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apex-twin
 Rep: 199 

Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...

apex-twin wrote:
Cramer wrote:

Build up some buzz, capture the media by blowing them away in more intimate venues across the country.

This, at a hindsight. The Vegas shows were well-received. Had the band fought their way through to legitimacy by dropping an album and doggedly touring behind it, they would've been accepted. Take a look at how the DJ-lineup was gradually accepted as a pretty solid rock group, give or take the uneven frontman. The Bucket-era band, had they'd grown their tour legs, would've burned their way across the country.

But, Axl deprived them the fighting chance. That was a real cop-out. Gonna quote myself from some months back.


I think Axl's been singled out as the sole cause for the delays up to late 2001 for no good reason. All things point out to him being ready to mix the Beavan album, but Interscope head Jimmy Iovine, an even more notorious trend-chaser than Axl, got cold feet. His reaction would've made Axl more insecure about releasing CD, coupled with the lukewarm reception of OMG.

A bigger mystery is what the hell happened with the album from 2002 onwards, with Axl as the designated driver. Instead of just mixing and packaging the work done with RTB and Zutaut, Axl commissioned Marco Beltrami and Paul Buckmaster to work with orchestrations on songs. To me, that's a mindbending moment - all we know adds up to the conclusion that the album could've been released by the 2002 tour.

They had the RTB mixes, the works. Axl would've done himself an immense favour by letting the first album drop there and then, while fiddling around with the second one for the next 2 years, if he'd like.

I'd really like to know that part of the story. Axl seemed out of place on the '02 tour. While he said he was touring against his better judgement on the UYI's, that goes double for the ill-fated ClearChannel tour. Something had really gotten underneath his skin since completing mixes the year before.

James
 Rep: 628 

Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...

James wrote:

Buzz, sounds like you are starting to soften a bit on your position regarding this era of the band.  Is Bucket's solo material you have that assortment of tracks I sent you years ago or did you venture deeper into his discography? I don't remember that track list but it was some killer stuff and figured you'd appreciate some of it.

I also regret not getting to see them and those that did should consider themselves lucky. Just like in 06, the show close to me in 02 was cancelled.

Bri is right...Bucket was primed to be GNR's Slash of the 21st century. It's such a shame how it turned out.  Would have loved to see a massive promo blitz with Axl, Tommy, Bucket, and even Finck out there doing interviews and shit. That lineup is just so unique and was begging to be showcased.

Supa, you say he was struggling at Rio but I think that is the best show in new GNR's history. It's the only show post 91 I have watched multiple times. You're right he is not at his peak there obviously but the band is on fire.

misterID
 Rep: 460 

Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...

misterID wrote:
James Lofton wrote:

Anyone can jump in here obviously but I'm curious to see the opinions of people like ID, apex, sky dog, atari,etc. who were huge fans of 2001-02 era...


IF a reunion does happen or it's more silence, what are your thoughts in retrospect on what should have happened with that lineup compared to what did actually happen in the final chapter?

02 was the perfect band but the worst timing for a debut. I now kind of regret he didn't just stay in the studio another few years as it was clear Axl was not mentally there to lead this band, or be on road, or even be out on the public stage tbh. 2006 was Axl's year, he was on, mentally, physically and vocally, and the biggest tragedy was that Bucket wasn't there. That was his real opportunity, not 02, and taking them out when he did ruined that line up. The band did not like each other and I don't think they knew how to deal with the diverse personalities or the reality of being in a band with Axl. It was my favorite line up but was a terrible moment to move forward.

James
 Rep: 628 

Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...

James wrote:

His reaction would've made Axl more insecure about releasing CD, coupled with the lukewarm reception of OMG.

I know that song has its fans but it shouldn't have been released and if he did wish to release it, not in that manner.  One song on a soundtrack, no video, other than that interview no promotion, no one knew much about the lineup, no official pics,etc. Regardless of the quality of the song this wasn't how to unveil new GNR. The way the unveiling of this song happened and the aftermath for better or worse was a sign of things to come.

This was the opening phase of the Chinese Democracy saga and what an opener it was...

James
 Rep: 628 

Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...

