You are not logged in. Please register or login.
- Topics: Active | Unanswered
Re: Which do you feel is most likley
I don't like the nostalgia feel to it. It's not what I signed on for when I decided to support this new idea/band. The whole concept was to create something new, like Chinese (and maybe even more out there), not revert back to used up ideas of cock rock, sculls and pistols. No sir. If they're gonna do that, then a reunion is the only option. On that I agree with Mikka, a nostalgia trip with the OLD band is BAD enough as it is. A nostalgia trip with replacements not releasing their own music is even worse.
I was into this because of the possibility of seeing Axl co-write songs with others, to create a new monster of whatever.
But, let's see how it pans out.
Re: Which do you feel is most likley
All I know is that we bitched for years for them to play Civil War and Estranged. And we all know people would be livid if he didn't play the old songs. Remember the disaster that was the Madonna tour where she wouldn't play her old hits? Yeah, didn't work out so much.
There his songs anyway. There's always going to be a nostalgia feel to the tour with a band that's 25 years old.
Do I want to hear new music? Hell yeah. And I think that's a testement to Axl and the music he's created for CD. Most fans hate when a band load their shows down with new material at the expense of their old songs. I guarantee you most established acts would kill for their fanbase to be as rabid as we are for new material. It's the exact opposite with GN'R.
And I'm not shutting the door on the possibility that he's going to play some new tunes. Right now, this moment, I have never heard the new era of THIS band, THIS excited to make new music. I think it's a pretty cool time.
Re: Which do you feel is most likley
Bono wrote:Ali wrote:What is there really to admit? None of us have any clue how often a melody pops into Axl's head when he's tinkering around on the piano, how often he actually works a melody and chord progression into something more like a fully formed song.
None of us even know if it is even Axl's plan to release CD-era material for the next record.
Ali
None of know anything for a fact Ali. It doesn't take a genius to understand what my point was but I'll spell it out for you. I was saying most of us might be affraid to admit that there is a POSSIBILITY that Axl's creative juices aren't really there anymore. If you don't believe that fine but there is the possibility of it. I don't know what melodies Axl works on in his spare time just like you don't know if he works on anything so....
Oh, I understand. But, I think it is so ridiculous that it isn't even worth considering. At ANY given time, an artist could be "tapped" creatively. This could happen after one song, one album, one decade of work. Is it possibly theoretically? Yes, it always is. But, there's nothing to suggest that. We wouldn't be the ones to know that regardless. So, there is nothing really to admit, when it's always possible and we have no way of knowing one way or another.
Ali
I understand not wanting to believe it, but how could you say there is "nothing to suggest that"? I don't mean that rhetorically, I really would like to know.
He's released 15 songs in the last 21 years. That simple fact suggests it. Add onto that that we know a lot of those 15 songs existed for a long time before being released.
For the record I hope it isn't true, but there's plenty to suggest the possiblity.
Re: Which do you feel is most likley
Olorin wrote:3.
I'm thinking most of the CD sessions will be scrapped now. They are supposed to be more electronic and experimental than the first album was,and I just cant see that direction anymore from a GNR/Axl that is falling back to the cliche skulls n tits type band merchendising and who dust off 2 ancient AC/DC songs to pad out their live sets.
I think they will keep whatever traditional rockers they have in the vault and add new ones with this line up. Fuck knows when though, everyone is showing a strong interest in getting back into the studio and Axls determined to keep them out touring.Very, very good post.
People didn't seem to care here, but I was kinda surprised seeing the old, cock rockish posters and flyers for the 2011 and now for the 2012 tour. WTF? This band was supposedly moving to another direction and Axl hoped to take some old fans with him. The whole 'moving on' project turned into a 'moving back to nostalgia' cash grab.
As much as I wasn't a fan of the old new band, with people like BH, Brain, Pitman and NIN's Robin Finck, he seemed to have a 'vision', at least you could believe to some degree that you can expect something from him, something different. You could thing he had a 'vision' or at least some cloudy wish.
