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DCK
 Rep: 207 

Re: Who will be the 2012 GOP Nominee?

DCK wrote:
misterID wrote:

Most people can't afford to send their kids to college. Now, is this the kids fault or the parents fault? Or was it the grandparents fault for putting their kids in that position? Or was it the irresponsible great grandparents who screwed over their kids with their reckless lifestyles during the great depression? I mean, it HAS TO BE their fault, right?

And how about this? Lets regulate the medical and pharmecutical industries, so that instead of charging someone $55,000 for open heart surgery, we charge them $13,000 like they do in England? Or instead of $2,200 for an MRI that costs everyone else in the world 110 bucks? How about we stop letting doctors and hospitals charge all these outrageous prices for tests that they don't need, and overcharging for prescriptions, so they can gouge insurance companies and medicare? If they did that, you know, Medicare/Medicade would actually be okay. And we wouldn't be #1 in the world in medical costs and #34 in actual care. Lets make medical/pharmecutical price gouging a federal crime? Doctors are now in bed with medical companies and get kick backs for all those tests and bullshit they give you, even if you don't need it. Lets stop that.

Can I rub some shit in your US faces? I think I want too.

Disclaimer: not claiming my country is better, we're far off the US in many aspects and will never reach there either, BUT, we got at least some shit down well. I'm not even claiming to be a socialist.

1. College and Universities are all free. It's just up to each student to perform well enough to go there. Do all go? No, because funnily enough, if parents got no college education, the odds are stacked against you going as well. Is it still better? Hell fucking yes. I think it's called
socialism...

2. Open heart surgeries or any other surgeries are free. If your doctors bills reach 300 dollars (mind the weak dollar atm), every other doctor appointment you got will from there on out be free. In Israel for example, you don't even pay that. It's free from day one. And the US fucking suck in medical care but still don't wanna change it. It's hilarious.

People have been saying on FB and Twitter we pay 50% Taxes. Lies. I pay 28% as I am sole provider of our family atm. I would pay max 36% and everything would still be free.

It dawned on me in 2001 (one of the few smart things I came up with back then) that if you have a good income, there is no better place than in the US. But, you need a GOOD income. You need to be able to pay for your medical shit, your sons college, all of that. That income seriously have to be good. I saw poverty in Texas that shocked me. I had never seen something like it before. Shitty houses, small houses. However, I had never seen such wealth before either. It was truly a crash of classes I was not used to. Here, we're overall well off. Oh wait, is that socialism too? 16

If you have no money, it must be shit. McDonalds as your only affordable food (I pay 20 dollars for a Big Mac menu, but hey, that's alright, people are fat enough as it is), no healthcare, no nothing. It must downright suck.

I had a good and close friend from Texas in 2001. While I was a healthcare apprentice she went to college. She fucked that up. I went to college a few years later for free. In 2012 she is working her ass off in a restaruant 24/7 with a bad pot habit and a lousy husband while I work as a consultant and have been abroad twice within two months. You can blame it on her, and the blame IS on her, but I can guarantee you if I had brought her back here when she was 18 she would have been so much better off.

Alright, rubbing shit mode off. I dig the US. Especially your leanient views on aviation. You can just build your own P-51 Mustang and fly it. In Norway, you can't even fucking buy one because the state put so much taxes on it, it's impossible. That is, IF you have the money. It's always about the money.

Communist China
 Rep: 130 

Re: Who will be the 2012 GOP Nominee?

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misterID
 Rep: 456 

Re: Who will be the 2012 GOP Nominee?

misterID wrote:

I'll take his "socialism" over wild west captalism any day of the week.

And yes, blame Medicare for the doctors shortages 16

During the 80s and 90s there was a prediction of a 165,000 surplus in the number of doctors by the year 2000. And medical schools voluntarily restricted the amount of medical students entering their programs. The surplus never happened. We got a shortage. Now they're telling universities to increase enrollments and class sizes. Also, the baby boomers who are in the medical field are retiring and that's what's adding to the shortage of doctors AND nurses.

