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Re: DUFF says he 'Was Reluctant At First' To Open For GN'R
& ftr, So Fine is like top 10 GnR songs!
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: DUFF says he 'Was Reluctant At First' To Open For GN'R
Sorry if anyone thought I was crapping on Izzy. I love Izzy, and I think the interplay between his and Slash's guitars is pure gold.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: DUFF says he 'Was Reluctant At First' To Open For GN'R
they lost it cause ur guy was fucked up on heroin . izzy wrote the best TUNES on UYI & MAY have felt more at home in the band had Slash & others respected his sobrity a little more.edit - perfect response to Slash?? WTflyingF?! Slash's parts are the response & reaction to Izzy's rhythm! Izzy is the foundation, don't you get it??
mikkamakka's point disguises the sad truth of this & recent threads - it's NOT that people on this board are crapping on Slash, from what ive seen 100% of us LOVE what he recorded as a GnR member - it's that recently the Slash fans have been CRAPPING on IZZY'S CONTRIBUTION. i dunno why this is, maybe cause they think Izzy's an easy target in which case they're obv morons or cause they're intimidated by Axl's songwriting or what... i just dunno. whatever it is it's as ugly as Axl's slights on Slash. which is again the fanbase reflecting one of the more ugly sides of GnR/Axl....
Izzy 4evr.
WRONG AGAIN!!!!!! On many songs, like SCOM, WTTJ, etc, Slash wrote the RIFF first, then, Izzy came up with the chords to play behind the RIFF!!!! Yes, songs like Patience, Slash solo'd over his chords, but often times Slash had the riff first, Izzy would then work his stuff in perfectly with Slash. The most recent example is "Ghost" on Slash's solo album. Slash had the riff, izzy added the rhythm.
They had great interplay. On UYI, Izzy often missed the recordings, leaving Slash to record more parts. What you get on UYI is mainly hearing Slash and little Izzy.
Re: DUFF says he 'Was Reluctant At First' To Open For GN'R
Axlin12 wrote:This all boils down to the same battle that has waged in rock bands for ages.
Vocalists don't understand guitarists contributions and thinks they're replacable
And guitarists don't understand vocalists contributions and thinks they're replaceable.
Nothing new has happened. Look at Slash's old 1993-95 interviews about Axl. He was brutal on Axl and his tastes and what he brought to GN'R, and he was STILL IN the band at that time. Axl never poor mouthed him like that then.
Then years later Axl basically says the reverse of Slash's statements.
Based on Slash's collaborations with NUMEROUS vocalists, and Axl's collaborations with COUNTLESS guitarists...
Neither of them have a high opinion of the "band position" of the other.
jmho
never once heard Slash or Duff or anyone question Axl's actual contributions and I've never gotten the impression at all that Slash felt Axl was replaceable. I think Slash fully realizes you can't replace a talent like that. Axl on the other ahnd comes off as though he thinks one of the best guitarists of all time is replaceable by just about anyone. fact is nobody can replace Slash. Axl seems to be the only one who feels Slash was replaceable.
Well I suggest you go back and check out Slash's 93-95 interviews.
He pretty much crapped on everything that made Axl an artist.
Axl downplaying Slash's contribution isn't much different from people shitting on Izzy in this thread. Tired of that crap.
Yeah i'm pretty sick of it too. It goes to show there's as many Slashites as there are Axlites that think Slash wrote everything in GN'R and that GN'R could be Slash and a bunch of new guys around him, no different than Axl.
Slash hasn't recorded a single thing even close to comparable to the UYI stuff in 20 years, and it's because he didn't have Izzy making him smarter.
- Mikkamakka
- Rep: 217
Re: DUFF says he 'Was Reluctant At First' To Open For GN'R
johndivney wrote:they lost it cause ur guy was fucked up on heroin . izzy wrote the best TUNES on UYI & MAY have felt more at home in the band had Slash & others respected his sobrity a little more.edit - perfect response to Slash?? WTflyingF?! Slash's parts are the response & reaction to Izzy's rhythm! Izzy is the foundation, don't you get it??
mikkamakka's point disguises the sad truth of this & recent threads - it's NOT that people on this board are crapping on Slash, from what ive seen 100% of us LOVE what he recorded as a GnR member - it's that recently the Slash fans have been CRAPPING on IZZY'S CONTRIBUTION. i dunno why this is, maybe cause they think Izzy's an easy target in which case they're obv morons or cause they're intimidated by Axl's songwriting or what... i just dunno. whatever it is it's as ugly as Axl's slights on Slash. which is again the fanbase reflecting one of the more ugly sides of GnR/Axl....
Izzy 4evr.
WRONG AGAIN!!!!!! On many songs, like SCOM, WTTJ, etc, Slash wrote the RIFF first, then, Izzy came up with the chords to play behind the RIFF!!!! Yes, songs like Patience, Slash solo'd over his chords, but often times Slash had the riff first, Izzy would then work his stuff in perfectly with Slash. The most recent example is "Ghost" on Slash's solo album. Slash had the riff, izzy added the rhythm.
They had great interplay. On UYI, Izzy often missed the recordings, leaving Slash to record more parts. What you get on UYI is mainly hearing Slash and little Izzy.
This.
tejastech08 wrote:
Axl downplaying Slash's contribution isn't much different from people shitting on Izzy in this thread. Tired of that crap.
Yes, it's different. Cause they were in the same fuckin' band. So while my or your opinion, be it spot on or absolutely wrong, doesn't change and mean much, he was there, so he is either the most delusioned bitter old freak, suffering from Alzheimer, who has ever lived on this planet, or he's simply lying with this desperate try to rewrite the band's history and erase Slash. Fuck, Axl, you'd better get your hired session guys write new solos and riffs instead of trying to play Slash's stuff note by note, or even better get them write new material, and play that, not Slash's songs. You'd 'tour' in half empty bars.