But that didn't happen. I think he was too cautious and wanted to mix his old band side (The Blues, Madagascar) with his new interests (CD - grunge, Rhiad - Praxis, Silkworms - NIN/Zombie, OMG - NIN/Manson). The audience was shocked in 2001-2002, so he went back into hiding and tried to make it more 'fan friendly'. Hence the album we got years later had more UYI-style songs with some or more beloved industrial influence added (SoD, TWAT, IRS, Madagascar, Prostitute, CITR, TIL, ITW, Sorry) and some of the survivor industrialish songs - strongly reworked and overproduced, instead of having them in their raw, mean (and airy) Sean Beaven version. The added a lot of guitars to hide the electronica as much as they can. Believe me, CD was supposedly be much more electronica heavy, but Axl decided not to take the risk, sometime in 2007, and added a lot of Ron.Anyway, back to Olorin's original post...what we have today is a clear nostalgia act. They play much more rock and roll, then any post 1993 line-up, with Frank coming from a GN'R tribute band, and DJ being a post-glam guitarist, a typical Sunset Strip guy. Ron can play anything, Richard can be anyone's back-up session musician in any style, Dizzy's another Sunset Strip Survivor, Tommy is Duff 2, the punk that sings a song every show. Chris Pitman is the only guy who doesn't belong to this group. They are playing old AC/DC songs, some 70s punk rockers, David Bowie, AFD, Lies, more UYI. The image is clearly the poor man's classic Guns N' Roses, the flyers, everything. This line-up is as far from the industrial-'experimental' era of the millennium GN'R, as any pre-1996 line-up. Axl wants to revisit the past, for whatever reason, but he wants to revisit it without the actual guys who made the band with him. That's why I see no point in following this band as much as I used to - I have no interest in the 47th performance of Estranged or the 6793rd of SCOM with some guys who aren't Slash. A nostalgia act would get boring in a couple of months, even with the old guys, but replacements' playing nostalgia shows is everything the young Axl fought against. Well, times changed and he lost the hunger. But I don't expect them release the more industrial, electronica heavy CD2. That'd be AC/DC doing that. The band's identity moved back to the 80s.
which is what I don't like...can't say I disagree. Honest opinion. I loved the show I saw but it was pure nostalgia seeing Axl performing well and playing Estranged. Great show, everyone I was with had fun, but I look back and still have regrets about the way things went down and the current state we are in now. I definitely don't dig DJ's 80's sunset strip style. If you are going to do that, just get the real deal. 
The RRHOF means something to me because I was a staunch defender of the band back in the day. When anybody slagged on Gnr for whatever reason in 87-93, I was all over it. So, I have a big soft spot for the original guys and would really like to see a mini reunion for one night. However, I liked Axl's initial vision and thought it could add to the legacy in a different way. Well, it fell apart and now we are left with what Mikka described above. A strange mix of nostalgia and new Gnr. Now, pile on these intimate shows in NY right before the induction and it makes me a little jaded. Just doesn't sit well.
Re: Which do you feel is most likley
I agree with the sentiment of the last few posts. I remember being so excited to see what Axl's vision of Guns N' Roses would be. the old guys were gone but I was fully in support of it. I was, whether some believe that or not. I'm not a negative hater 
I was fucking pumped when they finally debuted for the world in 2002 on MTV and I was stoked for so long for the album. I was at the FIRST show of an actuall NA tour in 10 years(It was a riot), I was at the Hammerstien shows when all of us thought "HERE WE GO!!!" so I did support the idea of Axl doing this and I supported it in a big way. Now I've been quite vocal about not overly liking CD but that doesn't change the fact I'd like to see something new this this band. I haven't really liked a NIN album in years yet I still have hope I will love the next one the way I love PHM because of how talented Trent is. Same with Axl but I never signed up for a trip down memory lane with years and years on end of touring the old hits with no new album. If that's the case reunite with the old guys. I never signed up to hear an interview with Axl where over three years after the release he feels there's still more to give with CD and he's not done with it. WHAT? What fucking band on earth is stubborn enough to feel three years out from it's release that if they just keep promoting it by playing the old band's songs along with some AC/DC songs it'll take off. I must've missed something. Release some new material and allow this band to become it's own entity. So far this band's legacy is the old band's legacy and given it's been 17 years or so that's pretty pathetic.
