANY of the tours, no interviews, no ANYTHING. It's not that the information isn't out there, but you really have to look for it if you don't actually follow the band like we do.
It's an interesting theory. I do think it's the one thing that's bugged a lot of people over the years. I think most people either want a reunion, OR , they want the modern GNR to have a fixed line up, tour regularly, put out albums more often and generally behave as a modern band does. I think it's fair to say that the most odd thing about this whole thing wasn't the keeping of the name and all that but rather how strange the workings of the band seemed to get. While Axl always seemed to do things his own way, i think back in the AFD era the band appeared to be more 'normal' in it's approach to commerical endevours, media, tours, releases and the like. Despite being a fan of the band, I am interested in this type of stuff, like why the band operates so differently to how it once did.
I think that the general reaction to the new band and the VMAs was so negative that someone made the decision to gamble on the music and not the band. They knew some weren't going to accept the new lineup no matter what and others were going to see them as a freak show, so the only chance they had to win people over was having the music be so good that people couldn't help but accept the band. Had the album been released in 2002, I think it could have worked too. The problem came when the album wasn't released for another 6 years after multiple failed tours and reworking 10 year old songs over and over until instead of just sounding dated, they sounded dated and cluttered. CD was already the butt of jokes in 2002, but it was such a punchline by 2007 that it was doomed no matter how good it was. A lot of people were never going to give it a chance by then.
However, don't you consider the album a failure because of comparatively low sales? I thought your basic premise is that the sales were the public's judgment of the new line up. But surely if no one is aware and thought it was AFD days then the album should have sold very strongly?
I actually think that's one reason it sold well initially (and it did). Once people heard the album AND realized it wasn't really Guns N' Roses, sales dropped dramatically. Casual fans heard CD on the radio (maybe) and didn't wait around for the best part of the song before switching stations...that didn't help either.
Listen, EVERYTHING worked against this album: bad first single (the song isn't horrible, but it takes too long to get to the part that could have grabbed people), no promotion by anybody involved in the project, rotating lineup, no Slash, BB exclusive, etc. The album was destined to fail and the decisions made leading up to release ensured it. It seems that every decision that they've made regarding the album release and the tours these lineups have made was based around money, so it's hard to believe that they didn't intentionally not promote who was in the band for financial gains on some level at least. Someone knew they had more to lose by telling everybody that it wasn't the real GnR - not saying it was Axl necessarily - and allowed things to be done the way they were done. Axl's management is too competent for this to be a coincidence.
The only thing I don't know is the why. I can toss out theories all day, but I'd rather just know why than guess at it.
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: If its the same old set list will you go??
A Private Eye wrote:Buzz you've got a point but that suggests buying your tickets and then finding out the starting squad are all reserves. In this case you know the team before you buy the ticket, so if you don't like, don't buy, don't go then boo YOUR team.
I don't believe that's true. If the team doesn't promote the fact that they are only playing reserves, but the hardcore fans that hang out at a forum about the team know because it's a pattern they've established recently, the only people showing up either want to see the scrubs, don't know it's the scrubs, or don't care because their favorite starting pitcher is pitching and they don't care who else plays. You can't knock the ones that show up expecting the regulars for booing saying they should have known...how were they to know if they are only casual fans? It's not like the radio or other media is talking about it unless you really look for it. And if you're going to see the Yankees play, why wouldn't you expect ARod, Jeter, Teix, etc to play? It's the Yankees, right?
Sorry Buzz I don't buy that as an excuse anymore, if you don't know that GNR is just Axl from the original days then you've been living under a rock. Every article regarding GNR for the last ten years has mentioned how only Axl's left. Head onto their myspace or whatever and there's a band lineup listed. If we're going with your analogy I'd say the majority are going because their favourite pitcher is playing and they know that he'll pull off some of their favourite plays.
I've got no idea who those guys are you listed by the way 
, good Yankees players I'm assuming. Point is if I went to NYC and checked out a Yankees game I'd be excited because it's an experience and I'm seeing the Yankees not for any particular player because I don't know any. Same for GNR, if someone is such a casual fan they don't know Slash and Duff are gone they probably don't really know who they are in the first place.