You cannot allow the medical industry to charge whatever they want in the name of incentivising people to work in those fields. Does this really get the best and brightest? Really? Does this mean that right now all doctors are competent and there are no malpractice cases? Cracking down on the price gouging isn't going to hurt anyone. Doctors and hospitals will still make lots and lots of money. They just won't make as much as when they were gouging the system. People's lives are still way more important than a doctors new jaguar, which funny enough, he'd still be able to afford. And they will still be incentivised by the government through Obamacare. If this theory worked about "incentivising" with these ridiculous costs to attract "good" doctors to the profession, like how it is now, we wouldn't be #34 in the world in medical care right now, would we? 

We need more federal loan programs to keep up with tuitions, and also take these universities to task for wasteful spending and keep them transparent.  Some colleges are doing just that and tuition has gone down.

And rail is still popular in this country, fyi.

Axlin16
 Rep: 768 

Re: Who will be the 2012 GOP Nominee?

Axlin16 wrote:

Now we're talking. Tuition rates are utterly ridiculous and continuing to rise. Awhile back in Florida, state universities got permission from the state to raise their tuition rates 15% each year for 15 years without any justification other than "well everybody else is doing it". Their reasoning was the national average was in the mid-$30,000 range per semester, and Florida state universities were some of the cheapest in the country.

So instead of running with that, and using it as a tool to attract more students, they claimed up and down how broke they were and needed the money and needed to raise tuition, while they put another high-rise Welcoming Center in.


It's all such horseshit. Anybody ever seen "Inside Job"? Fantastic documentary from 2010 detailing this whole smoke screen. All this bullshit about "private colleges" versus "public colleges", yet private colleges such as Harvard and Columbia University actually teach "policy" in their classes to business majors, then basically set up their majors to go directly into the banking industry with the same philosophy, while the college deans get major kick backs from the bankers to do this.

So here we are talking all about "GET GOVERNMENT OUT OF OUR LIVES", yet private industry every damn day in this country with the most money and the most power dictate government policy.

What fuckin' government?

Obama sits up there talking all his shit, yet put every single bank leader and financial guru which buried us in the first place right back into office to 'consult' with huge financial bonuses for doing it.


I would say - Nationalize - but the thing is there are local banks and credit unions which are TRUELY the innocent, independent, small town banks that operate the old fashioned way still. I've seen it. I've paid my bills, i've paid off my truck loan, I did the right thing, and these smaller banks still take your word, give you the best interest rate possible, and agree virtually on a hand shake.

They DO exist. Problem is "Billy Bob's Feed, Tackle & Finance" doesn't affect U.S. policy. The big bankers do.

These also aren't the rich were are gonna take it in the backdoor on getting taxed to death either.


The big ones do. The ones who run wild, dictate U.S. policy to protect their financial interest on the poor, then turn around take another kick back, and hey if all else fails... get elected to office. Then dictate policy.

Do any of you know that Florida Governor Rick Scott spend $80 million dollars to win the 2010 governor seat, which only pays around $130,000 a year? "I'm doing the job for free", only after public opinion swayed so negative that for PR's sake he cut his salary "to help the people". Give me a fucking break.

What blows my mind more is how a poor man, or a middle class man (which is pretty much the same thing these days) will turn around and fight for the rich man to keep sticking it to him.

Only in America. Or Iraq.

Nobody in America (who's apparently considered a Socialist), is asking those who make money to take it in the shorts so people get sit around and get fat.

They're asking for the 1% top-tier elitists to pay their fair share of taxes. And they're crying like a bunch of little babies about it.

"They already pay tons in taxes, that's how you get your financial aid for college", and you know what if it wasn't for somebody putting the pressure on... we wouldn't even have that.

Randall Flagg wrote:

Class warfare?  The unemployment rate for someone over the age of 25 with a 4 year degree is 4.5%.  If you choose to to be a parasite and fuck off and have "fun" don't bitch when the chips don't fall in your favor.  Lack of personal responsibility and accountability is the root of the problem.  A bunch of people who aren't willing to make the sacrfices are upset, because they don't get to live in the kind of homes they see in their nightly television sitcoms.  If you fucked around during your 20s, popped out kids and didn't plan, it's not some rich boogieman's fault you don't have 5 60inch LEDs and a mercedes in your driveway.  It's your own fault.

This is the most short-sighted, biased, cynical, heartless, piece of crap post I think you've ever typed.

Dude i've worked with and around tons of people who abused the system.