More below.
Axlin12 wrote
Yeah i'm pretty sick of it too. It goes to show there's as many Slashites as there are Axlites that think Slash wrote everything in GN'R and that GN'R could be Slash and a bunch of new guys around him, no different than Axl.
Slash hasn't recorded a single thing even close to comparable to the UYI stuff in 20 years, and it's because he didn't have Izzy making him smarter.
You both are absolutely wrong. Noone's denying Izzy's importance. It's enough to listen the UYIs, and his absence is felt badly. GN'R lost that magic Slash and Izzy brought to the table when they were complementing each other's playing. They were the perfect guitar duo for me - only the Slash/Gilby twin attack comes close to this on 5 O' Clock. That was some well-worked out rock guitar, for sure.
But. I had to make it clear that Izzy wasn't more important than Slash. In fact, he played a lesser role. To quote Izzy himself, he always wrote songs in the style of his solo albums, but then came Slash and Axl, who rewrote it. That's why some Izzy songs sound so GN'R - cause Slash and Axl changed it. YCBM would have been a C-side Rolling Stones song - with Slash it became an all-time classic. 99,9 percent of GN'R fans wouldn't be there, if the band music would have sounded like Izzy's solo work.
But the Slash N' Axl songs, like Locomotive, Estranged, November Rain, Coma, Civil War still have that GN'R feel, although Izzy did close to nothing on those songs. It's not against Izzy, but during the UYI recordings he was AWOL - it was Slash and Duff who worked pretty hard on the others' material, and Axl did his part, too, at home. Izzy didn't work on the band songs, and you can blame Slash and his addiction, Axl and his antics, the fact is that Izzy left the others in deep shit, both during the recordings and then when he left days before the world tour. That was mean.
Izzy's playing is unique, his additions are unique, but his song-writing is simple. It helped GN'R to reach wider audience, since Slash often makes too riff-based songs, while Izzy is all for simple chords. Izzy was important and perfect for GN'R. He is irreplacable. But a lot of people, who are only seeing liner notes, and don't know anything about how a band works, or how this band worked, not to mention that they have never ever played guitar or any instrument, can come to the conclusion that Izzy was more important than Slash. No. Fuckin'. Way. I love Izzy, but Slash's guitar guitar solos made the band outstanding musically and those 'few key riffs', he wrote. You know, the songs that made Guns N' Roses Guns N' Roses and not Hollywood Rose.
Before some Izzylite or Axlite comes - I've never said that Slash alone would have been the band. No. But he was the most important songwriter, and the guy who worked his ass off on others' leftover songs, to make them GN'R. And he made them GN'R. He was (and is) everything, but not lazy or replacable. Axl, slash, Duff, Izzy and Steven made Guns N' Roses. That five made the chemistry. It was enough to remove Steven, and that changed the dynamics. Izzy was an even bigger loss. But without Slash, Axl can't even pretend that it's Guns N' Roses. They lost it, both in image, and what's much worse, musically.
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: DUFF says he 'Was Reluctant At First' To Open For GN'R
See Mikka, your argument that Slash was the most important writer is exactly the kind of garbage I'm tired of. There were 4 guys of EQUAL importance to me.
- Smoking Guns
- Rep: 330
Re: DUFF says he 'Was Reluctant At First' To Open For GN'R
Song writing, yes, tejastech08 is right. Performance wise, Slash by far is the most important. For a live show, you had to have Slash, he still hasn't truly been replaced, Izzy, Duff, Steven, yes, they can be replaced for live settings, but Axl and Slash, they simply cannot. They brought too much to the table. At these concerts, nobody is saying, "damn, this show would be so awesome if only Duff and Izzy were here." Its Slash, that is what the 98% of the fans leaving thinking, "man, if only Slash was here, would have been awesome".
- tejastech08
- Rep: 194
Re: DUFF says he 'Was Reluctant At First' To Open For GN'R
Song writing, yes, tejastech08 is right. Performance wise, Slash by far is the most important. For a live show, you had to have Slash, he still hasn't truly been replaced, Izzy, Duff, Steven, yes, they can be replaced for live settings, but Axl and Slash, they simply cannot. They brought too much to the table. At these concerts, nobody is saying, "damn, this show would be so awesome if only Duff and Izzy were here." Its Slash, that is what the 98% of the fans leaving thinking, "man, if only Slash was here, would have been awesome".
Slash was more important than Axl for live performances? Strange thing to say IMHO.
- monkeychow
- Rep: 661
Re: DUFF says he 'Was Reluctant At First' To Open For GN'R
Slash hasn't recorded a single thing even close to comparable to the UYI stuff in 20 years, and it's because he didn't have Izzy making him smarter.
Izzy's great, but at the same time I think the *guitar* parts are comparable on much of 5 O'Clock somewhere, and several tracks off the solo album too.
I'm NOT trying to claim the OVERALL song is at GNR level as they're not, but in terms of Slash's playing i'm certain that:
1. Add Duff/Axl to 90% of that material and it would be at the standard of a UYI rocker at least.
2. Remove Axl's parts from the UYI rockers such as "Don't Damn Me" and add in Myles or Eric Dover and you have a song that would be at home on Snakepit.
I think it's a modern fallacy amongst fans that Slash isn't as good since GNR, if anything, watching his modern playing it sounds more intricate and much more technically sophisticated than his solos on UYI and AFD yet still with the same passion and ability, I think he's getting better not worse, what's missing on the newer tracks is Izzy, Axl and Duff for sure.....so i'd say we agree on that..but go easy with the "slash hasn't done anything good since GNR" as I think most of his songs would be GNR worthy the minute you added Axl.