Re: If its the same old set list will you go??
I'd make a case that if you don't know who ARod and Jeter are, you're living under a rock too. It actually proves my point...it is very possible to have no clue who is in a band. And they may not know who Slash is, but they know his image. His image is bigger than he is.
Re: If its the same old set list will you go??
Expanding from that, I think people in the US know who is and isn't in the band better than people in other countries do. I think that is another factor in the success (or lack of success) that they've had in different markets.
- A Private Eye
- Rep: 77
Re: If its the same old set list will you go??
I'd make a case that if you don't know who ARod and Jeter are, you're living under a rock too. It actually proves my point...it is very possible to have no clue who is in a band. And they may not know who Slash is, but they know his image. His image is bigger than he is.
If you have no idea who is in a band, why would you care if when you get to the show some guy who you have no clue about isn't playing guitar?
Re: If its the same old set list will you go??
buzzsaw wrote:I'd make a case that if you don't know who ARod and Jeter are, you're living under a rock too. It actually proves my point...it is very possible to have no clue who is in a band. And they may not know who Slash is, but they know his image. His image is bigger than he is.
If you have no idea who is in a band, why would you care if when you get to the show some guy who you have no clue about isn't playing guitar?
If I was going to a show, I would be sure to make sure I was seeing the band I thought I was going to see. Having said that, not everybody does that. A LOT of people assume that if they are going to see Guns N' Roses, they are going to see the band that they know...that's just the reality of it. And anyone that's seen the SCOM video will know Slash isn't on stage. Maybe they care, maybe they won't. But as I said originally, you can't bitch about the people expecting one product and getting another booing when they don't like what they got. If you want to bitch about people like me going and booing, that's fine. Not everybody knows it's Axl only. Especially in foreign countries that don't speak English. It's not like it's common knowledge...you actually have to look for ANY information on GnR.
Re: If its the same old set list will you go??
yeah bucket is such a huge crowd draw ... thats why he only plays bars in the USA
That's an unfair swipe. He doesn't play bars. He plays clubs and he also plays festivals.
When Bucket and Bootsy showed up at that awards show a few years back, they were the talk of the town at the event. Even Joan Rivers couldn't resist talking about them. Just because Bucket isn't filling stadiums doesn't mean he languishes in empty bars like Jani Lane.
Lets see any member of GNR minus Axl fill the venues that Bucket does or get added to a festival.
Not gonna happen.
In fact, I triple dog dare any 2000-2009 member of GNR to announce a solo show at ANY venue Bucket has performed at and then announce their attendance numbers.
Bucket will come out the winner 100% of the time.
If you think Bucket isn't a huge draw, what is your opinion of the draw on the guys in the current lineup?
I think that the general reaction to the new band and the VMAs was so negative
This chapter of revisionist history is getting old. Not just aiming that at you as tons of people do it.
That crowd is on fire. This is when there was actual genuine interest in the "new beginning". They kicked ass at Rio, and easily sold out the club dates prior to Rio, and they had difficulty selling out the Joint in 2006, which holds 1200 people.
This 2002 mindset of "look at the freak!!!!1111!!" is bullshit. They killed that crowd, and that moment was talked about by tons of people for weeks after the performance. Its one of the all time highlights in VMA's history.
The fuck up was Axl himself not being ready and of course not releasing the record at the perfect moment.
People were willing to accept the new lineup in 2001 and 2002. Not so in 2006-09, so aim that stuff at them, not the lineup who did 99.9% of the work.
Re: If its the same old set list will you go??
No - maybe the crowd was caught up in the moment of being there. People at home were laughing at them. James, I'm not sure what was going on in your neighborhood, but people where I lived were absolutely laughing at the freakshow and talking about how horrible that song between WTTJ and PC was. Time isn't changing that no matter how much BH fans might want it to. Respect the talent, but that's it. I watched the video again. Same reaction. They sounded terrible. Axl was bad. The band was bad. This performance set the band back 3 years on it's own.