Every generation has a group of people that are self-entitled, spoiled, lazy, and good for nothing other than sucking air and food.

But you can't let that jade your perspective.


There are people out there (like myself), who are only still around because of the kindness of friends & family which i've built enough good will with over the years lending them a hand when they needed, that they've returned the favor with myself.

I haven't had health insurance in years. Why? Because health insurance costs LOTS of money these days. Last quote I got was around $500 bucks a month. Then I got another that was over $200 a month. That's a fuckin' car payment, for something I might not even need, in a country that has basically said "you're not entitled to good health".

I can't get a job either. The job i'm trained for isn't available. When I was told "you have work experience, but you need an education". I go get an education, now i'm told "yeah but you don't have work experience in the last 'x' amount of years".

Now I spent money and went into debt for that degree, which I now can't pay back because I can't get the job that my education was for.

So I try to get another job, of which work is harder and harder to come by, and basically I gotta be on call for a "maybe, kinda sorta, if we need you" type of situation.


Which brings us back to health insurance. Can't afford it. Am I entitled to it? I guess not under your idealogy.

I never expected to have a Mercedes in my driveway (I don't even like them), I don't have nor do a I want a 60-inch HDTV. I don't want a mansion, and excuse me for expecting to have a house like on TV, just a trailer and some land and some peace of mind is good for me, I guess that was too much to ask, nor am I dishonorable enough to want a rich man to make tons of money so I can sit on my ass.


I HATE SITTING ON MY ASS. I CAN'T STAND THIS SHIT. I need a gig. Fuckin' getaway driver in a bank heist, any damn thing.

I'm ready to work, ready to kick some ass, ready to be the American that I am and contribute to my country by making the work force a stronger unit.

I hate waking up in the morning, looking for jobs, applying for jobs, and knowing nothing will come of it. I hate not getting calls for work. I just LOVE having my friends or family pay for dinner, so much to the point i've virtually stopped eating short of a small meal a day, because I can't stand the guilt.



But that's okay. Let's me and you band together so some fucking rich man can have another lobster on the table, and another $100 million in his bank account.


I don't want a handout. I just want a fair level playing field. And that's what DOESN'T EXIST IN AMERICA.  I just want a fair shake. I want a chance to prove i'm as good as I know I am. I don't want to just sit around being a bum.

slcpunk
 Rep: 156 

Re: Who will be the 2012 GOP Nominee?

slcpunk wrote:
Communist China wrote:

Your health care and colleges aren't free, they're paid for through taxes...

Yes and what do we get for our taxes? I'd gladly pay a bit more in taxes so we could educate our country and provide health care for all.

slcpunk
 Rep: 156 

Re: Who will be the 2012 GOP Nominee?

slcpunk wrote:
Axlin12 wrote:

I haven't had health insurance in years. Why? Because health insurance costs LOTS of money these days. Last quote I got was around $500 bucks a month. Then I got another that was over $200 a month.

Even if you shell out the cash, good luck having them pony up the money when you need a claim paid. Also good luck not getting canceled after you get sick. You're probably better off not having insurance anyway, the odds of you going bankrupt if you become ill are probably not much different. Either way you'll get stuck holding the bag in the end.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 112 

Re: Who will be the 2012 GOP Nominee?

Axlin12 wrote:
Randall Flagg wrote:

Class warfare?  The unemployment rate for someone over the age of 25 with a 4 year degree is 4.5%.  If you choose to to be a parasite and fuck off and have "fun" don't bitch when the chips don't fall in your favor.  Lack of personal responsibility and accountability is the root of the problem.  A bunch of people who aren't willing to make the sacrfices are upset, because they don't get to live in the kind of homes they see in their nightly television sitcoms.  If you fucked around during your 20s, popped out kids and didn't plan, it's not some rich boogieman's fault you don't have 5 60inch LEDs and a mercedes in your driveway.  It's your own fault.

This is the most short-sighted, biased, cynical, heartless, piece of crap post I think you've ever typed.

Dude i've worked with and around tons of people who abused the system.

Every generation has a group of people that are self-entitled, spoiled, lazy, and good for nothing other than sucking air and food.

But you can't let that jade your perspective.


There are people out there (like myself), who are only still around because of the kindness of friends & family which i've built enough good will with over the years lending them a hand when they needed, that they've returned the favor with myself.