I just look at it now and scratch my head. And like Madagas said it seems slightly off puting that with the RRHOF induction and possible reunion for one night that Axl has chosen now to go back to their roots and play these "club dates".
Re: Which do you feel is most likley
I gotta come in here and pretty much agree with the general assessment. I said it for the last few years, if there's no intention to build upon Chinese, then what in the fuck are we doing here?
I've been a fan of GN'R, but I only kept going with this legendary fucking joke of a "new band" concept, because I thought there was new music in it.
This isn't a slag of the very talented guys currently in GN'R, and DJ Ashba has been probably the best asset in GN'R since Slash, just for the game changing attitude he brings to the band, even if he is post-glam.
But what in the hell is the point in having a DJ Ashba in the band, if you're not gonna write songs with the guy?
I'm sorry, but I will never get Axl's logic on that. When I saw That Metal Show interview and you've got Axl still wanting to push Chinese, you start wondering after awhile... is this guy delusional? I mean we all know he's crazy, but is he so beyond crazy, that he's slipped into a delusional world where he actually thinks Chinese is his personal Renaissance symphony that nobody likes, but if he pushes it long enough in hundreds of years it'll be seen as a masterpiece, and Axl considered his generation Mozart or Beethoven?
I don't get it. Chinese is DEAD. It's DONE. And so is that entire era that is sitting in the vault. In 2012, a vault full of electronica-industrial songs might as well be having a room filled with a Pog-collection. Nobody gives a fuck.
Axl's obviously made a conscious move to go back and try to pick up where the old Guns left off. The attitude is very similar to the 87-93 period. Like Mikka said, only Pitman is out of place.
And even that is FINE. As long as Axl's intention is to put out NEW music. Even the vault could be re-conceptualized. Buckethead electronica songs could have the melody & riffs lifted, and turned into modern-sleaze rock GN'R songs, without Axl losing the entire song, and thus still having albums and albums on the way.
I'm am TOTALLY fine with that.
But right now, Axl's giving lots of mixed messages, which is totally confusing. On one hand he's taken the image back to the sleaze rock God's of the late 80's, with a new lineup. Which is in complete conflict to the Axl who's doing public interviews talking about how he's "not done with Chinese yet".
Those two things CAN'T co-exist. At the same time he's saying how much, "this is a band, and these guys have worked really hard to be here and for the future", yet he's gonna turn around and potentially perform with the AFD & UYI-studio band for the first time since 1990 & 1991. The current Guns are "the band", yet Axl's gonna do a Ritz 2012 show with the current band, but with direct correlations to the classic AFD & UYI bands who performed Ritz '88 & Ritz '91. The current GN'R want to go into the studio and have been saying that as soon as the tour was completely over, and now that it is and Axl has to deal with that... he thrusts them right back out on the road.
Are any of you confused yet? I know I am.
Bottom line: new album FUCKING NOW or within the year; but if you're gonna just tour and tour and play the hits... just get the old band back. It's utterly fucking pointless to talk about Richard Fortus & Tommy Stinson as "the band", when only 1/3 of Chinese makes up a "thick Chinese set" at a GN'R show today, and you have no intention of further material with this.
Axl thinks the world won't move on... no YOU won't move on.
Question: I know reunionites say this alot, but... is it possible that Axl is too proud to admit that NOBODY has inspired him to write the way Slash, Izzy & Duff did? I wonder if Axl did patch things up with the old guys and knew that option was there, if his attitude towards new music would change if he knew he had Slash, Izzy & Duff backing him on a full-time basis in-studio.