James wrote:
misterID wrote:

02 was the perfect band but the worst timing for a debut. I now kind of regret he didn't just stay in the studio another few years as it was clear Axl was not mentally there to lead this band, or be on road, or even be out on the public stage tbh. 2006 was Axl's year, he was on, mentally, physically and vocally, and the biggest tragedy was that Bucket wasn't there. That was his real opportunity, not 02, and taking them out when he did ruined that line up. The band did not like each other and I don't think they knew how to deal with the diverse personalities or the reality of being in a band with Axl. It was my favorite line up but was a terrible moment to move forward.

It would have been better with Bucket in 06 for sure but I don't see how it really changes much. The album didn't come out then either although its a shame we'll never get to hear Bucket perform those CD songs in a live setting(IRS solo, TWAT outro,etc.).


Yeah it ruined that lineup for sure and proof of that was when Dizzy admitted late 05/early 06 that the lineup had not been together since that last show in 02. That speaks volumes about that silent period.

TheSundanceKid
 Rep: 30 

Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...

I saw Guns in 2002 in Toronto at the ACC and 06 in NYC.

Bucket was the highlight. Axl sure wasn't that stylish, but, he sounded great. Watching him run around was amazing.

Then Buckethead left and it felt different, maybe, he'd come back. It didn't happen. Robin was still there it felt all right. Once he left, I threw in the towel.

Either reunite or get Buckethead and the Finck Tank back. No half-measure Axl.

Time is wasting.

Likely won't be able to do what you could have done in 2002. I'd respect the band more if he brought back Bucket and Finck. And finish what he was going to do with an incredibly talented line up.

It seems highly unlikely. As the past is a great indication.

Axl Rose reminds me of a Brian Wilson figure. Extremely talented, but self-doubt and depression have derailed the guy.

Maybe it is a good time to call Buckethead up, after all dude has been through a lot.

Hard Times should be a the follow up's name. A nod to the great Charles Dickens book and the amount of time and effort spent on the album.

supaplex
 Rep: 57 

Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...

supaplex wrote:
James Lofton wrote:

Supa, you say he was struggling at Rio but I think that is the best show in new GNR's history. It's the only show post 91 I have watched multiple times. You're right he is not at his peak there obviously but the band is on fire.

Yeah, it was a good show but i still remember the volumes of his mic and the other instruments being all over the place. Him being very angry with the sound guy and messing about with his in-ear monitor. And he was dressed like somebody took him away from his computer in his comfy home clothes and put him on stage smile
These things make me think it was all rushed and unprepared on his part. The band was on top of it mostly but i think he wasn't up to par.

2001-2002 Wow! I can't believe it's been that long ago!

elevendayempire
 Rep: 84 

Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...

I've always thought that if Axl had gone out at the VMAs looking and sounding like he did in 2006, it would've made a huge difference. And if they'd not tried to squash two old songs and one new one into a medley, and just led with Better or Chinese Democracy or TWAT, they could've come out of the gate swinging.

Picture Axl belting out WTTJ as he did at Rock Am Ring: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BLEHLoc-G_M
instead of his uneven vocals at the VMAs. It would've made all the difference in the world. The music industry's all about image and perception, and the perception in 2002 was: squeaky-voiced, fat Axl wearing hockey jerseys to cover his gut. The bearded, braided 2006 Axl with the vocal coaching he'd had ahead of that tour would've turned opinions around in a heartbeat.

A Private Eye
 Rep: 77 

Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...

^ I agree completely although I think the very fact Axl was so much better in 06 was because HE was ready and wanted to be there. There's no substitute for hunger and desire and he had it in spades in 06, in 02 he seemed mildly sedated.

buzzsaw
 Rep: 426 

Re: Question to fans of 01-02 lineup...

buzzsaw wrote:
James Lofton wrote:

Buzz, sounds like you are starting to soften a bit on your position regarding this era of the band.  Is Bucket's solo material you have that assortment of tracks I sent you years ago or did you venture deeper into his discography? I don't remember that track list but it was some killer stuff and figured you'd appreciate some of it.

I also regret not getting to see them and those that did should consider themselves lucky. Just like in 06, the show close to me in 02 was cancelled.

I've actually softened up on a lot of things over the last few years.  I still enjoy what I enjoy, but life's too short to get bothered by the details you can't control.

I actually downloaded a ton of his stuff.  Some I liked, some not as much.  I never questioned the guy's talent...even back then.  I always felt he was better on his own than trying to be structured by Axl or within Axl's vision.  I think he was wasted in GnR...not just because they did so little, but because of the way he was utilized.

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