I haven't had health insurance in years. Why? Because health insurance costs LOTS of money these days. Last quote I got was around $500 bucks a month. Then I got another that was over $200 a month. That's a fuckin' car payment, for something I might not even need, in a country that has basically said "you're not entitled to good health".

I can't get a job either. The job i'm trained for isn't available. When I was told "you have work experience, but you need an education". I go get an education, now i'm told "yeah but you don't have work experience in the last 'x' amount of years".

Now I spent money and went into debt for that degree, which I now can't pay back because I can't get the job that my education was for.

So I try to get another job, of which work is harder and harder to come by, and basically I gotta be on call for a "maybe, kinda sorta, if we need you" type of situation.


Which brings us back to health insurance. Can't afford it. Am I entitled to it? I guess not under your idealogy.

I never expected to have a Mercedes in my driveway (I don't even like them), I don't have nor do a I want a 60-inch HDTV. I don't want a mansion, and excuse me for expecting to have a house like on TV, just a trailer and some land and some peace of mind is good for me, I guess that was too much to ask, nor am I dishonorable enough to want a rich man to make tons of money so I can sit on my ass.


I HATE SITTING ON MY ASS. I CAN'T STAND THIS SHIT. I need a gig. Fuckin' getaway driver in a bank heist, any damn thing.

I'm ready to work, ready to kick some ass, ready to be the American that I am and contribute to my country by making the work force a stronger unit.

I hate waking up in the morning, looking for jobs, applying for jobs, and knowing nothing will come of it. I hate not getting calls for work. I just LOVE having my friends or family pay for dinner, so much to the point i've virtually stopped eating short of a small meal a day, because I can't stand the guilt.



But that's okay. Let's me and you band together so some fucking rich man can have another lobster on the table, and another $100 million in his bank account.


I don't want a handout. I just want a fair level playing field. And that's what DOESN'T EXIST IN AMERICA.  I just want a fair shake. I want a chance to prove i'm as good as I know I am. I don't want to just sit around being a bum.

And I'm telling you the playing field is level.  I don't know your personal history and specifics.  I don't know what you majored in during college.  I'm not arrogant enough to try to make a personsal critique.  What I do have are statistics.  And I say again, unemployment rate is 4.5% for people over 25 with a 4 year degree.  That is a statistically insignifant number.  It's an outlier.  When taking in account people who are between jobs or desire not to work, that figure is almost zero.

Yes, people like you may be unable to find a job.  And that sucks.  but it's not indicative of the entire system.  I'm been getting a lot of briefings from recruitment firms since I'm planning to exit the military in roughly a year.  And the biggest inhibitor for people finding empoyment is expectation in terms of geography and job title.  Someone who refuses to oleave their current location and has their eyes set on a specific job are dramatically reducing their pool of employment opportunities. 

The other major discrepancy is pay expecation.  Someone just entering the job market shouldn't expect to be brought in at a high pay.  Anything over 40k for a recent college grad with little work experience is swinging for the fences.  It's a gradual increase over one'e career.  All this bullshit about a livable wage.  Define livable wage to me?  Personally i think 200$ a month is a steal for health insurance.  Most people I know pay more than that out of pocket for their company funded plan. 

I'd tell you to avoid Cramer's suggestion that people don't get insurance.  That's bad advice in my opinion.  Horror stories are abound, but we're not interested in the suspenseful and emotional stories the 24 hour news media latches on to.  We want to look at the norm. 

No you're not entitled to health insurance or health care.  That is a service provided by people who undergo years of intensive schooling and assume huge costs in liability insurance because every person with an ailment is looking to blame someone else and an easy payday.  Show me a government document that says you're entitled to medical care.  You can't because it's not a right or entitlement.

There is a direct correlation between government involement in public medicine and providers and its cost.  The other simple reality is that technology costs money.  It's not some doctor with a couple tools anymore.  It's a multimillion dollar MRI machine with a shit ton of other expensice medicines and machines to diagnose and treat you.  Those machines cost money and the use of them has to be passed on to the patients using them. 