Re: Which do you feel is most likley
Question: I know reunionites say this alot, but... is it possible that Axl is too proud to admit that NOBODY has inspired him to write the way Slash, Izzy & Duff did? I wonder if Axl did patch things up with the old guys and knew that option was there, if his attitude towards new music would change if he knew he had Slash, Izzy & Duff backing him on a full-time basis in-studio.
You know that's a great question and I honestly DO believe that if you were to get them in the studio they'd inspire each other in crazy ways. NOBODY can bring Axl's vison to fruition on guitar the way Slash could(and likely still could). Izzy and Duff brought so much groove to the band as well. Axl doesn't have that right now. I wouldnt' doubt that this is the case. As much as Axl "hates" Slash and "hates" the idea of reuniting it's probably true that he isn't inspired to write the way he was with the old lineup. And its not a slight on the talent of the new band because everyone knows they have tons of it. My opinion would be it boils down to chemistry and being able to read each other and play off each other. It doesn't exist with the new lineup and likely never has. Maybe on stage it looks like they're having a great time but you can get friends who get along and they can look like they have all the chemistry in the world, doesn't mean it actually exists in the creative form.
It would never happen but given the ideas Axl has from the CD era alone and given how on fire Slsh is and some of the great stuff he came out with on his solo album I have no doubt Axl & Slash today woudl blow the fuck outta anything this new era lineup could ever do. That's just my opinion but for me it boils down to chemistry and when I say that I don't say it in a buddy buddy way. I mean it when it comes to the creative process.
Slash has said so many times how hard it is to replace someone like Axl. I think Slash knows it. Axl probably knows it as well but like you asked Axlin12 he's probably too stubborn to admit it.
And don't get me wrong these club shows are cool for the fans but does it not almost seem as though with the RRHOF coming up that Axl's paying homage to the old band by doing it? The timing is all so weird if you ask me. Or maybe it's Axl's way of trying to convince the world that THIS is the definitive Gn'R not the one we'll see inducted to the RRHOF. I don't know.
This is definitely an interesting time but it's at the point where it's peaking. Almost like the interest will boil over and then instantly become the most boring and cliche thing ever if nothing happens. Something has to come within the next 6 months you'd hope.
Re: Which do you feel is most likley
Ali wrote:Bono wrote:None of know anything for a fact Ali. It doesn't take a genius to understand what my point was but I'll spell it out for you. I was saying most of us might be affraid to admit that there is a POSSIBILITY that Axl's creative juices aren't really there anymore. If you don't believe that fine but there is the possibility of it. I don't know what melodies Axl works on in his spare time just like you don't know if he works on anything so....
Oh, I understand. But, I think it is so ridiculous that it isn't even worth considering. At ANY given time, an artist could be "tapped" creatively. This could happen after one song, one album, one decade of work. Is it possibly theoretically? Yes, it always is. But, there's nothing to suggest that. We wouldn't be the ones to know that regardless. So, there is nothing really to admit, when it's always possible and we have no way of knowing one way or another.
Ali
I understand not wanting to believe it, but how could you say there is "nothing to suggest that"? I don't mean that rhetorically, I really would like to know.
He's released 15 songs in the last 21 years. That simple fact suggests it. Add onto that that we know a lot of those 15 songs existed for a long time before being released.
For the record I hope it isn't true, but there's plenty to suggest the possiblity.
Releasing music is not the definitive proof as to whether or not someone is being creative. He could be writing songs all the time. Just because WE haven't heard the music, doesn't mean it does not exist. Whether or not WE have heard the music is not the right metric for whether or not the music exists.
Ali
Re: Which do you feel is most likley
"Nothing to suggest that" and "definitive proof" are totally different things. Someone as supposedly prolific (though secretive) as Axl with his level of output could easily lead someone to ponder if he's tapped out.
I don't think so (yet), and certainly don't hope so, but it isn't at all ludicrous and the thought is certainly not snatched out of thin air. It's one of many potential conclusions whose internal logic is totally sound.