People love to say they'd gladly pay more in taxes to cover social medicine.  But I call bullshit.  To achieve parity with our European counterparts, that would spike your average tax payer by 25%.  I already pay 1k a month in federal taxes.  I don't want to pay more.  what people really mean when they say raise taxes, is raise taxes on someone else - the rich boogeyman.  Nevermind that forcing someone who is financially successful to pay 100s of times more than the average person is unfair and counter to a notion of democracy where everyone is an equal partner.  the rich earned their money through hard work and sweat at some point.  i get that trustfund babies exist, but they're not the majority and who are you or anyone else to tell someone that they can't pass their success on to others.  It's an arbitrary line in the sand.  These same people have no problem paying for their kids to goto college, yet if I suggested we make them pay for other kids to goto school out of their own pocket and not via someone else, well you end up with the Occupy movement.

Bottom line is there is no free ride.  I went to one of the proverbial shitty schools.  I chose to pay enough attention and learn what I needed to in order to get accepted to a state university.  I volunteered 7 years of my life via military service in order to have that college paid for.  And I was still to fucking dumb to live within my means and racked up over 50k in credit card debt and loans because I thought I was entitled to a better standard of living.  Yea, you read right.  I had my entire college paid for - tuition, room, board, book exspenses and even a monthly stipend of $300 and I still felt I was entitled to more and spent and borrowed wrecklessly.  Well the piper came get his due and my ass suffered for a few years.  I still buy shit I don't need like a new Camaro and Harley, but at least now I can afford it and have paid off all my debt I accrued. 

i tell this story because 50k is a fair price for a college education at any state university.  Anyone going into debt over that to get a degree from something they consider more prestigious is an idiot.  I started out at the same average pay for a recent college grad right around 30k a year.  And gradually I got a pay increase to where I sit now.  So I've been there.  I've walked the walk.  No one left me a trust fund or paid my way.  I did it.  But it sucked a shit ton at times and I was often unhappy.  So when people try to identify as an exception to the rule, I have to ask are they doing everything they can to better their situation or are they falling victim to the whoah is me and I deserve better. 

When you start adding in all the reasons why you can't take a job in Oklahoma when you presently reside in Maine, then we're really getting to the issue.  You bought a house?  Well you obviously didn't financially plan for something within your means and stability.  Kids, other debts?  Same thing.  In my opinion, most people who have marketability and yet are still unemployed, are people with piss poor expecation management.  My friend John is a great example.  never mind he has a piss poor work ethic and was fired from two jobs because he spouts off Gingrich style conservative comments at anyone who will listen and is an open homophobe and closet racist.  He was offered 3 jobs when he got canned from his last one, but thought they were beneath him.  So now he is 32 and lives at home with his parents.  All because he'd rather do that and have some false sense of self worth, than accept a job that pays him 35k a year.  In my book, it'd make more sense to take the 35k job and keep farming for something better.  but John and the Occupy crowd feel bitching and false sense of worth are much more productive.

misterID
 Rep: 456 

Re: Who will be the 2012 GOP Nominee?

misterID wrote:

You're comparing everyone to yourself, to your story. You're actually painting everyone with the same brush, like you did before. You're throwing out scenerios that only fit your arguments. And you contradicted yourself before by blaming the unemployed for being unemployed, but then turned around and pointed at Obama for the high unemployment. And any good economic news is liberal spin? Say what?

You're leaving out that people are working horrible jobs, not living off the government. And a lot of WORKING people have to have foodstamps because their wages are so low, and conservatives fight tooth and nail to allow their employers to pay out what they feel like. You've been blaming people with your own made up scenerios of their lives without taking the time to understand what's really happening. The unemployed are not living high on the hog off the goverment, they get peanuts. Not to mention these people can't afford the education to get a better job, on top of that their "real" shitty schools didn't prepare them with a proper education. And now they're having to fight to keep their minial jobs. Let alone being able to afford proper healthcare for themselves and their families.

But that's their fault for having kids, right? Even though things were better for them before the bottom fell out. It's their fault their employers outsourced their jobs, they had a bad CEO who ran their company into the ground and they're looking for a job against 8% unemployment. It's their fault they were born into absolute poverty. It's their fault the prices of groceries, heat, electric have skyrocketed, but wages have not been touched to match the inflation... they've gone down.

Someone gets sick, there's an accident, and people barely holding on to being in the middle class are destitute. That's reality. And this is why people hate conservatives.

Blame the victim politics is old and boring.

A big slice of people who are choosing not to work and living with their parents are college graduates. You're living in this fantasy world where the majority of people in trouble lived beyond their means, were too lazy to get a good education, that they don't live up to your standards of how people should live.

There is no level playing field. At all.

And your friend John and the OWS group are not the same. And blaming people because they're living paycheck to paycheck and not able to run across the country to find work because they're not financially able is completely obnoxious, pathetic and out of touch.

Randall Flagg
 Rep: 112 

Re: Who will be the 2012 GOP Nominee?

No, i've heard your sob stories and they don't add up.  I don't blame Obama directly for the unemployment rate.  I do blame the Democratic party primarily because they're the ones behind the housing bubble.  Telling banks to give homes to poor black people or we'll call you racist.  That's the crux of it. 


Playing the victim is old and boring.  I'm tired of the excuses when the truth is people live beyond their means.  The definition of poverty in this nation is a joke.  Air Conditioning with cars and cable TV and full bellies.  If you're unable to take out a student loan because you realize you won't get great grades in college and major in something worthwhile, good for you.  But when you take out that loan for the party experience, no sympathy.  At the end of the day there's a recruiter within 10 miles of your location.  Signup and do 4 years and serve your country.  You'll get a decent paycheck, healthcare, shelter food and free college.  But it all comes back to sacrifice. 

Feeling sorry for yourself and coming up with every excuse why your situation is unique doesn't help.  I'm not going to increase my taxes to pay for you.  And when you demand others subsidize your comfort, you're not a free person at all.  You're entirely dependent on others for your survival.   If that makes you feel good, live your life.  But don't consider us equal.

Re: Who will be the 2012 GOP Nominee?

Lomax wrote:

Can I rub some shit in your US faces? I think I want too.

Disclaimer: not claiming my country is better, we're far off the US in many aspects and will never reach there either, BUT, we got at least some shit down well. I'm not even claiming to be a socialist.

1. College and Universities are all free. It's just up to each student to perform well enough to go there. Do all go? No, because funnily enough, if parents got no college education, the odds are stacked against you going as well. Is it still better? Hell fucking yes. I think it's called
socialism...

Go the fuck! No way. Where you living and up to what level is college free? Undergrad or MA and PHD ?

2. Open heart surgeries or any other surgeries are free. If your doctors bills reach 300 dollars (mind the weak dollar atm), every other doctor appointment you got will from there on out be free. In Israel for example, you don't even pay that. It's free from day one. And the US fucking suck in medical care but still don't wanna change it. It's hilarious.

Awesome


People have been saying on FB and Twitter we pay 50% Taxes. Lies. I pay 28% as I am sole provider of our family atm. I would pay max 36% and everything would still be free.

More awesome

It dawned on me in 2001 (one of the few smart things I came up with back then) that if you have a good income, there is no better place than in the US. But, you need a GOOD income. You need to be able to pay for your medical shit, your sons college, all of that. That income seriously have to be good. I saw poverty in Texas that shocked me. I had never seen something like it before. Shitty houses, small houses. However, I had never seen such wealth before either. It was truly a crash of classes I was not used to. Here, we're overall well off. Oh wait, is that socialism too? 16

Yeah the Us is suffering terribly for pride and prejudicde.

If you have no money, it must be shit. McDonalds as your only affordable food (I pay 20 dollars for a Big Mac menu, but hey, that's alright, people are fat enough as it is), no healthcare, no nothing. It must downright suck.

Mmmhmmmmm. But it's Ok.


I had a good and close friend from Texas in 2001. While I was a healthcare apprentice she went to college. She fucked that up. I went to college a few years later for free. In 2012 she is working her ass off in a restaruant 24/7 with a bad pot habit and a lousy husband while I work as a consultant and have been abroad twice within two months. You can blame it on her, and the blame IS on her, but I can guarantee you if I had brought her back here when she was 18 she would have been so much better off.

Yeah consultancy is well and truly where it's at. Especially right now.

Alright, rubbing shit mode off. I dig the US. Especially your leanient views on aviation. You can just build your own P-51 Mustang and fly it. In Norway, you can't even fucking buy one because the state put so much taxes on it, it's impossible. That is, IF you have the money. It's always about the money.

Yeah.... Cos cheap model planes beat free education any day!

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